Micro 215: Shitty Joke Smalltown (over)

[N]

Vote Count 1.01

nickthename

( 1 ) Maestro

Maestro

( 1 ) StubbsKVM

chkflip

( 1 ) nickthename

Varsoon

( 0 )

FuDuzn

( 1 ) uctriton00

JKMatthews

( 1 ) FuDuzn

StubbsKVM

( 1 ) JKMatthews

uctriton00

( 0 )

Nobody Special

( 1 ) chkflip

Not voting:

Varsoon , Nobody Special

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch

.

Deadline is in

(expired on 2013-08-26 20:15:16)

[FuDuzn]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: StubbsKVM
For a completely innocuous vote. The irony is that

still

nobody has 2 votes on them, but mine's not RVS so hopefully that counts for something...

Do you think my vote is rvs?

[JKMatthews]

I'm unsure - your 'reason' seems to be an RVS reason, but I often vote in RVS citing a nonsense reason but having intention.
Either way, I didn't realise the ambiguity of my statement, sorry. I didn't mean "my vote is the first non-RVS vote". I meant that it was ironic that I was putting a first vote on someone at the back end of RVS while essentially citing the reason "for putting a first vote on someone at the back end of RVS".

[FuDuzn]

So given that we all know the PRs anyway, is it worth discussing some sort of strategy or is it better to leave everyone to their own devices?

Care to share with the class why you made this anti town statement?

Bonus town points to those who can explain why it is anti town.

[Maestro]

JKM, why would would we plan something in public, or rather, why would you suggest we plan something in public when we're on a truly level playing field with the Scum at this point in time, at least information-wise? planning things out in public is only the best idea if there is claiming/clearing (usually of PR's) involved, or if there is an auto-Win strategy conceived. any other time public planning simply serves to inform Scum about actions which would otherwise be more unpredictable and (hopefully) more to our advantage

all that being said, Fuddy needs to stop the patronizing tone - it makes me want to lynch his face

[FuDuzn]

Maestro, you have town points.......but unfortunately I have been informed by our judges that they will be taken away for wanting to lynch my face.

Patronizing is a valuable tool in this game of ours my friend.

[Maestro]

probably, but in my current mood (which can be interpreted as reclining in a plush chair with a crisp glass of whine) I find it annoying

[FuDuzn]

A glass of wine or whine?

And either way you say a red.

[FuDuzn]

*I hope you say

I myself have been enjoying a nice IPA, clearly from the typos.

[JKMatthews]

Notice that I said "Is it worth discussing...", not "I would like to discuss..." My ability to strategise in formats I haven't played is abysmal in this game, so I thought I'd open up conversation re strategy. And even still, it is in theory possible to have an optimal strategy that doesn't explicitly state what everyone's doing.

JKM, why would would we plan something in public, or rather, why would you suggest we plan something in public

when we're on a truly level playing field with the Scum at this point in time, at least information-wise

? planning things out in public is only the best idea if there is claiming/clearing (usually of PR's) involved, or if there is an auto-Win strategy conceived. any other time public planning simply serves to inform Scum about actions which would otherwise be more unpredictable and (hopefully) more to our advantage

There's something fallacious about the bolded reasoning, but I'm having trouble putting my finger on it/expressing it. You say everyone knowing everyone's powers puts us on a "truly level" playing field, as though us not all knowing each other's PRs would be a disadvantage. But if that were true, every game of mafia would start with all the PRs claiming so that town would be on a "truly level" playing field. Given that scum already know

exactly who they want to pick off

, I would say town are decidedly disadvantaged compared to normal.
I'm happy to concede that open planning/strategising can be harmful to town, but the fact that bolded seems only to serve as a subtle "I am town" doesn't sit well with me...

[Maestro]

(...) every game of mafia would start with all the PRs claiming so that town would be on a "truly level" playing field. Given that scum already know exactly who they want to pick off, I would say town are decidedly disadvantaged compared to normal.

I disagree, insofar as Town claiming just to "put themselves on a level playing field" is decidedly antiTown in almost any

OTHER

setup, since Scum have a chance to lie about their role. You forget that while we do not know

WHO

Scum is, we do know

WHAT

they are - or more usefully, we know what they are not. The setup is essentially open, alignment is the only thing which can or would be up for debate in this game. Therefore I consider us on a level playing field - yes Scum knows what Town's power is exactly, but given process of elimination and Night Action analyzation (which I will be a huge proponent of in this setup/game), I consider us to be most definitely "advantaged" (to use your phrase) compared to normal.

I'll follow that up by adding that I believe refusing to claim Night Actions at any point in this game should be considered a Scumclaim.

[JKMatthews]

Please tell me how we know what scum are not (other than each townie personally knowing scum isn't their role)? Do you mean we know what roles are

in the game

? I feel like this is bordering on theory discussion, but my point more was:
Suppose rather than drafting these roles, we were each randomly assigned them (but were still informed of the complete list of roles), then randomly assigned alignment. Is the correct play for everybody to claim their role to create a level playing field?

I wholeheartedly agree.

[StubbsKVM]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: StubbsKVM
For a completely innocuous vote. The irony is that

still

nobody has 2 votes on them, but mine's not RVS so hopefully that counts for something...

I vote whoever I want, whether you like it or not.

[JKMatthews]

Not asking you to vote according to what I like. I expect town players to vote according to what's helpful for town, though...

[Maestro]

Yes, I mean we know what's

in the game

. That could seem trivial to you, and I was probably explaining in a roundabout way, but you obviously didn't get the full gist of my point because this:

Suppose rather than drafting these roles, we were each randomly assigned them (but were still informed of the complete list of roles), then randomly assigned alignment. Is the correct play for everybody to claim their role to create a level playing field?

...is something I would answer "no" to. You're not understanding me 100%. I'm saying that in a setup where Scum does not have the opportunity to lie about their Role, we essentially start off on what I consider to be a more advantageous footing/"level playing field", since Scum can now be more easily ousted through Night Action analyzation and process of elimination. In a setup where Scum have the chance to lie about their Role within reason (even if simply by claiming VT) there is considerably less proTown support for claiming as soon as possible.

The easiest example would be Stubbs, who (if Scum) would be obligated to choose his claimed/actual target carefully when claiming to us, since his Role is protective and must take into account the gamestate at the end of the previous Day as well as any Death the previous Night, etc. There are other examples, but it's 3 AM and I'm going to bed. Hopefully you understand what I've been trying to say.

P.S. RE - "this is all just theory" - maybe, but a) it's relevant theory, b) provides something for everyone to comment on and thus (hopefully) starts to ride us out of the doldrums, and c) I would think it gives me some insight into the mindset of every commenter via their personal thoughts. Maybe even looking at who comments vs. who doesn't could lead to some interesting association/insight into player(s) mindset/alignment. Discussion, however broadly related to the game as a whole rather than the game at hand, is usually not a bad thing - especially when not much else is going on.

P-Edit: lol, well said. I kinda want Stubbs to be Scum just so we can watch him squirm over his increasingly painful Night Action claims.

Also, for anybody who cares to try metaing me, I've been getting into this doldrums lately with my play (read: I've been sucking royally) so I'm trying to get back to my roots a little bit with my play here. A recently completed game of Bad Idea Mafia in Mayfair would most likely provide the most interesting disparity in my playstyle when compared with the "me" you'll see here.

[Maestro]

I just used the word doldrums twice in one post without noticing so there's dark magic afoot my young padawans

[Maestro]

anyway yeah Stubbs might actually be Scum so let's wagon this motherfucker

VOTE: Stubbs

[JKMatthews]

Yes, I mean we know what's

in the game

. That could seem trivial to you, and I was probably explaining in a roundabout way, but you obviously didn't get the full gist of my point because this:

Suppose rather than drafting these roles, we were each randomly assigned them (but were still informed of the complete list of roles), then randomly assigned alignment. Is the correct play for everybody to claim their role to create a level playing field?

...is something I would answer "no" to. You're not understanding me 100%. I'm saying that in a setup where Scum does not have the opportunity to lie about their Role, we essentially start off on what I consider to be a more advantageous footing/"level playing field", since Scum can now be more easily ousted through Night Action analyzation and process of elimination. In a setup where Scum have the chance to lie about their Role within reason (even if simply by claiming VT) there is considerably less proTown support for claiming as soon as possible.

In the hypothetical I proposed, scum also wouldn't have the chance to lie about their roles, even by claiming VT. I feel like we're having 2 tangential conversations, because I understand and agree with what you've been saying, other than the 'level playing field thing'.
In case my hypothetical wasn't clear, let me try again:
The set up is exactly the same as this game (everyone has a PR), except that instead of the PRs being drafted they were randomly assigned to us. Scum can't possibly lie about their role (unless they swapped claims with a buddy for some bizarre reason) because each of the X players has a unique PR from the list of X PRs. Does everyone claiming level the playing field?

I'm glad you agree Stubbs is scum though...

[Maestro]

OHOKISEEWHATYOU'RESAYINGNOW, in that case, yes, that would also level the field IMO - Scum would be forced to claim truthfully therein (unless [as you said] they switched claims with a partner or had a deathwish) and it would follow the same patterns and produce the same result (IMO) as if the roles had been Mod-confirmed.

I'm not entirely used to the idea of a truly Open setup, so I think that's what I'm trying to discuss at the moment. Most of the time an entire unique list of Roles isn't made public knowledge, so Scum have better opportunities to fakeclaim/fakeaction.

goodnight

[Maestro]

switching claims with a partner would be almost as stupid as fakeclaiming/deathwishing in a truly Open setup like this one - again it would be Role interactions that would call this out and/or the Scum may just fall apart trying to maintain what is basically their partner's claim/fakeaction

[Varsoon]

Just woke up. My internet was down last night.
I'll catch up later today.
My eyes hurt.

[chkflip]

Well didn't we just GET RIGHT INTO IT, THEN. Reading.

[StubbsKVM]

Let's Lynch the scum bodyguard. He has such awesome powers.

He might die protecting other scum somehow.

[chkflip]

Do something pro-town instead of bitching. That might deter them, y'know. What do you think of their discussion?

[StubbsKVM]

Well, it's pretty obvious we can't lie about out roles.
I'm wondering if alignments are all random, considering some powers are more likely scum or town.