Mafia 60: Face-to-Face - Game over!

[Glork]

Nightfall: We've played a few, but the only one that really rings a bell have was one into which I replaced (Best of the Internet). If you care to ask anybody, the behavior that I exhibited D1 is fairly typical for me regardless of what alignment I have. I like stirring the pot early and then getting into the muck and seeing what I can dig up.

[Glork]

I think I typed that before I noticed Thesp's failure to contest the IH vig, which is the most glaring event in the game thus far. Read Adele's comments about sv after her claim though and you'll see why Adele stood out as scummiest before that observation about Thesp.

How, and in what order, did you go about compiling the results of your analysis?

[Adele]

Ether, for her defense of AndrewS (which I still think was a little odd, though I can't place exactly why)

It's difficult to pin down, but I think I can see it too. Things like

Off the top of my head, I don't remember even newbie games on 'Scum where an unoptimal no-lynch agenda actually got through. It in no way made Andrew more town; just, I didn't find it scummy. (

Now, his own behavior after the vote...well, if his wagon didn't go ridiculous, I'd probably still be on it.

)

I loathe the misrepresentative voters more than [uI loathe Andrew himself, and although Andrew has done little to help his position[/u] since then, the votes were already there.

In pretty much every defense of AndrewS she seemed to slip in a backhanded dig at AndrewS, as if she were ready to turn on him if and when it were useful to her. As it is, she gets to be the stalwart defender of the innocent townie, but she also left the door open to hammer him, point out her ongoing low-level mistrust and say that she was going with the town's wishes. Or something. Anyway, it certainly is odd.

Glork, do you have anything to say about Mgm's reply to your accusation? I think

someone

owes someone an apology...

[MrBuddyLee]

How, and in what order, did you go about compiling the results of your analysis?

This is borderline distractive from the meat of my post.

As always, I isolate everyone's posts once a week or so and particularly after lynches, take notes on each of them, then fill in the holes with a start-to-finish read for context. I work alphabetically unless I'm short on time in which case I limit the analysis to my top 2-3 suspects.

[Glork]

MBL: Okay, that sounds fair enough. I was looking for a possible inconsistency in your response, but it seems to flesh out well enough for me.


Adele/MGM: I don't owe anybody an apology, and I don't think I was the least bit out-of-line (or word-twisting) by accusing MGM of fishing for information. What we know is that MGM suggested that Spectrumvoid claim. Whether he was doing it "in the interests of her survival" as MGM claims, or because he was interested to see if she reallly was a power-role (and thus a prime candidate to kill and test for the existence of a Doc) is not something that can be shown one way or another at this time. Obviously, I am leaning heavily towards the latter.

Also, MGM, I would debate the point about townies not asking if someone wants them to claim. Claiming is always relevant, whether you're a power role or not, and I

do

see townies talk about claiming before (or without) actually claiming. I think that power roles are somewhat more

likely

to talk about it in the manner that SV did, but it was far from certain that she was power, which also makes me think that scum would've wanted to get that bit of information for sure one way or another.

I also feel that, if you thought that SV was a power-role and didn't want her lynched, you would have stepped up and actually

defended

her, rather than just telling her to claim. If you think she's power, and other players hadn't picked up on that fact, wouldn't it be in your best interest to derail her wagon without simply outing her status as a power role?


I mean, I already know that MGM and Adele are probably scum together, but seriously. They're making my job a wee bit too easy.



Thesp, I want to hear from you soon. I want you to answer my previous question, and I'd like you to comment on a handful of players at the core of the discussion. I'd also like you to address MBL's theory head-on. It interests me, though it's not really why I've got you on my list.

[Mgm]

You can try longwinded defenses, but with a deadline looming, that's not really the best option. If you need to avert a bandwagon with little time left, claiming is simply the best option. You may disagree, but SV obviously agreed.

It doesn't really matter what I say. It was still his decision.

[Mgm]

Just wondering... anyone wants me to claim?

Hum. I hadn't thought about that. Your perogative, I guess. You hit Lynch -2, and you're currently at 5 votes. Personally, I'd say "not yet," but if you think it's necessary, do whatever you feel like doing.

If you thought claiming was such a bad idea for SV, then why didn't you try to dissuade him from it?

[Mr Stoofer]

Vote Count

Glork: 3 (Patrick Cogito Ergo Sum Mgm)
Mgm: 2 (Glork, Fritzler)
Thesp: 1 (MrBuddyLee)

Not voting: Adele ChannelDelibird Ether Nightfall Thesp Zindaras

Looking for 7 votes for a lynch!

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Glork: 3 (Patrick Cogito Ergo Sum MgM)

You forgot about commas.

[Mgm]

Mod

, why did you capitalize the last M in my username?

[Mr Stoofer]

Because I love you.

[Thesp]

Thesp, I want to hear from you soon. I want you to answer my previous question, and I'd like you to comment on a handful of players at the core of the discussion. I'd also like you to address MBL's theory head-on. It interests me, though it's not really why I've got you on my list.

Sorry, my missing days is starting to snowball on me. Presuming this is the question you are referring to:

EDIT: Actually, I just found something that I really don't like about Thesp. His "This day has gone on waaaaaaaaay too long" comment (Post 256) came a mere nine days after the start of Day One (Fri, Jan 26 to Sun, Feb 04). Thesp, would you mind explaining why you think slightly over a week makes a day that's "way too long"?

I think after a certain amount of time (usually better measured by posts than real time), most of the useful stuff gets buried by inanity. I think extremely long days tend to

hurt

the town rather than help it. As far as MBL's theory...

Voted Andrew, never moved it. Pushed it aggressively. Created a list of four and advocated a vig of the most "useless" one in this game. A lot of overt manipulation and leading of the town. Most notably, though he was pushy about his theories and his scumlist, he didn't try to derail the IH vig even though IH wasn't on his scumlist. Looks like scum happy with the bad vig decision, making a minimal alternate vig suggestion without really trying to make it happen. Aggressive when it suits, passive when it suits.

...

The sheer amount of unusual attention paid to a Thespwagon D1 leads me to believe it was part of a scum strategy discussed N0. Whether or not Thesp was a part of it, it looks like scum saw the benefit in it, and if they didn't plan it ahead of time, it looks like some followed each others' leads in making it a notable D1 event.

vote: Thesp, mafia godfather recklessly unafraid of investigation N1 and drawing attention away from his babes of doom.

It's an...unusual...theory, which seems to put the cart before the horse. Notably, in his post of thoughts on the game, it includes mutually contradictory theories, which are perfectly natural in and of themselves (who hasn't been conflicted about who's scum?), but a number of them expect me not to be scum. The idea that there was a "sheer amount of unusual attention paid to a Thespwagon D1" is intriguing, but I find unmoving, particularly since the most vocal pusher of the wagon I recall was CES, who doesn't receive an FOS. (I'm also not sure what benefit a deliberate D1 Thespwagon would achieve, as its defined randomness is hardly worth a cop investigation, which are more properly reserved for lurkers and the like.) I do agree I didn't fight hard enough against the IH vig, though I contest IH should not have been vigged, nor should spectrumvoid have revealed her target in the first place.

I still find ChannelDelibird disconcerting. I need to examine the voting patterns D1 still.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

I think after a certain amount of time (usually better measured by posts than real time), most of the useful stuff gets buried by inanity. I think extremely long days tend to hurt the town rather than help it. As far as MBL's theory...

Seriously? I just thought it was part of the "AndrewS needs to die"-shtick.

FoS: Thesp

[Glork]

So, just to be crystla clear: Nine days is "extremely long," in your opinion?

[Thesp]

So, just to be crystla clear: Nine days is "extremely long," in your opinion?

I thought I explicitly mentioned it's usually better understood by posts than real time, and here there was already plenty of substance. It seems to me that the prolonged day only served to out a power role before ending the day with the already-headed-towards AndrewS lynch, correct?

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

In hindsight, yes, but you didn't know that then. And the Day was young by any measure.

[MrBuddyLee]

modprods: Ether, Zindy please. Day's nearly nine days old already and we haven't lynched anyone...

[Fritzler]

vote: Thesp,

mafia godfather recklessly unafraid of investigation N1 and drawing attention away from his babes of doom.

FOS: Ether, Adele

I'm more likely to trust thesp than adele.

Vote: adele

[Glork]

modprods: Ether, Zindy please. Day's nearly nine days old already and we haven't lynched anyone...

Ether's in London for a week... I think she said she'd have some access, though.


Stoof, you should track her down and meet her.

[Adele]

So, just to be crystla clear: Nine days is "extremely long," in your opinion?

I thought I explicitly mentioned it's usually better understood by posts than real time, and here there was already plenty of substance.

And the Day was young by any measure.

/disagree.
In terms of numbers of posts, this game is already longer than the average mini theme game, with only 25% extra players. Just sayin'.
I can see what Thesp is getting at. Once you reach a certain point, it's somewhat belaboured to try to get more info out of the day than there is already. However, I don't see how it follows (in an a priori fashion; obviously it went bad this time) that the info likely to come out is info the town want kept quiet. What if SV had claimed... unnightkillable vigmason? OK, not that, she's not dumb and that's pumpkintastic, but you get my point, I hope.

(I found the mean of the number of posts in complete theme games on the front page of Coney island to be 431 (SD=194) and the median to be 468, for the geeks)

I'm more likely to trust thesp than adele.

...if you have a tendency to trust Thesp more, yet he and I are just as likely to draw a scum role, shouldn't you be counterbalancing you inclination to trust Thesp rather than use it as an excuse? Or do I misunderstand you with my brain being all in stats mode?

...I just noticed that "Stats" is a palindrome

[Fritzler]

I'm more likely to trust thesp than adele.

...if you have a tendency to trust Thesp more, yet he and I are just as likely to draw a scum role, shouldn't you be counterbalancing you inclination to trust Thesp rather than use it as an excuse? Or do I misunderstand you with my brain being all in stats mode?

...I just noticed that "Stats" is a palindrome

A) Racecar
B) i meant this game in particular, not in general
C) Duh
D) how many people did you kill last night?
E) how many were mormons?

[Adele]

I work with a Mormon. In, like, RL. Why?

[MrBuddyLee]

Adele, your post on Ether moved the game forward. Your most recent post was twice as many words but doesn't appear to have stated anything particularly relevant to finding scum. Making neutral observations on Day 2 without attaching significant opinion to them is something I find detachedly scummy. Do you concur?

[Adele]

Adele, your post on Ether moved the game forward. Your most recent post was twice as many words but doesn't appear to have stated anything particularly relevant to finding scum. Making neutral observations on Day 2 without attaching significant opinion to them is something I find detachedly scummy. Do you concur?

With which bit? I'm not certain it's a scumtell, and I don't think I'm doing that. After all, the Ether post was today; I'm just not always on top form. I pull myself in here after a long day (insert game-irrelevent self-pity here) and I know I

have

to post, because if I don't post in every game pretty much every time I come onsite I'll slip into lurking in whichever's toughest. It's not all gold, and I never said it was. A typical game with me - whether pro-town or not - usually has a mixture of helpful posts and less helpful posts, with the occasional spam mixed in.

I do find it scummy, though, that you attach scumminess to a single post, not because that particular, individual post has anything scummy in it but because it's not as contributory as you'd ideally like. In fact, most of your attacks on me today seem (to me) to be a bit straw-clutchy.

[MrBuddyLee]

Nah that wasn't an attack per se, I'm basically asking you to flesh out your suspicions in the next day or two.