Mini 388: DOOMsville II {Game Over!}

[MrBuddyLee]

Adele, saying I have a free pass with three votes on me is laughable.

I also think you're doing a magnificent job of dodging my questions about an SK daykiller. You know perfectly well the reasoning by which I arrive at that conclusion, and yet you try to paint me as anti-town because I think daykilling Ozy was WAY sketchy, and added to the daykill of Patrick, it looks like we have an SK, which means that YES, the killing of Ozy and Patrick is anti-town.

If I die, I suggest you all look carefully at Adele... she's far and away the #1 SK candidate at the moment. I still think kilmenator or turbo are the final nightkilling scum.

Sure, I'll claim if anyone else buys your arguments. You won't be happy with the results, but meh, it's better than a lynch.

[kilmenator]

If I die, I suggest you all look carefully at Adele... she's far and away the #1 SK candidate at the moment. I still think kilmenator or turbo are the final nightkilling scum.

So then, you are suggesting that there are two more scum and a SK? The game would be a little unbalanced then wouldnt it. Would you mind sharing how you came to the conclusion that Adele is the SK? Because I dont follow your reasoning. I am undecided of whether or not we have and SK or a Vig, because ozy was obviously a good lynch, since he was scum. You seem to be forgetting that part, he was scum. And either he was lynched then came back as scum, or possibly recruited.

I just looked back at what MM said about ozy/autoload, and it is interesting, he was obviously pro-town to begin with and some how turned scum, which would mean that he was probably recruited. MBL targetted ozy N1. Which would lead me to believe that MBL is probably the recruiter, because I know he targetted him. It wouldnt make sense for him to RB ozy, being that ozy was unlynchable, and he possibly could have been the doc, but I dont think he is. I cant really think of another role he possibly could have.

[Adele]

Adele, saying I have a free pass with three votes on me is laughable.

I also think you're doing a magnificent job of dodging my questions about an SK daykiller. You know perfectly well the reasoning by which I arrive at that conclusion, and yet you try to paint me as anti-town because I think daykilling Ozy was WAY sketchy, and added to the daykill of Patrick, it looks like we have an SK, which means that YES, the killing of Ozy and Patrick is anti-town.

Fine, I'll say it: you're assuming the person who killed Patrick (an action which hurt the town) is the same person who killed Ozy (an action which helped the town).

[MrBuddyLee]

because ozy was obviously a good lynch, since he was scum.

This is not a logical conclusion. I didn't see that it made sense to do it. The outcome was a surprise.

[kilmenator]

The fact is, some people obviously thought that it was a good possibility that he turned scum, I being one of them. Just because you were suprised by the outcome does not mean others did not expect that as the outcome, or suspect that ozy actually turned scum. Therefore, maybe the person who killed ozy really thought there was a real possibility that he could have been scum and wanted to give it a shot. Which IMO is a protown play.

[MrBuddyLee]

Well, put it this way.

If the people thinking that were town, they should have said so in town discussion, right? "I think Ozy's scum."

Look back and see if anyone did that. I don't think they did, other than you. So when he was killed, it's a sign that someone sneaky did it, implying that the daykiller is an SK.

And I still hold that the reason he was killed is because he can't be lynched, and thus a threat to scum of any flavor. Right before he was ganked I pointed that out and BOOM, the SK nailed him.

Adele, before I claim please let me know if this line of reasoning makes sense.

[Turbovolver]

Turbo- The problem I see with going after geraintm, is that fact that he is cleared by SL. And we have no reason to believe that SL isnt telling the truth, therefore, I dont think we should go after a cleared person. I dont like the fact that you are going after him even though he is cleared, that really sets off my scumdar. I would feel much better if you were going after those not cleared, even if it was me. We need to focus on catching scum tonight, not a cleared townie.

A cleared townie?

How are you so sure that ShadowLurker can be trusted?
How are you so sure that geraintm is not an investigation-immune SK, for example?

We need to focus on catching scum tonight, not a cleared townie.

FOS: kilmenator

. This makes no sense in the townie mindset - town always want to catch scum. What else are townies going to focus on rather than catching scum?

And what, you think I'm deliberately focusing on catching cleared townies? That implies you think I am scum, which leaves me with the question of why you think it will help to tell me we need to focus on catching townies.

It makes no sense for a townie to say this.

And we have no reason to believe that SL isnt telling the truth

We have no particular reason to believe SL is telling the truth, either, apart from perhaps the lack of counterclaim. You cant just rule out possibilities, especially when they impact the alignments of so many players.

[Turbovolver]

I didn't daykill nobody. And I thought autoload was a modkill because he wasn't posting. I'll have to go reread that.

Is that double negative deliberate?

I am not responsible for any daykills. Better?

[Adele]

well,
1)

If the people thinking that were town, they should have said so in town discussion, right? "I think Ozy's scum."

People discuss things openly with the town to ty to influence the lynch. If someone's tring to decide whether to vog someone or not, they aren't going to muse about it at length and make their role obvious to all, are they? That's like a cop saying in twilight "I really don't trust chaotic_diablo" then first thing next morning saying "oh I changed my mind I now 100% do trust him". Are they sneaky for not saying that, or merely non-stupid?

2)

And I still hold that the reason he was killed is because he can't be lynched, and thus a threat to scum of any flavor. Right before he was ganked I pointed that out and BOOM, the SK nailed him.

Looking back, I can't see where you said that. I can see where you said unlynchable scum's tough on the town, but not this. Seems pretty relevant to me.

so:

Adele, before I claim please let me know if this line of reasoning makes sense.

No, it doesn't. If you show me that quote, it'll make some sense, but still not nearly enough.

[MrBuddyLee]

I'm more the type of vig who looks for town approval. If no one but me thinks a guy's scum, I have to be pretty confident in order to kill someone and randomize the game like that.

I'll look into those quotes, maybe I got confused but we'll see.

[kilmenator]

Turbo- what I was saying is that MBL looks a whole lot more like scum to me that geraintm, and geraintm is "hypothetically" cleared. Being that we have no reason not to trust SL, I would say that we should trust SL until we are led astray. Right now, we have three people uncleared, you, me and MBL. To me right now MBL is by far the most scummy. Unless MBL has an amazing claim which can not be refuted, I would venture to say he is scum. If we lynch him tonight tomorrow, you or I can be investigated, it doesnt matter to me which. Whoever is investigated, if they turn up innocent we lynch the other. Hopefully this does not put us in a lynch or lose situation. Right now, I would bet we have one scum and maybe an SK. Since we have had no night kills thus far, we are in much better shape, hopefully we can keep that up tonight.

[Turbovolver]

Please tell me why ShadowLurker being mafia or SK is so impossible that it shouldn't even be considered.

Also thanks for reminding me hunting scum is good. I almost forgot >.>

[geraintm]

unvote

the conversation with MBL is interesting enough that i don't want him at an official one vote from lynch. But MBL, please don't think i am backing off you, i still want you to tell me what you did night 1

Look back and see if anyone did that. I don't think they did, other than you. So when he was killed, it's a sign that someone sneaky did it, implying that the daykiller is an SK.

i believe i wanted to lynch Ozy on Day 2, but i got jumped all over saying it was a bad idea

Turbo, all i am getting from you is someone going around creaating sandstorms to blind people. you are not joining in with your throughts on the main topic of conversation, instead chatting with me or Kilm.

Question that is bothering me - how likely is it that the mafia could be daykillers?

[Turbovolver]

Given the apparent lack of kills, daykilling mafia actually makes sense as a possibility. I hadn't thought of that...

Turbo, all i am getting from you is someone going around creaating sandstorms to blind people. you are not joining in with your throughts on the main topic of conversation, instead chatting with me or Kilm.

I'm hardly avoiding the main topics of conversation, though it is true I am more interested in behaviour than in what seems to be the rest of you milling around playing outguess the mod (or mislead the town, in the case of the scum).

Is this your way of avoiding my accusations? Trying to discredit the person behind the arguments, and not the arguments themselves?

[Machiavellian-Mafia]

It's time for the first Vote Count of DOOM

2 - MrBuddyLee (kilmenator, ShadowLurker)

1 - geraintm (turbovolver)

Not Voting: Norinel, Adele, MrBuddyLee, geraintm

Remember with 7 alive it takes 4 to lynch!

[Adele]

I'm more the type of vig who looks for town approval. If no one but me thinks a guy's scum, I have to be pretty confident in order to kill someone and randomize the game like that.

I'll look into those quotes, maybe I got confused but we'll see.

I don't understand. I thought from this your prior post that you just wanted to clear up one issue and then you'd claim, not stall some more. Check it out:

Adele, before I claim please let me know if this line of reasoning makes sense.

My patience is really starting to wear thin. It's a double standard.

[kilmenator]

Adele, on a side note, can I tell you that wikipedia is NOT a teacher's friend. I had a kid look up Andrew Carnegie, for PA history, fourth grader, by the way. See what it says about him... it will give you a good laugh, especially with the perspective that a fourth grade girl found it! Ps. It has something to do with "Mr. Steele"

Also waiting and been waiting on a MBL claim.

[Adele]

Adele, on a side note, can I tell you that wikipedia is NOT a teacher's friend. I had a kid look up Andrew Carnegie, for PA history, fourth grader, by the way. See what it says about him... it will give you a good laugh, especially with the perspective that a fourth grade girl found it! Ps. It has something to do with "Mr. Steele"

I couldn't see it. Tell me later, though, because this is pretty O/T.

[kilmenator]

Sorry, I had to tell the story, because it is so funny!

In PA history my kids were assigned to look up 15 people who have had an impact on PA history. ONe of them was Andrew Carnegie. A girl, the loudest girl in the class, googled him and the first site that came up was wikipedia. All of the sudden, I hear that is talking about he pee pee. I quickly ran up to the computer covered her eyes and closed the browser. Later I went back to the site and looked at it. It said that Carnegie was known with the women because of the enourmous size of his d**k, that was affectionately named Mr. Steele. HAHA

MBL- why have you gone from posting every other post to not posting?

[geraintm]

MBL- why have you gone from posting every other post to not posting?

agree, i unvoted because i thought we were all getting somewhere and didn't want someone to silence you prematurly. i unvoted and you have gone quiet, very disappointing

[MrBuddyLee]

So my claiming is the only thing that'll move this game forward?

Man you guys are lazy.

[geraintm]

So my claiming is the only thing that'll move this game forward?

Man you guys are lazy.

i am afraid with what i can work out that is going on, i need to know what you did night one.

[Norinel]

Norinel, can you please summarize your thoughts on the gamestate and various alignments? What's your take on SL and his three cleared individuals? What's your take on the daykills? If I get lynched and turn up town, do you think you have a chance to salvage the game at that point, and if not, why aren't you trying harder to get today's lynch right?

ShadowLurker I'm not entirely sold on. Early on, he pretty much did the whole play deliberately annoying to spark discussion strategy, which I personally can't stand but doesn't inform too much about alignment. I think it's less likely that scum could've plotted out a daycop gambit so early and not have something ridiculous come out against him yet, so I'm slightly leaning towards him being what he says he is, but naive is a strong possibility too. I've been thinking that we can write off his innocents for today's lynch, but not give anyone a free pass tomorrow.

With regards to the daykills, if I were a day vig, which I'm not, I'd be a lot more receptive to what people are saying to inform my kill choice. If possible, I'd even daykill the person the town would be about to lynch, in order to basically give the town a bonus lynch every day. The autoload kill in particular I don't see as anything close to that, and I don't know why a dayvig would do so unless they had a very peculiar restriction.

And even though you didn't ask, my take on you is that you're either puting off a doc claim as long as possible in hopes the scum might not hit you tonight or trying to figure out how much other people might know to fake a slightly twisted doc. Starting with two scum that can recruit once instead of kill isn't too out of whack, and recruiting the most cleared person on the first Night is a reasonable strategy when you lost the GF at random Day 1.

I'll admit I haven't been putting as much into this game as should be, which is largely a result of out-of-game factors. It didn't help when my first full read after replacing in gave me no context at all about why the current bandwagons were as they were, but there's nothing I can do about that except try to invest more going forward.

[geraintm]

[quote="Norinel"]



And even though you didn't ask, my take on you is that you're either puting off a doc claim as long as possible in hopes the scum might not hit you tonight or trying to figure out how much other people might know to fake a slightly twisted doc. Starting with two scum that can recruit once instead of kill isn't too out of whack, and recruiting the most cleared person on the first Night is a reasonable strategy when you lost the GF at random Day 1.
quote]
norinel, is what you are saying above that you would like MBL to explain himself too? or are you not asking him to do that?
i ask as MBL was waiting for a 4th person to ask for that before he did...

[Adele]

So my claiming is the only thing that'll move this game forward?

Man you guys are lazy.

It's not laziness on

our

part, but protracted postponements on

your

part to the point that we don't seem willing to put up with it any longer.