Open 512: See Nine Plus Plus (Game Ovah)

[Saki]

@Tunnel - DO NOT SUPPOSE I WILL ALWAYS AGREE WITH YOU. I AM NOT YOUR MINI ME! GOT IT!

Anyone else getting a really bad vibe from this.

[Does Bo Know]

Votecount 1.37

[L-2] Varsoon - jmo16mla, Dyslexicon, Titus, TunnelVision, Flench
[L-4] TunnelVision - CherryDrPepper, Paschendale, Varsoon
[L-6] jmo16mla - StubbsKVM
[L-6] Titus - Saki
[L-6] StubbsKVM - oriole

Not Voting: Vote Me, Glass

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch!

Deadline is Friday, August 2nd, 2013 at 7:30 PM CST ((expired on 2013-08-02 19:30:00)).

---

StubbsKVM is V/LA until July 22nd.

[CherryDrPepper]

@Tunnel - DO NOT SUPPOSE I WILL ALWAYS AGREE WITH YOU. I AM NOT YOUR MINI ME! GOT IT!

Anyone else getting a really bad vibe from this.

Yes it seems like "Hey our buddying is getting too damn obvious"

[Titus]

Look, I'll argue my case how I see fit. Yeah, it won't persuade you but my goal isn't to persuade, my goal is to find the truth. Some people (probably scum) will never want to lynch in a group where someone is likely capable of being confirmed as scum. Scum being either Saki or Varsoon is as close to confirmed as we can get on day 1. So I will harp on that point until one of them flips scum.

If you are town Cherry, this isn't good play. Claiming a PR role cannot be a total pass on a lynch day 1, especially when roles are essentially unverifiable. If you can come up with a plan that would prove whether or not BOTH Saki and Varsoon were indeed roleblockers, I could be convinced to change my mind. However, I'm pretty sure there isn't one. I'm not just going to change my mind because you FoS me for it.

The biggest issue I have with my Varsoon read is that Stubbs, my other scum read, left his vote there and vanished. That move doesn't really seem to be consistent with scum bussing.

Also, on what planet am I buddying Paschendale, I've come thisclose to calling Paschendale stupid if I haven't actually said it outright. Wanting to make sure people can actually scumhunt is not buddying at all. My biggest gripe with Pasch's shut up post was that he made me feel restrained in how I go after scum. The last thing I'm going to do is get in his way if lord forbids he has a plan. Yet, I'm not seeing a plan out of Pasch at all. I'm just seeing... Derp we should lynch the lurkers because being wrong is too valuable. I can take some risk especially when, in the remote chance I am wrong, the other one is almost certainly scum.

CherryDrPepper, Saki's reactions have for the most part been genuine. You seem to greatly discount any possibility that Varsoon is scum. Prove Varsoon is town. Use clear language.


@Tunnel, looking through Glass's ISO now.

[Titus]

@Tunnel - DO NOT SUPPOSE I WILL ALWAYS AGREE WITH YOU. I AM NOT YOUR MINI ME! GOT IT!

Anyone else getting a really bad vibe from this.

Yes it seems like "Hey our buddying is getting too damn obvious"

If we're both scum, why the hell would we need to buddy each other? That makes no sense and would be beyond moronic.

[CherryDrPepper]

You think im scum Titus?

Yes claiming a PR should be a pass. Why? Because what if he really is a PR? Youre under the assumption that he is auto scum. The only thing Im saying is lynching him now is a bad idea. Im not saying he cant be scum but I am saying these things can be proven at a later time. It does not need to be day one and what ever Saki's alignment is, it wont affect Varsoon's.

BTW, scum buddy, whether they notice it or not. There are 3 strategies. Buddy, bus or distance. When you two continuously agree with each other, no matter how useless or wrong the points are, then you're buddying.

[CherryDrPepper]

scum buddies*

[Titus]

Except Tunnel and I aren't constantly agreeing with each other. I think there's a possibility you are scum Tunnel dismissed that. Naturally, two town players should be alarmed (as we both are) that we see the Varsoon lynch so similarly. You're also forgetting a strategy on your scum list, ignorance. If you are scum, I should look to see who you're ignoring.

Also, any interaction could be described by one of the four categories. That's a bit of a joke Cherry.


@Tunnel - As for the Glass thing (supposing post #616) in the neighborhood, I don't see anything inherently scummy about that. Saki/Varsoon is where we should be focusing IMO. I also don't see him as dodging. Your post in 621 also looked like a rhetorical question. The lack of follow-up indicates that as well.

[Varsoon]

@Saki: Hey, do you have a fever? it's gettin' hell'a cold in this thread.

Just won a perfect scum game if anyone wants to check it out, Calvin and Hobbes Mafia.

Anyways, I agree with Cherry on this one, but I'm hesitant on the Titus vote until we get more to analyze on that slot. For now, TV's the best lynch.

[Titus]

@Tunnel - DO NOT SUPPOSE I WILL ALWAYS AGREE WITH YOU. I AM NOT YOUR MINI ME! GOT IT!

Anyone else getting a really bad vibe from this.

That puts words in my mouth and says what I will do. One thing I will always be is fiercely independent. I'll bitch at anyone, even confirmed town, who tries to tell me what to do.

I'll tell people when I agree with them, but that doesn't give them license to predict what I will do.

[CherryDrPepper]

ignorance and distancing are similar. You focusing on nonpoints is consistent to your scum game. And if you two aren't always in agreement, then there was no need for that fake rage post that said "IM NOT YOUR MINI ME"

[Titus]

He explicitly called me his mini-me. So yeah, I'm going to get pissed at that. No one puts words into my mouth before I even get a chance to speak. I don't care how much I usually agree with them.

You actually focused on the minor detail. You accuse me and Tunnel of buddying when it makes no sense to do so this early for scum players. However, it would make sense for scum to want to divide players who seemed to be thinking on the same wavelength and thought each other were town.

[CherryDrPepper]

The minor detail was "i forgot to put ignorance"

Anyway, that whole "it makes no sense for scum to buddy" is false because it happens and it feels like youre trying to wash your hands off this whole idea

[Titus]

Well, whatever scum do that so early are utterly moronic. Also, it makes no sense for scum to buddy so publicly, that's my point. Scum will likely agree with each other on points that are false and that they know are false. Active town doesn't mean buddying.

[Flench]

2. Flench did the exact same thing to me but he gets to be off the hook for it 'cause analysis?

Ok Saki, the 10th time is the charm. Yes I left my vote on you. I did it because you went afk from the game after I voted on you, the wagon stayed at L-3 until you returned. So one day you return, pretty much asked Titus to vote for you, then vote yourself, then stay at L-1 for all of 30 minutes before going back to L-3. I was gone that day as you noted in an earlier post, I was not posting in other games, just gone.

I don't know why you keep bringing this up as though I intended for you to be lynched when in fact you created the danger yourself.

But don't worry, you are so clearly noobtown that you are safe and can continue posting your noobtown posts.

[Titus]

@Flench, do you think there's any possibility that both Varsoon and Saki are scum and that their third partner is really against lynching between them?

[Titus]

I am asking that because I cannot come up with a rationale for Varsoon and Saki both not voting each other.

[Varsoon]

@Titus: Saki's not my scum partner.

[Flench]

3. So a third senario would be varsoon being mafia and not knowing the setup and thinking his counter claim would make him the sole town RB. I think you are giving the guy too much credit, all of his meta defenses have been poorly strung together as everyone has pointed out. I think he just messed up and thought if he counter claimed he could kill Saki and would be the only RB. All of his posts have basically been saying "you better consider my master plan" but I don't think there is one, he just took a risky play counter claiming what now looks like town Saki, and not reading the setup backfired. He has been scrambling since he CCd. Now he is just using the chance they are both town as a get out of jail free card.

Vote: Varsoon

So that is what I think is going on.

I don't understand why Pasche is so strongly against lynching Varsoon. It's not just the statistics, that's like, less than half of the argument.

I think the mafia is made up of Varsoon, Cherry, Stubbs, and Glass in that order of certainty. For me this is what fits.

I still can't understand the case against lynching Varsoon, nothing anyone has said has made sense to me yet on that front. You are welcome to keep trying though.

[Varsoon]

@Flench: Use the brain-thing. My lynch is bad because it's an easy way out. You know who'll fly under the radar on my lynch? Scum. Ergo, my lynch, regardless of alignment and exclusive info, is garbarge.

[jmo16mla]

Whatever.
UNVOTE:
Since no one is willing to compromise in a reasonable amount of time.

Content when I can. Bad day.

[Varsoon]

JMO, there better be actual content.

Cheer up, life's grand.

[Paschendale]

1. His other head is not there.
2. Flench did the exact same thing to me but he gets to be off the hook for it 'cause analysis?
3. Her arguments aren't scummy? ...how?
4. Yer all over the place with your read on me and Varsoon, Pasche.
5. ....I post about buddying. Oriole does an ISO. Flench makes us a 'pair of fighters' list. And you think that a Varsoon lynch will provide no information?

really, pasche.

1. Okay, the only head that's here is pissy and unhelpful.
2. And you didn't understand that I disapprove? Did the worth "otherwise" confuse you?
3. Wrong, but not scummy, no.
4. No, I'm saying that people who are giving you a townread are not justifying it. I haven't actually offered a read on you very much.
5. See Varsoon's response. Everyone citing the same reason for a lynch tells us nothing when it flips, because either everyone was right to do so or everyone was wrong to do so.

Jmo is also relying on the 1v1 scenario. PLEASE CAN WE DROP THIS SHITTY ARGUMENT? That said, he voted Varsoon long before the big long argument, and left his vote there. No re-evaluation and not even a little bit of analysis of anyone else. Scummy.

because hes scum? fuck off.

Then back it up.

@Paschendale, I think your rationalizing and being scared about lynching Varsoon. My argument is not and has never been, lynching Varsoon just because of the math.

No, I'm not afraid to lynch him at all. I don't want to lynch him now, without getting everyone to talk about it. Maybe I am being overcautious, but there's still people who have barely spoken and who are relying on bad arguments. I object to only really dealing with one question on day 1.

Whatever.
UNVOTE:
Since no one is willing to compromise in a reasonable amount of time.

Content when I can. Bad day.

Good. I'll want to talk about your content when you post it.

When we have things other than these claims to discuss, and Varsoon's contributions don't measure up, we can absolutely lynch him.

[Titus]

@Paschendale, I really do not like this course of action, but it if we are going to lynch outside of Varsoon/Saki then we might as well get on with it and start looking. I am confident that Varsoon will remain an option because he will continue to act scummy because he is indeed scum. My vote will remain on Varsoon because I see him as the scummiest independent of the math.

Tomorrow, I am mostly going to be lurking. I have a busy morning full of work meetings and I want to take some time away from posting to look at various forms of association. I don't intend to put actual percentages as Flench did but looking at associations will give us a good understanding of the game play.

@JMO, Even if you aren't my top scum suspect, you're still acting pretty scummy and prod dodging a lot. You need to post content pretty soon here that isn't rehashing or else you'll likely be assumed scum.

[Does Bo Know]

Xiao Long is replacing Vote Me. Please welcome him to the game!
~DBK