[OLD] Open Setup Ideas and Discussion

[IceGuy]

Trade School

3 Mafia Goons (with daytalk; their kill comes with an RB which takes priority over all other actions)
10 Vanilla Townies

Every Day, all VTs can decide whether to learn a new trade. Trades to learn are JK and Tracker. If they decide to learn a trade, they get the corresponding night action the next Night. They "forget" what they have learned immediately afterwards, so they only get one shot and need to learn again if they want another.

If no player decides to learn a trade, the Mafia gets one NK that works on any player. Otherwise, they get as many kills as players have learned trades, but they only work on the players that have learned.

[Elyse]

First Impressions

2 Mafia Goons
1 1-shot Mafia Strongman
3 Compulsory Seraph Knights
1 Odd-night Vigilante
1 1-shot Cop
5 Vanilla Townies

Daystart. On Night 1, the Seraph Knights must choose one person to protect for the rest of the game. If they protect town, scum can only kill them with a strongman shot, if they kill the Seraph Knight protecting them, or with a lynch. If they protect scum, the vig cannot kill them until the Seraph Knight protecting them dies, or by a lynch.

If a Seraph Knight chooses to protect another Seraph Knight, the protection does not work. They will not be notified if the protection works or not.


There's probably some obvious flaw I'm not seeing but I was looking at the roles on the wiki and Seraph Knight seemed pretty cool, so I thought about incorporating it into a setup.

[JasonWazza]

Town Lynches Strongman D1.

Seraph Knights protect the Vig, Cop and a VT.

Game is completely fucked.

[N]

Why would the strongman claim?

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

Nah, way I think he's thinking is if that possibility happens then game is screwed.

But yeah, why would the cop and vig claim before a lynch?

[JasonWazza]

They don't need to.

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

The seraph knights are compulsory, they do need to unless i'm misunderstanding something.

[JasonWazza]

My thought:

Cop and Vig claim day start, scum have no real motivation to counter claim.

Lynch from the rest, assumedly manage to hit the strong man.

Game is fucked in the anus.

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

umm, you're making several assumptions.

1) You hit the strongman. if this doesn't happen town is kinda screwed, so I don't think people would go this path.
2) the knights are able to co-ordinate their protects. Even if they are, i doubt one of them protects a vt.
3) Scum doesn't counterclaim. If this strategy is so breaking, why would scum not counterclaim?

[JasonWazza]

If the strong man live he is one shot, either he gets rid of the one-shot cop, or the Odd night Vigilante, he can't get rid of both.
Knights should be able to at least somewhat co-ordinate protects, though it's doubtful that one would protect a VT, it's possible.
Mafia counterclaiming puts them in a harder postion, as it bring's out 1v1's.

[Elyse]

Would adding a mechanic "If multiple seraph knights protect the same person, the protection does not work" help?

[JasonWazza]

Yeah that would probably stop it.

[JasonWazza]

Though it's quite simply possible that no one will be protected in that case.

[Elyse]

Unless all three chose the same person at least one would be protected.

[LlamaFluff]

2 Mafia Goons
1 1-shot Mafia Strongman
3 Compulsory Seraph Knights
1 Odd-night Vigilante
1 1-shot Cop
5 Vanilla Townies

Day one massclaim.

Scum immediately in trouble.

[Elyse]

Hm.

Well if scum all claim VT, that would make the lynch pool down to eight players.

If the strongman survives D1 (7/8 chance), then the cop or vig will die N1, along with another VT claim from the vig shot.

This makes 6 VT claims left at the start of D2.

Then, a VT claim is lynched, and scum kills the Seraph Knight protecting the remaining cop/vig. (The seraph knights will have to discuss in-thread who is protecting who)

5 VT claims left, another one is lynched. Scum kills cop/vig. Cop will have innocent/clear on a VT by now, if vig is alive he will have another shot, making 3 VTs and 2 seraph knights left.

If there's 3 scum in VTs, they win.
If there's 2, they need to get the third lynched. If one scum is lynched, they kill a seraph knight and it's 3p lylo with one seraph knight.
If there's 1 scum, they need to get one VT lynched, kill a seraph knight, and then once again 3p lylo with a seraph knight.
If there's 0 scum, town wins.

So massclaim isn't that bad, unless I'm missing something. Or if the strongman is lynched D1.

[LlamaFluff]

Well if scum all claim VT, that would make the lynch pool down to eight players.

That's not happening. It probably is going to be a breakdown of

7x VT (two scum)
4x Doc (one scum - the strongman claim)
1x Cop
1x Vig

As claiming cop/vig is suicide - meaning one confirmed town sees day four

Doc AB on Cop
Doc CD on Vig (note the 50% chance of where scum ends up swings this hard, they may have a small plus if the scum is drawn to the cop)

D1 VT pool lynch
N1 Cop dies, VT pool vig
D2 at (worst case) - Vig, 4x Doc, 5x VT claim (two scum), VT pool lynch
N2 Doc dies
D3 at (worst case) - Vig, 3x Doc, 4x VT claim (two scum)
N3 Doc dies (vig dies Doc C/D confirmed scum), VT pool vig
D4 at (worst case) - Vig, 2x Doc (one scum), 2x VT (scum win)

So unless im missing something scum needs to dodge five straight shots as all of their kills are forced

If all scum claims VT... you have 4 mislynches to win as scum in this setup
At all scum claiming VT there are 5 available

the vig/cop will drop that to 4 (vig N1/3 shot, cop clear - no obvious win for scum as both results garner same response, I think getting rid of vig is better though as it forces it cleaner)

So scum basically have to get every single lynch possible to win this way.

Town just clears too much out the gate by claiming. Scum having kills forced in open setups isn't always bad. When they have to dodge this many mislynches though it is.

[Elyse]

You're right that one scum would claim seraph knight and the kills are forced.

But how would the vig make it to day 4?

Assuming its discussed in thread about which seraph knight is protecting which player (which gives scum a chance to mess it up with a fake seraph knight claim), they can kill the seraph knight protecting the vig n2 and the vig n3.

If it isn't discussed, then the protections will most likely cancel each other out and scum can kill the vig/cop anyway.

Do you think it would be better to have no strongman and a goon instead, and scum chooses one of cop/vig instead of both, adding another VT?

[N]

I think Perpetual MyLo should be added to the Open game roster.

[fferyllt]

I agree.

[Guyett]

9 players
all are Mason put into 3 groups of 3
one group of 3 is actually scum without a night kill.
to stop the set up being broken anyone who says who their mason buddies are is mod killed

[quadz08]

It's 3-player LYLO: the Drawn Out Butthurt Version

[Guyett]

yes.... but scum aren't told they are scum and town aren't told that they are town.

[Cabd]

yes.... but scum aren't told they are scum

...Then that's a bastard game and has no business being anywhere near an open setup?

[Guyett]

ah yeah I forgot there's no bastard in open
I wanna run a bastard game... I have a few evil ideas for roles