Mini 396: ChatMafia Mafia; GAME OVER

[Twito]

I'd make a scummy/townie people list inspired by Zindie but it would be pretty much the same as before.

[al_kohaulec]

al_kohaulec: An updated

Vote Count:

AngusHutchsky

- 5 - Jack, Twito, Y, ChannelDelibird, HurriKaty

Y

- 2 - AngusHutchsky, Coron

Jack

- 1 - Zindaras

Those who have forgotten they're in the chat room

- 3 - milkman, AniX, draygn_mage

11 in the room, so 6 to kick somebody out of the chat.

Tenative deadline set for Feb. 25 8 PM PST.

And I'm still looking for a replacement. If any of you know anybody who's interested, please tell me or ask the person to talk to me.

[Zindaras]

I don't like Zindaras defense of angus. It looks like either defending scum buddy or "see guys I told you he was innocent".

More proof that we should definitely be lynching Jack, with this great "Damned if you do, damned if you don't" argument.

[draygn_mage]

studying for an accounting exam will post some content asap.

[Jack]

I don't like Zindaras defense of angus. It looks like either defending scum buddy or "see guys I told you he was innocent".

More proof that we should definitely be lynching Jack, with this great "Damned if you do, damned if you don't" argument.

No, you wouldn't be damned if you hadn't.

[Zindaras]

I don't like Zindaras defense of angus. It looks like either defending scum buddy or "see guys I told you he was innocent".

More proof that we should definitely be lynching Jack, with this great "Damned if you do, damned if you don't" argument.

No, you wouldn't be damned if you hadn't.

You're basically saying that I'm scum regardless of Angus's alignment.

[Jack]

I don't like Zindaras defense of angus. It looks like either defending scum buddy or "see guys I told you he was innocent".

More proof that we should definitely be lynching Jack, with this great "Damned if you do, damned if you don't" argument.

No, you wouldn't be damned if you hadn't.

You're basically saying that I'm scum regardless of Angus's alignment.

Your comment is scummy regardless. It's like putting on the hammer vote, could be scummy whether the person is town or mafia, in different ways.

[ChannelDelibird]

@ Jack - I disagree with your anti-Zindaras feeling. He seems pretty town to me in general and the defense of Angus that you've taken offense to is sensible. I do have to admit that there is a

slight

nagging feeling in the back of my mind that we shouldn't be so hasty in lynching Angus, and Zindy's caution is valid.

In fact, I'm going to

unvote

. I'm not comfortable with Angus at -1 right now, although given some more time I might go back.

[Zindaras]

You're immediately saying it's scummy. Using logic, you could also simply state that I'm town who's defending someone he thinks is town, which is also independent of Angus's alignment.

I don't like your immediate interpretation of it being scummy.

[Twito]

Zindys comment could be scummy or townish regardless of Angusses allignment. Like Jack pointed out it could be defending scumbuddy or "I told you he was innocent" but also it could be townish as Zindy pointed out himself as he could be town defending someone he thinks is town.
It really only depends on the way you look at it.

I'm still kinda feeling this Angus lynch especially when compared to the counterwagons atm. I kinda do find Y scummy aswell for his past behavior but if Angus turns up scum Y is basicly forgiven in my book so I'd like to see where this leads. Then again if Angus is town Y is pretty much in the same light he is now.
And I just love Jack he couldn't possibly be scum and it's not like I would vote him if he were.

From other people without votes on them I feel strongest ex-StallingChamp.

[Jack]

You're immediately saying it's scummy. Using logic, you could also simply state that I'm town who's defending someone he thinks is town, which is also independent of Angus's alignment.

I don't like your immediate interpretation of it being scummy.

I think it's scummy because I don't see any reason to doubt Angus's scumness. But I guess you and ChannelD feel different.

[Zindaras]

Because we might as well wait until tomorrow. Angus should presend his role or not forget to send his role in and then it's all fixed again.

We're pretty gosh-darn far from lylo, there's no reason to speedlynch the guy.

Add to that the fact that I feel that many of the players who are voting him are scummy and the fact that I feel that if Angus really was scum there'd be a stronger counter-wagon/counter-argument, I really do feel that there are enough reasons to believe that Angus is, in fact, town.

[Jack]

Well, there's only one scum other than angus, correct?

We'll have better odds tomorrow (assuming nightkill(s)) of lynching scum, and a possibility of cop finding scum. Today, I don't think we'll do much. Especially since deadline is in two days...

[Zindaras]

No, you see, I find a couple of people suspicious, they're all on Angus's lynch. I don't find Angus particularly suspicious, though he would do well to finish the list I requested.

[HurriKaty]

Because we might as well wait until tomorrow. Angus should presend his role or not forget to send his role in and then it's all fixed again.

Might as well waiting until tomorrow is giving him another chance to forget, and personally, I dont feel chances should be given out like candy.

[ChannelDelibird]

Because we might as well wait until tomorrow. Angus should presend his role or not forget to send his role in and then it's all fixed again.

Might as well waiting until tomorrow is giving him another chance to forget, and personally, I dont feel chances should be given out like candy.

And if he is telling the truth about his role, then there's no way he's going to forget twice.

[ChannelDelibird]

Mod:

could we get an extension on the deadline please? Particularly with the probable AniX-replacement, and stuff. Also, could we get a prod on milkman?

[Y]

Well, there's only one scum other than angus, correct?

Actually, no. Not for sure, at least. Most of us don't know how many mafiosos there are and can't be sure AH is 100% scum.

Do you know something we don't?

FoS Jack.

[ChannelDelibird]

WARNING: This post is quite long.

Post by Post Analysis: Jack

(spontaneous decision)

Post 14: votes dragyn_mage for saying he didn't remember how to play the game. Which isn't what he said.

Post 26: votes milkman for not counting correctly and says "you seem to be making a serious accusation when there isn't much to go on". Looking back, I don't think it's as big a deal as Jack makes out.

Post 34: Atones for 26.

Post 69: You expect him to say that he's NOT pro-town? WTF?

Post 79: Translation: IF YOU DON'T CLAIM A POWER ROLE YOU WILL DIE!

Post 94: I don't really have a problem with this.

Post 99: "I don't see what was dangerous about my lynch-2 vote". Naive, but I don't have a problem with lynch-2.

Post 110: not important.

Post 112: Votes StallingChamp for his ridiculous Twito crusade. Entirely valid.

Post 114: Equally valid.

Post 125: Votes Coron for lurking despite StallingChamp being a very appropriate place for his vote. I don't get it.

Post 128: So now you're sure that Angus is innocent?

Post 130: "I can only vote for one person!!!!! ...who were the other lurkers?" Asks why voting for lurkers when the game is dying down is scummy. Answer: because prods are better and StallingChamp is scummy.

Post 132: Overreacts to Zindaras.

Post 136: "you can't notice any irregularities if people don't post". So you get them prodded/replaced. Just because people aren't posting doesn't mean that if they were, they'd be scummy.

Post 137: See above.

Post 138: "Just because townies do it doesn't mean scum don't." That's not an argument. We look for scummy things, not things that could be just as townish, if not more, as they are scummy.

Post 140: And if you do single someone out, you're ignoring someone potentially just as scummy.

Post 142: "Why is it scummy that I haven't unvoted Coron?" Because you feel he's more likely scum than StallingChamp, for example - you are voting for someone who

might

post something scummy ahead of someone who has. It's also that you're singling him out.

Post 144: to Zindaras - "and you have done what?" Pointed out your irregularities.

Post 146: Is wrong.

Post 148: It's not about whether you feel it's irregular

for you

, it's an irregular action. There were multiple people not posting. You only mentioned Coron. That is irregular, because some are pressured and some are left doing what they were before.

Post 150: "I haven't treated the similar cases at all...yet." Exactly!
"Why is that scummy?" Because you could be trying to protect a lurking scumbuddy by singling out another lurker, or attacking a townie you felt was dangerous.

Post 152: I don't agree with your wording here, particularly as you say lurking makes it less likely to get "correct cop investigations". WTF? You can investigate somone just as competently if they are not posting as if they are.

Post 155: Again reiterates his rubbish defense against his irregularity and tries to get Zindaras lynched for it.

Post 159: Tries to liken his singling out of Coron for lurking to Zindaras' singling out of Jack as scummiest player by voting for him, which is completely different.

Post 160: Goes back to voting Coron, essentially for lurking again.

Post 185: Not important.

Post 207: Says HurriKaty looks like scum looking for an easy Twito lynch after she said he could be a Jester. That's not an easy lynch! A Jester is the last person you want to lynch.

Post 217: I don't really see the importance in Angus saying what he's going to draw beforehand...

Post 224: States the obvious. "So you think he could could be a scum artist? But that would mean he isn't a confirmed innocent at all." This is one of, if not the main, reason I was voting for Angus, because I can't see us just being given a confirmed innocent player.

Post 237: Tells Y off for suggesting that we lynch a lurker. Cough cough.

Post 255: Explains that he voted Angus for hinting at a power role. I don't think it was

very

scummy, as I've seen pro-town players do that sort of thing to get us to back off and not expose their role, which can be helpful. I do agree that it's iffy.

Post 266: Encourages HurriKaty to post whose opinions she agrees with instead of not posting because she hasn't got any new content. I generally agree with this.

Post 271: meh.

Post 278: I do feel you are making too much out of Coron not posting 'tomorrow' as he had said he would. This is the kind of thing I do all the time, and I can't be scum in every game. Zindy's following post is good...

Post 280: ...making this a bit silly. I really do think that half the reason you're attacking Zindy is that he doesn't agree wholeheartedly with you.

Post 297: Is overly harsh on HurriKaty, but as I agree with the case on HurriKaty at the time I don't think it's anything scummy.

Post 304: Makes a good vote on HurriKaty.

Post 306: unvotes Katy for doing what she was asked to do. Fair enough.

Post 307: Makes a valid observation about StallingChamp's continued scumminess but doesn't vote. ?

Post 330: Votes MC and asks for AniX to speak up. Exactly how I felt at the time.

Post 335: I commented on this at the time - he's confused by my FoS of Angus for bandwagoning MC.

Post 349: Votes Angus at the start of Day 2. I've made clear my stance on him earlier today.

Post 354: Angus case...

Post 378: Itching to lynch Angus.

Post 381: "The only reason not to vote [Angus] is that tomorrow could prove it without a doubt."

...EXACTLY.

Post 390: Claims we'd lynch Angus tomorrow if we let him live today, which obviously would not be the case if he's telling the truth.

Post 400: Brings up a point against Angus that I came across doing this PBPA. Angus forgetting to send in a picture choice might have been coupled with forgetting to send in a kill choice. However, that would require a lurky mafia partner, unless he was in a two-person group, which is not

impossible

...

Post 403: "Why did you point it out?" Because you in particular are trying to get him lynched quickly and he's trying to survive. That's as pro-town as it is pro-scum.

Post 407: "I don't think we're getting anywhere". Translation: "LYNCHLYNCHLYNCHANGUS"

Post 411: Same.

Post 424: As I said a few posts ago, I disagree with this.

Post 429: And this.

Post 431: And this.

Post 435: "I don't see any reason to doubt his scumminess". Please look back at your own Post 381 in which you do.

Post 437: Jumps to conclusions about number of scum, and reiterates his LYNCHLYNCHLYNCH viewpoint.

Apologies for how bloody long that was.

Now, at the end of all that, I'm going to

vote: Jack

, principally for his singling out of Coron as a lurker, especially when StallingChamp deserved pressure, and for trying to rush an Angus lynch. And, indeed, for all the little things I posted above.

[Zindaras]

Oh, by the way, I wanted to point out these two things as well, even though CDB's half-pointed them out:

1) Jack totally bandwagoned Angus Day 1. This is mostly for if we lynch Angus and he turns up town and I die tomorrow, but meh.

2) Jack indeed singled out Coron as a lurker. May I point out that Masterchief was also a lurker, and scum to boot?

[ChannelDelibird]

2) Jack indeed singled out Coron as a lurker. May I point out that Masterchief was also a lurker, and scum to boot?

Good catch, I'd briefly forgotten about MC when I was discussing the possibility of protecting a lurking scumbuddy.

[al_kohaulec]

I'm going to remove the deadline temporarily.

Milkman will be prodded.

I am still working on the replacement issue.

Know that when deadline comes back up, it will be anywhere from 24-48 hours from when I post it.

[Twito]

Because we might as well wait until tomorrow. Angus should presend his role or not forget to send his role in and then it's all fixed again.

Yes he could prove that he has a picture painting role if we give him another day. But what if it's a one shot scum ability that does something? What if it's alltogether a scum role? And what if there is no picture tomorrow and all we get is an explanation that he didn't have time for mafia?

And if he is telling the truth about his role, then there's no way he's going to forget twice.

Yeah since he had 1 week last time and didn't have any time for mafia. He didn't say he forgot he said he didn't have time.

Personally I didn't find Angus suspicious before as I've stated multiple times but right now he is on top of my scumlist. I wouldn't count out the possibility of 2 person scum group especially if they have special abilities such as sending in a picture that does something and makes you "confirmed". For that we would just have to wait if there is a picture tomorrow and what happens with the picture.

Post 99: "I don't see what was dangerous about my lynch-2 vote". Naive, but I don't have a problem with lynch-2.
Post 150: "I haven't treated the similar cases at all...yet." Exactly!
"Why is that scummy?" Because you could be trying to protect a lurking scumbuddy by singling out another lurker, or attacking a townie you felt was dangerous.

These 2 I find scummy about Jack but then again he was one of the only players backing me up on StallingChamp.

2) Jack indeed singled out Coron as a lurker. May I point out that Masterchief was also a lurker, and scum to boot?

Now that's a good point I could almost vote for.

[Zindaras]

We shouldn't lynch Angus because he can still prove his role and we have a better lynch in Jackieboy.

[Twito]

Still not convinced. I'm drifting between whether it's better to wait another day with Augus and see if he posts the picture and if he really has some ability and if he has he hasn't claimed it making it scum ability. And I'm not sure I wanna see the effect of scumability rather than lynch the scum. But on the other hand I didn't find Augus suspicious before.
I'd still like to see that StallingChamp replacement aswell.