Open 512: See Nine Plus Plus (Game Ovah)

[SalmonellaDreams]

Still not finished reading, but that looks like a good case.

[Xiao Long]

Damn Saki, easy on them burns.

[Does Bo Know]

Votecount 2.7

[L-3] Dyslexicon - Bulbazak, CherryDrPepper, oriole
[L-3] jmo16mla - Saki, Xiao Long, SalmonellaDreams
[L-5] CherryDrPepper - jmo16mla

Not voting: Paschendale, Dyslexicon, Flench, TunnelVision

With 11 players alive, it takes 6 votes to lynch! Deadline is Tuesday, August 20th, 2013, at 1:00 PM CST ((expired on 2013-08-20 13:00:00)).

---

[Paschendale]

I'm not burned. I've made points the whole game. The trouble, honestly, is that day 1 yielded basically no valuable reads on anyone. Some people were too quiet, some people act like morons, and some people were scummy sometimes and towny others. But if you all can't handle a very short ISO...

If Dys keeps not posting, he should be lynched. You don't let a lurker get away with it this much, and his posts haven't been useful.
Flench started out towny to me, but has stopped contributing. He's doing the active lurking and just giving people attitude. He should be lynched, too.
Oriole started out good, too, but his arguments have really slipped. Maybe he just really wanted to bus Varsoon, or maybe he just only had one decent read. Either way, his passion has disappeared. He might be a decent lynch candidate.
Xiao is smug. He's poking people rather than offering any real opinions. He's just summing up the past without reaching conclusions about the present. He could be a good lynch.
Cherry has been stepping up a bit, but still teetering. The SK theory on them is stupid. Not yet for lynching.
Saki is basically useless.
Tunnel has stepped up.
Sal has to say more before I'll have anything to say about him.
Bulb lost his passion after day 1, too, and started just poking at people. He's not risking much nor making compelling arguments. He could be a decent lynch.
The only person I'm really in the dark about is jmo. The recent cases on him were bad, but he doesn't contribute much. He could be a decent lynch.

So, that would be 6 solid lynch targets out of 11 players. 7 if we counted Saki. I'm not pushing hard for any lynches at the moment because I know that there are definitely town players who are scumming it the hell up.

[Saki]

that post is bad pasche, and you should feel bad

[Paschendale]

Every post you make is bad.

[Xiao Long]

I'm not burned. I've made points the whole game. The trouble, honestly, is that day 1 yielded basically no valuable reads on anyone. Some people were too quiet, some people act like morons, and some people were scummy sometimes and towny others. But if you all can't handle a very short ISO...

It is a burn, this has been a terrible game for you, and I think it's because you were conftown right out the gate. Sure, you've made good posts, almost every body has, but you've been slacking this game. =/

If Dys keeps not posting, he should be lynched. You don't let a lurker get away with it this much, and his posts haven't been useful.

-Agree

Flench started out towny to me, but has stopped contributing. He's doing the active lurking and just giving people attitude. He should be lynched, too.

-Somewhat agree, but I think he can wait a few days.

Oriole started out good, too, but his arguments have really slipped. Maybe he just really wanted to bus Varsoon, or maybe he just only had one decent read. Either way, his passion has disappeared. He might be a decent lynch candidate.

-Somewhat disagree, I think Oriole has been rather town.

Xiao is smug. He's poking people rather than offering any real opinions. He's just summing up the past without reaching conclusions about the present. He could be a good lynch.

-Completely false, my D2 game hasn't been as strong as D1, but I've already got my vote placed on who I want lynched and already explained why.

Cherry has been stepping up a bit, but still teetering. The SK theory on them is stupid. Not yet for lynching.

-It's not stupid, the problem is we can't be certain if she is town vig yet. I'm willing to put off lynching her today in favour of her killing VTs while we lynch them.

Saki is basically useless.

-Not even true, he's just a bit misguided sometimes, which I attribute to him being a victim of wifom. It's likely he made a correct roleblock N1, given that we've had no doctor step up to say they protected anyone.

Tunnel has stepped up.

-Tunnel has been good the entire game.

Sal has to say more before I'll have anything to say about him.

-Agree

Bulb lost his passion after day 1, too, and started just poking at people. He's not risking much nor making compelling arguments. He could be a decent lynch.

-I think he's looking the wrong way, but I don't think he should be lynched soon.

The only person I'm really in the dark about is jmo. The recent cases on him were bad, but he doesn't contribute much. He could be a decent lynch.

-Just look at his ISO, he's obvscum.

Every post you make is bad.

This isn't true, no need to get so defensive.

[oriole]

Case for Oriole:

1) This is tricky, read it a couple times. Oriole states in 361 an if/than situation based on game setup. He commits to this probability argument on game setup before Varsoon claims. Varsoon claims full roleblocker in post 384. And right then, Oriole subtly suggests an opportunity for Varsoon to weasel his way out of the shitty probability false claim he made: post 392. "Any chance either of you is a 1 shot roleblocker (hint hint, Varsoon you're going down in flames bro.)" He does this because he recognizes we're going to filet Varsoon for his BS claim and he wants to give him an out. Varsoon's response says "I can roleblock each night" and shuts down this chance.

2) In the early game, Oriole was very loose with his vote and threw it around to add pressure, demonstrate his suspicions: See posts 62 (for Titus), 133 (for TunnelVision), 234 (CherryDrPepper).

2 continued) Oriole starts the fence sitting on Varsoon in post 417 with a "It doesn't make any sense why he would do this, but then again..." By 519, he's FOS'ing Varsoon... but wait. No vote. 525, more suspicion of Varsoon. No vote. By 669 he'd rather hang Titus over Varsoon. 677 he's stating we should lynch outside of Varsoon and Saki for the day. No votes for Varsoon at all, nor for Titus during this attempt at recovery for team scum.

2 continued) NOW CHECK THIS: 688, dude asks VoteMe a simple question and tosses that vote right on for pressure. Just a few posts ago, he was feigning suspicion of Varsoon/Titus but didn't drop the votes on them for pressure.

3) Oriole begins defending Varsoon: By post 853, oriole is actively refuting the case against Varsoon. But, he concedes several points are irrefutable. Here's a slip in the mix on point 1: "I agree with Pasche here. If Varsoon contradicted himself "multiple times", there should be examples available."
Instead of looking for scum, he's defending scum. What? Because somebody scum hunting is looking for reasons that people are scum, not searching for reasons they aren't. The contradictions in Varsoon's posts are blatantly obvious if you even bother to look at his ISO (which in theory Oriole had done to challenge the case I made.) So, he refutes this allegation by saying "Provide evidence." He went into that ISO dive and research with the sole intention of invalidating my claim, NOT exploring the feasibility of it and developing a better read on Varsoon. This is not scum hunting. This is not town behavior.

3 continued) On points 5 and 12, he agrees that there is no appropriate rebuttal. It would stand to reason that would leave some lingering suspicion of the defender (Varsoon.) But, in 906, he's back to actively defending Varsoon again... this time against Titus's case. This continues for a bit with some back and forth, but Oriole remains non-committal on Varsoon.

4) Pushing a an alternate wagon on a lurker to derail the Varsoon wagon. Oriole starts this in 2055 as things start to look more serious on Varsoon. And he rides it until the end of the day phase. Continually adding more and more reasons why somebody else should hang.

5) Most of his play has been non-committal and not pro town. This is a harder point to make. Varsoon did some things that were actively anti-town in nature (which are easier to identify.) Oriole is more controlled and slick, and hasn't done that. BUT, he has not done anything that is pro-town in nature. So, the absence of pro-town play can be viewed as scummy.

This is just a little bit to get us started. I have more. Let's see what Oriole has to say and see of anybody else wants to build on some of this.

All you lurkers need to step up and get in on this game though. Seriously. We've all heard enough from me, Saki, Xiao, Cherry, etc.

-1-

My motivation for defending Varsoon I thought I made clear.

I'm sneaking in a quick post here, but I'm busy for another hour or so...

My impression so far is that Saki's claim is real, Varsoon is fake-claiming town because ~reasons~, and while Titus is saying some things I disagree with that doesn't make him scum.

UNVOTE:
My vote on Cherry's a bit outdated.

I wasn't FOSing Varsoon in 519, where do you get that impression? I explicitly said "Varsoon is fake-claiming town because ~reasons~". I said I didn't know why he would do that, but I was pretty clear I thought he was town. There's no suspicion on Varsoon in 525, either, because it was defending 519. 669 and 677 follow 519 in that I thought they were both town.

Point 3 is false in accusations that I went ISO diving to refute TV. My ISO dive was linked. It was 669, while his case (where he alleges Varsoon's contradictions) was 793.

I disagree with your characterization of Stubbs as a lurker. He had 52 posts in 13 days. While the speed of this thread makes it seem like people lurk, the only lurker this game has really been Dys. Pedanticness aside, sure I pushed that wagon on Stubbs. I attacked the posts he made though, not the lack of them. This is the second game I've been accused of piling on reasons to vote someone as I drive a wagon. I flipped town in that game, I'll flip town here too.

I'm pretty sure I committed to defending Varsoon and pushing Stubbs as a wagon.

[oriole]

I'm not burned. I've made points the whole game. The trouble, honestly, is that day 1 yielded basically no valuable reads on anyone. Some people were too quiet, some people act like morons, and some people were scummy sometimes and towny others. But if you all can't handle a very short ISO...

If Dys keeps not posting, he should be lynched. You don't let a lurker get away with it this much, and his posts haven't been useful.
Flench started out towny to me, but has stopped contributing. He's doing the active lurking and just giving people attitude. He should be lynched, too.
Oriole started out good, too, but his arguments have really slipped. Maybe he just really wanted to bus Varsoon, or maybe he just only had one decent read. Either way, his passion has disappeared. He might be a decent lynch candidate.
Xiao is smug. He's poking people rather than offering any real opinions. He's just summing up the past without reaching conclusions about the present. He could be a good lynch.
Cherry has been stepping up a bit, but still teetering. The SK theory on them is stupid. Not yet for lynching.
Saki is basically useless.
Tunnel has stepped up.
Sal has to say more before I'll have anything to say about him.
Bulb lost his passion after day 1, too, and started just poking at people. He's not risking much nor making compelling arguments. He could be a decent lynch.
The only person I'm really in the dark about is jmo. The recent cases on him were bad, but he doesn't contribute much. He could be a decent lynch.

So, that would be 6 solid lynch targets out of 11 players. 7 if we counted Saki. I'm not pushing hard for any lynches at the moment because I know that there are definitely town players who are scumming it the hell up.

Saying Xiao isn't offering any real opinions is laughable when he's been screaming that jmo's scum for this entire thread. I have no clue how he's just summing up the past, either.
I have no idea how people "lose their passion" after Day 1.
Why can't you read Stubbs, who had Sal's slot?
Implying that "giving people attitude" is lynch-worthy is bad.
Going after others for not making cases/poking at people/whatever when you've admitted that you're not pushing hard for lynches because you want 6-7 people lynched is terrible.
Also, this post is extremely different from 2344. You called Jmo likely scum in 2121, 1801, and 1573.
Why are you so inconsistent?

[Bulbazak]

Looked back over Xiao's Jmo case. I still don't find it compelling. Having played with Jmo-town before, I'm not finding his play that different. Jmo is one of those players who don't give much, and with that in mind, Xiao's entire case is attacking playstyle rather than identifying scum tells.

TV's Oriole case is better, although I'm still not completely convinced.

Bulb lost his passion after day 1, too, and started just poking at people. He's not risking much nor making compelling arguments. He could be a decent lynch.

It's hard to say I lost my passion when I was unable to play d1. Getting Varsoon lynched was the only way I was able to majorly contribute to the day. You really don't have much ground to make the claim you're making.

The rest of your post is bad too. Activity and playstyle are not alignment indicative. That post is playing right into scum's hands.

[Xiao Long]

Bulbazak, you're going to lose the game for us if you keep being blind.

[SalmonellaDreams]

VOTE: Dyslexicon
Still trying to read through this massive clusterfuck of a game.
I'm not going to lie, I didn't read anything yesterday. I needed a break to maintain my sanity.
Anyways, I don't like Dys, due to what's been stated so far. No need to clog up the thread with regurgitated reasoning.

[CherryDrPepper]

Riddle me this, have you seen a game where scum hardbussed on Day1? And got all the attention to themselves? When other targets are there? How many of these games end in scum wins?

Why would Varsoon call jmo out for lurking first then build a case, but simultaneously read Dys as town even while she is lurking?

What does investigation immunity mean? Does it mean cop investigations will fail or that they will always reveal as town? Because I really do t want to leave Xiao clear. Yesterday he did NOTHING, and I mean NOTHING, but sheep, buddy and chainsaw Varsoon. And dismissed our point about him not concretely saying whether or not he thinks Varsoon is town or not. He is Pilating, washing his hands off the situation whule simultaneously agreeing with everything Varsoon says.

[Xiao Long]

Riddle me this, have you seen a game where scum hardbussed on Day1? And got all the attention to themselves? When other targets are there? How many of these games end in scum wins?

Because Varsoon was close to being lynched so he started throwing shit at the next likely target so that when Jmo flipped scum he would have more town cred.

What does investigation immunity mean? Does it mean cop investigations will fail or that they will always reveal as town? Because I really do t want to leave Xiao clear. Yesterday he did NOTHING, and I mean NOTHING, but sheep, buddy and chainsaw Varsoon. And dismissed our point about him not concretely saying whether or not he thinks Varsoon is town or not. He is Pilating, washing his hands off the situation whule simultaneously agreeing with everything Varsoon says.

I was wrong, apparently. Investigation immunity just means you show up innocent to investigations according to the wiki. So, if you want to think I'm SK or Godfather, that's your choice.
Also, nothing, really? Cause I'm pretty sure I'm the only one who made a case against Jmo. I also continually talked with you, Saki and Titus to try and convince you three to vote Jmo. Terrible attempt at discrediting me, your earlier attempts were better.

Yeah, I didn't concretely say whether I thought Varsoon was town or not because I DIDN'T KNOW IF HE WAS TOWN OR NOT. DURRRRR. I guess you've never had a fuckin' null read in your life.

If you want to be retarded and vig me tonight, go ahead.

[CherryDrPepper]

You dont think trying to get us to vote jmo is sheeping Varsoon? That wasnt discrediting you, that was pointing out that you didnt do anything but agree to Varsoon everytime and yet NOT think he was town, supposedly.

I thought you were pretty fucking confident we were the SK and not the vig?

We have null reads, the problem is you null read someone who you SHEEPED, BUDDIED, AND CHAINSAWED and yet didnt think they were town even if you acted like a parrot and said everything he said and agreed ti everything he said.

What you are doing right now is a bad attempt at discrediting us, we pointed out perfectly good points about you and Vrsoon and you dismiss it as us discrediting you.

I cant vote coz Sakura wont let me yet, but I'll have to convince her.

[Xiao Long]

How was it sheeping Varsoon when I'm the one who made the case against Jmo? You make no sense, Cherry. Stop doing that. I didn't agree with everything Varsoon did, that's why I didn't vote you when he voted you. That's why I didn't vote anyone else he voted except for Jmo. <.<

Not so much confidence that you are an SK, more like would not be surprised in the slightest. Either way, you have the same ability regardless.

The problem is I didn't sheep him. If you want to say I buddied and chainsawed, okay, I don't care. It's a misrep to say I agreed with everything he said.

I'm not discrediting you, you simply didn't have perfectly good points. If you had perfectly good points, I wouldn't have been able to refute them. Sorry, kid.

So you can't vote without Sakura's permission, but you can claim without her permission?

[Dyslexicon]

I see a lot of maybe's there, Dys. What do you actually think the truth is?

My gut says Xiao is scum. Problem is evidence, if true says otherwise. Bah, I guess I can't be too concrete anyway.

Speaking of Dys, my other head just told me something interesting:
"If not Xiao, I think Dys is a good lynch. Varsoon was targetting lurkers, and just said Dys looked town."
I don't remember this happening, does anyone remember?

I remember Varsoon "accusing" me of being tacitly town (or something similar).

Case Against Dyslexicon:

1) Content light/Active lurking. 10 posts? C'mon bro.
2) Fence sitting, open back door to escape arguments/positions. (Pasche hinted at this with all the maybes in Dys's most recent post.)
3) Trying to appear town with comments like, "Thank god D1 is over, and with a Varsoon lynch." If you read all 10 of his posts, you'll see some other examples.
4) Setting up to support a lynch on JMO, Cherry, and Xiao for today? Town, town, and town. Fail. But mafia needs to hang town, so makes sense. (They're way behind in the numbers game now, and I think frustrated/hopeless after Varsoon's play D1.)
5) There's some failed logic in a number of his posts, but it's minor in nature and is tied into some of the WIFOM in them. Just the same, it's filler content, no real substance.
6) Contradiction, in the same post no less:

Why would a potential SK try work against town, wouldn't that get them lynched? I don't think we need to worry about a potential SK until we know there is one.

I think there's likely scum among jmo, cherry and Xiao, however I wouldn't really think of jmo as other than nully if it hadn't been for the block thing.

Why is CherryDrP in your lynch list if you're not worried about an SK? If CherryDrP is scum, and setup for/claimed Vig on D1, alongside scumbuddy Varsoon's fake claim then.... no. No No NO. This scenario is too much fail to even consider. CherryDrP is town. Let's stop talking about CherryDrP. They'll be dead in a couple days anyways (2784.) Move along.

7) Avoiding directly engaging TunnelVision... "Fear of the Tunnel". See 2797, no mention of TunnelVision, despite talking about other outted role holders/confirmed roles, players, etc. Very strange. See 183, before the death tunnel was engaged, simple and direct question to Tunnel that subtly opened a door, casting potential doubt on something totally genuine. But see 985 asks Titus a direct question about TV/Titus interaction, does not ask TV. (this was post death tunnel.)

Explaining 7 a bit: We've found that mafia like to avoid us when we play very aggressive. They don't want us to latch on and engage in a direct line of questioning... so they don't poke the sleeping bear (so to speak.) You may think this is self-important, but it isn't. It's true of many mafia interactions with any player that has an aggressive play style. Though I'll concede that it becomes more obvious/disturbing if you are the player.

8) Intriguing Stances:
On JMO: Thought he was town. Then, "Because he was blocked, he probably needs to flip, but I don't think he's scum." Fail. Mafia loves to do this.
D1 pressured/postured around hanging: Titus (town), Cherry (town), Saki (town)?
Varsoon lynch: Jumped on the Varsoon wagon early and stayed there (note it was after that fail train gained steam.) But where was his vote? First on the train. Convenient. Too convenient for somebody who was barely reading/posting and considering the mass confusion that existed around Varsoon for awhile. Not to mention the open doors he left to back off of the Varsoon lynch despite leaving the vote there.

9) This:

Oriole also seems town for genuine scumhunting.

This point alone is weaksauce, I'm just adding it in because it fits in with my theory that oriole is scum alongside Dys.

VOTE: Dyslexicon

There's a few other things that we can develop as well, but I think this is a sufficient starting point.

-1-

I'll answer point by point.
1. I know -_- I can agree to being lynched based on this. This game has been terrible for me to follow. It is unfortunate.
2. I don't think this is entirely true. I state my thoughts as they are, just because I don't go all caps lock like some people doesn't mean I'm fence sitting. This would probably be a style issue.
3. Lol, it's true though. D1 was a nightmare at the end. What are the other examples you're refering to here?
4. My top suspect apparently have a "innocent", and jmo who he tries to get lynched got blocked on a one kill night (with claimed vig kill). So that's what you're seeing. I won't support any lynch, and it's still early in the day to say that.
5. Ties in with 2. Where's the failed logic?
6. Why can't Cherry be scum? I don't really get that.
7. This is awkward, because I must admit I haven't payed that much attention to you, other than you being all over Varsoon, and not much more that I can remember. Probably also ties in with my low post count.
8. About jmo, yes I'm not convinced, but I'm sure he got blocked, obviously this is conflicting, and you see a conflicted response to it.
About Varsoon I don't really get what was "comfortable" with my stance on him if I were to be scum with him. I was quite clear I wanted to lynch between the claimed blockers, Varsoon being my priority.
9. Still true, I've read Oriole town throughout the game. About your case on him I think your first point is intriguing.

Honestly I think this is vague. Seems like you're attacking me mostly for being more soft spoken which is a style issue. It's fine lynching me for being inactive, obviously I totally admit that, and it's unfortunate and not normally my preferred style. So do that, but not this case.

This is the Dys vote on Varsoon. It's interesting because he actually talks about bussing in a reply to Flench in the same post.

What do you find interesting about that?

It's more gut based, but I really didn't see what everyone else did when they said that you were scumhunting in your posts. Your posts read kinda wishy washy to me, and you avoided making strong stances. Also, out of all the inactives, you were the one that was focused on the least, which made you the most likely choice for a potential scum lurker.

I think I'm more soft spoken than most of you guys, but I definitely had my stances where I felt strongly about something. I can't control not being focused a lot on though, why would this make me more likely scum?

For the moment, yes. Even if they aren't, that is something that we can deal with later after more flips. There's no need to just start randomly lynching the PRs, simply because one of them MIGHT be lying.

No lynch should be random. I do agree, although I only find one of the claims (apart from Pasch obv) that is totally convincing to me.

Stubbs got behind and was genuinely frustrated, so frustrated, in fact, that he replaced out of the game. That's a town reaction, not a scum one. Scum may pretend like they were frustrated with the way Varsoon was spamming the thread, but they wouldn't care, precisely because Varsoon's actions were muddying the waters, making it easier for them to survive as a team. Scum would not replace out of an ideal situation such as that simply because they couldn't catch up with the game and were frustrated by the spammers. In fact, scum in that situation probably wouldn't be reading too much into the game in the first place.

I don't see Varsoon getting lynched as an "ideal situation" for scum. Actually it's annoying for everyone. I considered replacing out too, but I didn't want some poor replacement having over 100 pages to catch up on. Anyway, I don't see this as alignment indicative.

1) This is tricky, read it a couple times. Oriole states in 361 an if/than situation based on game setup. He commits to this probability argument on game setup before Varsoon claims. Varsoon claims full roleblocker in post 384. And right then, Oriole subtly suggests an opportunity for Varsoon to weasel his way out of the shitty probability false claim he made: post 392. "Any chance either of you is a 1 shot roleblocker (hint hint, Varsoon you're going down in flames bro.)" He does this because he recognizes we're going to filet Varsoon for his BS claim and he wants to give him an out. Varsoon's response says "I can roleblock each night" and shuts down this chance.

Any comments to this, Oriole?

Anyways, I don't like Dys, due to what's been stated so far. No need to clog up the thread with regurgitated reasoning.

I'd rather like to hear it.

[jmo16mla]

Post. Sorry. Been busy the past few days.

[Paschendale]

VOTE: Xiao

I haven't liked Xiao's sputtering at all. He talks a lot without saying much. Cherry makes a much more compelling case.

[Xiao Long]

lol

[Saki]

>_>

why are the votes going in any direction other than JMO.

[Xiao Long]

Because this town has WIFOM'd itself stupid. If lynching me causes them to pull their heads out of their asses, then I don't care.

[Bulbazak]

It's more gut based, but I really didn't see what everyone else did when they said that you were scumhunting in your posts. Your posts read kinda wishy washy to me, and you avoided making strong stances. Also, out of all the inactives, you were the one that was focused on the least, which made you the most likely choice for a potential scum lurker.

I think I'm more soft spoken than most of you guys, but I definitely had my stances where I felt strongly about something. I can't control not being focused a lot on though, why would this make me more likely scum?

It's not the "not being focused on" that makes you more likely to be scum. I'm having a hard time sorting you, as you seem to be hanging out in the null area and seem content to continue lurking. This makes me uncomfortable. I'm seeing nothing from you that indicates either town or scum, and with everything that went on d1, there should be something, but there's not.

I don't see Varsoon getting lynched as an "ideal situation" for scum. Actually it's annoying for everyone. I considered replacing out too, but I didn't want some poor replacement having over 100 pages to catch up on. Anyway, I don't see this as alignment indicative.

That wasn't the ideal situation I was talking about. Varsoon muddying up the thread with WIFOM was the ideal situation, as town was off balance. Varsoon could have very well been able to confuse the town to victory, as he has experience doing so as scum. If Stubbs was scum, he may have periodically complained, but he wouldn't have gotten so frustrated with being unable to catchup that he'd replace out, as that'd be contrary to his team's strategy.

Compare that with where you state that you were frustrated and considered replacing out AFTER Varsoon is already dead. It feels more like scum putting on a show, rather than actual frustrated town.

[Dyslexicon]

It's not the "not being focused on" that makes you more likely to be scum. I'm having a hard time sorting you, as you seem to be hanging out in the null area and seem content to continue lurking. This makes me uncomfortable. I'm seeing nothing from you that indicates either town or scum, and with everything that went on d1, there should be something, but there's not.

If you don't see anything alignment indicative, how come you had me as scum in your first posts? I'm not really content with lurking and I believe my rl gives possibility for me to be more active finally.

That wasn't the ideal situation I was talking about. Varsoon muddying up the thread with WIFOM was the ideal situation, as town was off balance. Varsoon could have very well been able to confuse the town to victory, as he has experience doing so as scum. If Stubbs was scum, he may have periodically complained, but he wouldn't have gotten so frustrated with being unable to catchup that he'd replace out, as that'd be contrary to his team's strategy.

Compare that with where you state that you were frustrated and considered replacing out AFTER Varsoon is already dead. It feels more like scum putting on a show, rather than actual frustrated town.

I've seen scum throw a tantrum before, but reading his good bye post it does seem to come from town just being fed up. I considered being replaced earlier in the game, but that was because of my inactivety, so it's a debate I've had going and the game didn't get more enjoyable by the spamming. I don't really think this is significant right now, as I'd rather state my meta-feelz about the game afterwards.

[Saki]

GAWD DAMMIT
STOP WIFOMING YOURSELVES TO DEATH
LYNCH JMO