Mini 410 - McDonald's Mafia [Game Over!]

[Frozen Atlantic]

vote StallingChamp

Either he's completely worthless town for proxying his vote to an unknown entity, or he's scum trying to find a buddy, or he's scum doubling his vote. It's the random D1 section of the game, his vote isn't critical anyway.

[Frozen Atlantic]

I didn't think of masonry. But yeah, safe to say that proxying your vote to a mason is also retarded. You're supposed to NOT be connecting yourself to the other guy during the day. In short,

phail

.

FOS: Winchester for explaining a random vote.

o_0;

[Frozen Atlantic]

I didn't think of masonry. But yeah, safe to say that proxying your vote to a mason is also retarded. You're supposed to NOT be connecting yourself to the other guy during the day. In short,

phail

.

1) Bzzzt. Wrong. On so many levels.


2) Masons are supposed to leave hints where they can so that, if one of them dies, the other(s) will be able to confirm themselves. Proxying a vote to a mason is actually a pretty good way of doing so.

3) It's little secret that I'm going to be named the best scumhunter from 2006; proxying one's vote to the Paragon is probably the safest decision one can make. I'm no more or less likely to be scum than anybody else, and if I actually manage to find something useful to do with that vote, I just might pressure the right person at the right time.

4) I definitely don't see a reason why one should/would proxy D1.

1) ORLY?

2) There are no more subtle way to make the "hidden" part of that statement plausible? This method is about as good as making a post that says "SUP MASON".

3) It's a safe decision... if you are town. All of point three is logical if you are a confirmed townie, you are not and therefore it is not. Am I missing something?

4) Well, we agree on that, anyway. SC? Incredibly bad play. At best. Pretend all that stuff was in question form and respond accordingly. Vote stays - the whole town can note it if they like.

[Frozen Atlantic]

I proxied my vote for one main reason: to generate discussion.

Needless to say, if SC's "I wanted to spark discussion" reasoning is in fact true, he's accomplished exactly what he set out to do... in which case, he did

NOT

make a bad play. He made a very

good

play.

If you are making an intentionally bad play to spark discussion, then the discussion that ensues doesn't help you seperate scum from town, it merely seperates good player from bad player.

Nobody needs to proxy their vote for a 24 hour abscence, nobody needs to proxy their vote on day one, and nobody should be "willing to put their faith into"

any

unconfirmed player, regardless of their experience level.

I also find myself wondering what secret fountain of scumbusting he hoped to uncover with a mere one day leave. This simply does not add up on a great many levels. The play seems to have a greater effect of tying oneself to said experienced player in the eyes of the town and gaining his trust for future votes. FA's mama didn't raise no fool. And SC wants to know why I'm on top of him for an intentional bad play? Peep the sig. It's not new.

Virtually

NOTHING

in Mafia is a safe decision. Saying that his move is stupid because it might help the scum is like saying "we shouldn't ever lynch D1 because we don't have info and will probably lynch a townie." That's just a retarded argument.

^ =/= logic. You're right, there are no "safe" choices in Mafia. But there is such a thing as calucated risk and reward. We lynch Day One because there's been a good amount of discussion and we've made an effort to pick the scummiest player in the town. Making dumb, random plays and bandwagoning the people that point out said dumb plays - I might be a little rusty, but I can't file that under "good, calculated risk".

Omega - I think "off the wall" is letting the dude off light.

God, I miss this game. Questions, comments, concerns?

[Frozen Atlantic]

In this instance?

Good play : Words and actions that help the town track scum (ie: pressuring StallingChamp)
Bad play : Words and actions that distract the town from tracking scum. (ie: tying yourself to an unknown alignment for any length of time)

Harmless play is voting for someone because they were last to confirm or has a screenname similar to yours. This wasn't harmless play. To those sitting on the sidelines and wondering "what the big deal is" - do you think it would be more constructive for the town to NOT discuss this? I'm all ears.

[Frozen Atlantic]

First, the whole "your (insert whatever) is noted" gimmick is already taken this game. Pick something else.

Second, I would stick with letting Glork handle your arguments for you. In this sense of the word "needs" is clearly meant to indicate

the town's

needs and not your own. The so called change of reasoning you're trying to pin on me is a response to Glork's words and not your own.

As far as the "secret fountain of scumbusting" line, here are your own words:

"It has done a good job of generating discussion, and I have to agree with Glork that I am mighty suspicious of those who took the oppertunity to jump on me for that."

Am I mistaken in the belief that the "discussion" you hoped to draw had the purpose of finding someone you found scummy (ie - the first guy to call you out)? Or did you hope to generate idle discussion of the weather?

As far as "trust" goes, I'll need to repeat it again since you haven't mentioned or reponded to it at all in your posts -

you should not be showing any "trust" for anyone of unknown alignment!

That is foolish, and seems more in the intrests of self-preservation than scumhunting.

I certainly do not believe that your only goal in this play was to "generate discussion". The idea that Glork's gonna use his two votes to quicklynch someone is stupid, but you ARE trying to hide behind another player of unknown alignment. How on earth is this pro-town? Suppose one of you are scum - it instantly casts suspicion on the other one.

Like I said, terrible play. At best.

[Frozen Atlantic]

I'm not gonna elaborate any further on the proxy thing unless it's asked due to general sentiment of the town.

Yellowbounder:

Town----------Scummy---Scum

[Frozen Atlantic]

/buries head in hands

[Frozen Atlantic]

You can take that FoS and put it up yer bum, Glorkie.

[Frozen Atlantic]

unvote vote DragonofSummer

That was just a very "third vote on a crappy wagon" kind of post. Technically it was 4th, I think, but um... yeah, I seriously don't like using the "reasons everyone else said" vote when there is a dearth of good reasoning.[/b]

[Frozen Atlantic]

Hahaha. Aw, man. Page Five - Simply Amazing.

[Frozen Atlantic]

OK. This is the second time my browser has died during an epic game analysis post, but here's some content.

The Pete D votes / wagon / whatever are ridiculous. He's got like five posts - I'd love for Amb and Dos to provide any reasoning for voting for him beyond "But Glork said so!"

Seriously, town.

Stop letting this dude think for you.

It's embarrassing.

DoS admits making an OMGUS-vote for self preservation instead of stating a case for Pete (who is thinks IZ REALLY SCUM) beyind "for the reasons said earlier" in #157. I mean, jeez. Terrible.

I am very suspicious of Amb's reactions. My first inclination was to enter this game with a splash by putting him at -1. However, on second though, I think we would be smarter to lynch Frozen Atlantic. There was a lot of sound and fury from Frat early game because of SC's proxy-vote, and since then he's posted sporadically contentless posts.

Yeeeah, gonna assume that you blitzed the readthrough. Around Page four, it became clear that the town didn't see enough to move on SC. I had the choice of either stomping my feet and dragging the town where I wanted them to go (which I've certainly done in the past where appropriate), or standng to the side for a couple of pages and letting the scumz be scumz. I think I've achieved that goal nicely.

(Comes back, sees vote)

At this point in the day, you're gonna need a lot more than "lack of content" and "bad vibes" as cause for a vote, especially with the scummy players walking around right now. If you have any content based on my post history, please post it.

I believe the doc claim. DoS is the lynch for today. So far, PP and Omega are the only people striking me as 100% town.

Questions, comments, concerns?

[Frozen Atlantic]

Why is it so vital to Amb that he can't reveal who he protected last night?

It's the same reason that it's a bad idea to post "Hey, what's your result?" to a claimed Cop as soon as day starts.

Discussion is more informative when less information is known. Suppose Amb had protected FrozenAtlantic (whom the scums tried to kill), and then several players bandwagoned FrAt the next day for some really silly/bad reason. We'd be able to get information from this bandwagon, whereas if Amb had revealed FrAt as a protection chioce right away, that wagon would never have happened.

It's also possible that Amb's information won't even be helpful to the town. Suppose the kill was stopped by a roleblocker, and not Doc-protection. If Amb protected OmegaScum (hypothetically speaking) and we all went "aha! Scums probably tried to kill Omega. He's likely not scum!' then we're setting ourselves up for failure.

As I said before, in the absence of a counterclaim, there is no reason to lynch Amb. If Amb is scum and there is a Doc out there somewhere, they should wait until the day

before

LyLo to counterclaim. That way, even if we lynch the wrong person, the town hasn't lost yet. The scums are not going to be able to play WIFOM games with us and trick us into lynching Amb if he's really a Doctor.

I think that Amb is legit anyway. As I indicated yesterday, I thought that exactly one of DoS/Amb was scum, based on their interation with the self-preservation votes. I think that the scums wanted to "trick" us into trying to lynch him, and that they went after either SC or myself... and that their kill was foiled by some other night action.


By the way, I'd bet $10 that at least one of PP/TCS is scum. Just sayin'.

Wonderful post, sir.

vote : Pink Princess

I love you, but you are scumz.

[Frozen Atlantic]

Because I'm much much much smarter than you and Glork shall attest to that fact shortly.

PP is today's lynch.

[Frozen Atlantic]

Yes, we have scumbags. Besides PP and the guy we lynched before, who looks like the third scumz?

[Frozen Atlantic]

Stop discussing Glork and start discussing who the third scum is, please.

[Frozen Atlantic]

For your own sake, I hope that you are scum. Because if you're honestly thinking this as a pro-town player, you will likely get a post-game rant like you have

never

witnessed before.

Friggin' indeed.

Okey dokey, it's claim time. Not sure if my D2 play was clinically textbook perfect, but eh.

I'm a Fanatical Vegan. I came here to protest Mickey D's but I don't want to get killed by scumz. I've got a Roleblocker/Vigilante role. Blocking PP D1, combined with the fact that the doctor is already outed and the textbook mafia hit, combined with her late D1 play (read it yourself), puts her at the top of my scumdar.

Given my flavor, I think TCS is some sort of meat industry lobbyist/lyncher, thus is complete lack of non FA content.

Speedlynch isn't needed, but we obviously need to get together and decide on the town's scummiest characters. Glork, if you've got some revelations you've been holding back, bring 'em. Since Amb and I have jumped ahead on the scums list of targets, I think you're free to say whatever you like.

[Frozen Atlantic]

unvote

, not because i do or don't believe the claim, but because I don't want a speedlynch.

Um, I think massclaim is in order, yes. Anyone want to discuss?

[Frozen Atlantic]

Better idea, how bout we lynch PP today and vig you tonight?

[Frozen Atlantic]

Not convinced she's lying, but certainly not convinced she isn't.

[Frozen Atlantic]

So you're willing to lynch a claimed Cop because you're not sure if she's lying?

I am highly suspicious of the claim.

TCS' colossally bad play idea that directs the night actions of the town seems to do wonders for both himself and the people highest on my scummometer is not helping.

[Frozen Atlantic]

As far as a cop claim buying PP a scrutiny free day, First you say

NOOOOOOOO!

then you say -

readthegamereadthegamereadthegame

then you say -

Bababababa, I'm lynchin it

50 epoints to whoever gets that. Anyway. Still need to read closely. Vote counts?

[Frozen Atlantic]

EBWODP: Strongly agree on the counterclaim thing, obviously.

[Frozen Atlantic]

Seeing as I was damn close to advocating a PP lynch regardless of her cop claim, know I'm firmly on board now that there's a counterclaim.

I think I'm a higher priority protect than Dean, although Amb should totally do what he wants on that end and give no hint of where he's going. I think we need to do a thorough read through and post our opinions before we go to night.

TCS - Seriously, quit trying to direct night actions to lurkers. It's scummy.

[Frozen Atlantic]

Now... you people

do

realize that if we manage

not

to lynch PP today, FrAt will simply KILL HER OVERNIGHT... right?

Town, please resume letting Glork think for you.

[Frozen Atlantic]

And on a completely unrelated side note: Is this a rather long Day 2?

The longer, the better. More time for scumz to slip over themselves.

Should we be directing Amb's doc protection? At first I was against it, but if he's scum, that could potentially put a hurtin' on us.