The MafiaScum Minecraft Thread - AllTheMods 9!!! - NEW Vanilla?

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New Vanilla Server?

Yes, on latest stable version; with fun events & mini-games!
3
33%
Yes, on latest stable version; for consistency & community! (no plugins)
3
33%
Yes, on "snapshots"/development versions; bleeding edge! (definitely no plugins)
0
No votes
Yes, with Spigot/Bukkit/server "plugins" (or commands like /tpa, /home, etc.)
3
33%
Yes, but I'll post with my specific thoughts and ideas!
0
No votes
 
Total votes: 9

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Post Post #14500 (ISO) » Thu Jul 18, 2013 4:46 am

Post by Rhinox »

Rhinox wrote:Just stay with Mafiacraft 1.x and deal with the known issues?
Know issues being - ME systems deleting, Chunks reseting, and hangups that cause the server to stop responding and needing to be restarted, sometimes frequently - To be completely honest, I don't know how to deal with / fix those issues, and maybe never will. That gets into areas of troubleshooting that just can't be easily learned. Especially if M/klaz don't know whats going on, there's no way i'm going to be able to just step in and fix it. Lag and crashes on DW20 were annoying as hell, but when people start losing stuff thats even a bigger problem. I could make no guarentee that at any time you might stick two blocks next to each other than don't like each other and completely reset whatever chunk you're working in causing you to lose all your stuff. To be fair I can't guarentee that wouldn't happen with a new world mafiacraft 2.0 or any pack, but it might be possible to at least minimize the problem by leaning out the modpack to something more focused rather than a try to do everything pack, and eliminating problem mods.

I really like the existing world but people have been getting frustrated and stopped playing due to the crashing and the losing stuff. Over the past couple weeks I thought most of us were under the assumption that a reset was going to be needed to fix the problems anyways, and have adjusted our playing as such.
In post 14498, izakthegoomba wrote:If we really have to scrap the current world - and I'd really rather we didn't - I think FTB Ultimate is the best option.
Ultimate as-is, or with some subset of mods deactivated?
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Post Post #14501 (ISO) » Thu Jul 18, 2013 4:47 am

Post by Rhinox »

Also, any comments on ditching modding altogether and just playing vanilla, which would be much more likely to be problem free and last a very long time?
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Post Post #14502 (ISO) » Thu Jul 18, 2013 5:39 am

Post by izakthegoomba »

In post 14500, Rhinox wrote:
In post 14498, izakthegoomba wrote:If we really have to scrap the current world - and I'd really rather we didn't - I think FTB Ultimate is the best option.
Ultimate as-is, or with some subset of mods deactivated?
I'd say as-is, though I'd be happy to config Gregtech for you to make it more reasonable, since I'm the one with the most experience of it.
In post 14501, Rhinox wrote:Also, any comments on ditching modding altogether and just playing vanilla, which would be much more likely to be problem free and last a very long time?
Pure vanilla survival lost it's charm for me quite a while ago.
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Post Post #14503 (ISO) » Thu Jul 18, 2013 5:50 am

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In post 14501, Rhinox wrote:Also, any comments on ditching modding altogether and just playing vanilla, which would be much more likely to be problem free and last a very long time?
If I'm playing vanilla then I'm playing CTM, or similar. I don't really want to play SMP vanilla, so I'd either find a different FTB server or play SSP FTB.
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Post Post #14504 (ISO) » Thu Jul 18, 2013 6:05 am

Post by Maestro »

If people want different Mods in the pack - which they've been saying they do - you should have a new world. If you don't want a new world, don't change the pack. It's that simple.
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Post Post #14505 (ISO) » Thu Jul 18, 2013 6:06 am

Post by Rhinox »

In post 14502, izakthegoomba wrote:I'd say as-is, though I'd be happy to config Gregtech for you to make it more reasonable, since I'm the one with the most experience of it.
The reason I asked is because as-is would have many of the same issues we left the DW20 server for, no? Bad lag and frequent crashes? Its got a few mods that were purposefully left out of Mafiacraft for performance reasons. Its got mystcraft, and as an admin I'm not going to be making it my job policing ages - if it can't be used as it's intended, then it shouldn't be part of a server pack IMO. If we went to the FTB ultimate pack, we'd probably have to be deactivating quite a few of those mods right up front.
Maestro wrote:If people want different MOds in the pack - which they've been saying they do - you should have a new world. If you don't want a new world, don't change the pack. It's that simple.
Does that mean the issues with the hangups and chunk resets have been fixed?
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Post Post #14506 (ISO) » Thu Jul 18, 2013 6:18 am

Post by Klazam »

No, issues have not been fixed. But they haven't happened lately.

I would strongly recommend against FTB ultimate- due to existing problem mods (Mystcraft, Thaumacraft) and lack of Tinker's Construct, which many has said they enjoy.

Maestro, could you please send rhino a pm explaining how he can take over with modpack submissions with the FTB team?

Also, I'd recommend you hold off a couple weeks before submission. It'd be a good idea to test the pack you put together before submission. Ask Maru to get you a test server.
Last edited by Klazam on Thu Jul 18, 2013 6:27 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Post Post #14507 (ISO) » Thu Jul 18, 2013 6:21 am

Post by Klazam »

I can send you a pm detailing how to put together a mod pack. I'll also turn over the MAfiaCraft Update doc to you.
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Post Post #14508 (ISO) » Thu Jul 18, 2013 6:33 am

Post by Maestro »

In post 14502, izakthegoomba wrote:
In post 14500, Rhinox wrote:
In post 14498, izakthegoomba wrote:If we really have to scrap the current world - and I'd really rather we didn't - I think FTB Ultimate is the best option.
Ultimate as-is, or with some subset of mods deactivated?
I'd say as-is, though I'd be happy to config Gregtech for you to make it more reasonable, since I'm the one with the most experience of it.
I can give a few good reasons why I 100% won't play if this happens, and why this is a bad idea if your goal is to make the world MORE stable, rather than less so:
  • 1.5.2
  • Mystcraft
  • Thaumcraft
  • MFFS, SoulShards, RedPower, XyCraft, ...
1) If we're not updated to 1.5.2 (which Ultimate is not, last time I checked) people will lose interest quickly, having seen the new features available in 80% of the Mods, and not having access to them. This would also mean that you'd probably eventually need to make the world 1.5.2 at some point, or stick with these old features. A jump between major Minecraft versions can and will fuck up the world worse than anything else that's ever been done - if you don't start on 1.5.2 and you eventually want to go 1.6?! That will NOT be a stable world at all.

2) We've all experienced the problems with Mystcraft and Thaumcraft. Unless you ban all Mystcraft Age creation (in which case I seriously smh at even including the Mod at all) you're always going to have persisting world issues with Mystcraft. Even if Thaumcraft gets fixed, because of my point above you guys won't HAVE the fixes on the server because you won't be updated to the newest version.

3) Several of these Mods (and there're probably more I'm not thinking of right now) have had complete rewrites or have changed drastically since FTB Ultimate. Not only this, but Ultimate doesn't have EVERYTHING. Several of the Mods people have been 'asking for' recently, or that people on the server have grown to love, aren't even INCLUDED in FTB Ultimate. Here's a short list; I'm looking at the Modlist for Ultimate right now:
  • Tinker's Construct (I know, I'm surprised too)
  • Natura (It's pretty nice WITHOUT any EXBL or BoP, I admitted to Klaz last night on KMP)
  • ExtraTrees (Good luck finding a 1.4.7 version in existence, let alone in the pack)
  • DamageIndicators
I thought there would be more, tbqh, but even losing those 4 kinda pisses me off, especially when you factor in that 90% of the rest of the Mods will be missing huge chunks of features that're only in 1.5.2 versions. I'd HIGHLY recommend NOT going with FTB Ultimate or anything that's not MC v1.5.2.

P-Edit: My recommendation to Rhino for pack submission to FTB would be to disregard any previous threads of conversation between me/Klaz/izak and the Private Server Modpack Team over at FTB. I suggest that Rhinox simply read this page and ask any questions he may have - the submission process is simple once you understand it. I'll also point him here, where he should be getting most of the permissions for most of the Mods in existence. :P
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Post Post #14509 (ISO) » Thu Jul 18, 2013 7:33 am

Post by EspeciallyTheLies »

Ack so much posts. Rhinox, I have thoughts about this stuff (but I'm at work, so later) but really quickly:

- No to Vanilla only. I'd play sometimes but I love the mods. I dont care about updates as long as its fun. When I want Vanilla, I go on the XBox.

- Mafiacraft 2.0. And YES to stable world fot at least a year. This is what I was expecting with the current world.


- Resets are important, but agreed it should only happen after the majority of players on the server have gotten what they wanted out of it.


- For now, I think it's vital we research/discuss/test extensively a lighter set of mods. Sticking with 1.5 is great because by the time a year goes by, some of our favorite mods should be updated for 1.6 and possibely other new awesome things to think about. But later.

Lastly, I would be happy to help you, Rhi, as a back up admin, and certainly with testing, learning, etc.

<3

P.s. i didn read this entire page so apologies if I've repeated something someone else has already said.
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Post Post #14510 (ISO) » Thu Jul 18, 2013 8:07 am

Post by Rhinox »

In post 14508, Maestro wrote:P-Edit: My recommendation to Rhino for pack submission to FTB would be to disregard any previous threads of conversation between me/Klaz/izak and the Private Server Modpack Team over at FTB. I suggest that Rhinox simply read this page and ask any questions he may have - the submission process is simple once you understand it. I'll also point him here, where he should be getting most of the permissions for most of the Mods in existence. :P
I don't understand. You mean completely ignore Mafiacraft and basically submit an entirely new private server pack? Refullfilling all the permission requirements you guys already did when setting up the pack in the first place? That seems... inefficient :(
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Post Post #14511 (ISO) » Thu Jul 18, 2013 8:09 am

Post by Maestro »

In post 14509, EspeciallyTheLies wrote:P.s. i didn read this entire page so apologies if I've repeated something someone else has already said.
nope, just silly people thinking FTB Ultimate is good idea, carry on :lol:
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Post Post #14512 (ISO) » Thu Jul 18, 2013 8:28 am

Post by Klazam »

In post 14510, Rhinox wrote:
In post 14508, Maestro wrote:P-Edit: My recommendation to Rhino for pack submission to FTB would be to disregard any previous threads of conversation between me/Klaz/izak and the Private Server Modpack Team over at FTB. I suggest that Rhinox simply read this page and ask any questions he may have - the submission process is simple once you understand it. I'll also point him here, where he should be getting most of the permissions for most of the Mods in existence. :P
I don't understand. You mean completely ignore Mafiacraft and basically submit an entirely new private server pack? Refullfilling all the permission requirements you guys already did when setting up the pack in the first place? That seems... inefficient :(
98% of the permissions are already given.

This way, you have full control of the thing from start to finish without having to rely on us or use us as a crutch, like we had to do partially with maru.

The reason why i left now, and not after 2.0 is because i wanted you to not be gimped by decisions we made in the past.
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Post Post #14513 (ISO) » Thu Jul 18, 2013 8:40 am

Post by fuzzybutternut »

My two cents:

The world we're in now NEEDS to be reset because of existing things; however, as Klaz said, it hasn't happened lately, so it's not top priority. What I would LOVE to see happen is Mafiacraft 2.0 in minecraft 1.6.2. Just from watching the Forgecraft 2 series Direwolf puts out, and seeing what all the mod developers are doing for 1.6.2 makes me SO anxious about it.

FTB Ultimate is a no-go for reasons M explained. I'd likely not play either.

M, is that trick you learned with the ender chests possible in Mafiacraft? I don't see why not, and I think it'd be a good idea for those who have stuff they want to carry over.

2.0 is a definitely want in my book, though. As it stands right now, and many mod developers of the mods we use agree with me on this, the current versions of the mods we have are bugged and don't like to work together. Two that come to mind are forestry and MPS.
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Post Post #14514 (ISO) » Thu Jul 18, 2013 8:55 am

Post by Maestro »

Well, dav, the problem with the trick is that if Block or Item ID's change between MafiaCraft 1.x and 2.x (which they might unless you have the exact same Mods) you'd have the Blocks and Items changing semi-sporadically. I mean, with KMP Ultimate most of the stuff stayed the same, we just added on to the Block and Item ID's from KMP Engineer with the stuff we needed from KMP Explorer, but the Certus Quartz turned into Hidden Wooden Doors and I had some random saplings in there we definitely didn't have in KMP Engineer.

The other problem is there's no way to actively discern which stuff gets copied over if this is done. I mean, it might be an acceptable loss, but if you try that trick you're more than likely to get the content of EVERY Ender Chest copied over - you can't just pick and choose. Plus there's the fact that some people might feel cheated if their stuff is the stuff that gets royally fucked by ID changes, but I'm assuming somewhere near 2/3 of the items were fine when we did it.

Maybe the same would work for MafiaCraft, I dunno.

I'd be willing to explain how to do this Ender Chest trick or help do it myself when the switch happens, Rhinox, but basically I found where EnderStorage saves it's Chest Data, and since the data isn't linked to a world location (because Ender) it can technically be copied directly from one server-side world to the next. (Note: I did say server. This trick doesn't work in SSP.) It's pretty simple to do, but as I said since ID's may change within versions (they should if you're adding Mods and don't want the world to potentially be wonky) it'll probably be touch-and-go as a solution.
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Post Post #14515 (ISO) » Thu Jul 18, 2013 8:58 am

Post by Maestro »

Actually this trick may not even work outside of MCPC because it may be a result of the Bukkit-style worldsaves.
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Post Post #14516 (ISO) » Thu Jul 18, 2013 9:20 am

Post by fuzzybutternut »

It's just a suggestion. ^.^
I mean, yeah, it's not a perfect method, and people should understand that IF this method is done it's not guaranteed that it would work, etc, etc.
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Post Post #14517 (ISO) » Thu Jul 18, 2013 9:32 am

Post by blake5135 »

Maybe perhaps the community can just write down a list of X* items and PM them to rhinox/admin team and just get them spawned in on new world?
IF the ender trick doesn't work
* = admin team can decide on this whether it be a full inventory or a hotbar load

(Sorry for no commas and periods as those two buttons are royally fucked over on my keyboard)
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Post Post #14518 (ISO) » Thu Jul 18, 2013 10:50 am

Post by Rhinox »

In post 14512, Klazam wrote:98% of the permissions are already given.

This way, you have full control of the thing from start to finish without having to rely on us or use us as a crutch, like we had to do partially with maru.

The reason why i left now, and not after 2.0 is because i wanted you to not be gimped by decisions we made in the past.
Well yes, but on the spreadsheet M linked to a lot of mod permissions say to inform the mod author and provide links to the mod or the mod's wiki, which may have all been done by you guys for mafiacraft 1.x but if I'm submitting a new modpack that would have to be redone by me? I remember a lot of screenshots of forum posts and what not when you guys were setting up mafiacraft 1.0 asking for permissions for all the mods, is it already not done like that anymore? Or am I missing something?

Also, if I'm submitting a new pack, am I able to submit it as a versioned 2.0 update to mafiacraft or is it going to be a new pack, new security code, will I need new mod images for the launcher, etc. Or can I just put in my update submission that I'm taking over the admin responsibilities for the mafiacraft server from here on out - and I'd assume I won't be able to do that without whoever is currently responsible for modpack submissions approving the transfer of ownership so to speak. Or is that not allowable?

------------------------------------------------------------------

As expected there are different opinions for what should happen, but everyone wants the modded server still / wouldn't play on vanilla if modded was gone, yes? So thats one thing settled.


As for the server itself and the modpack, when the server started having problems, M and klaz started getting burnt out, and it was getting ever increasingly more clear that the server had started dying a slow death, I had started thinking about putting a super lean and focused modpack together for myself for SSP. That pack was going to essentially be based on Mafiacraft 1.x, but with mods removed that caused problems or had bugs or I wouldn't use or need.

I never started putting my list together, but as a first pass,
NON-OFFICIAL
look through the list, my pack would probably have looked something like:

Bibliocraft
Buildcraft
NEI
EnderStorage
ChickenChunks
Thermal Expansion
Forestry
Extra Bees (Extra Trees, Binnie's Mod, whatever it is now)
NEI Plugin
Inventory Tweaks
Iron Chests
Railcraft
Tinker's Construct
VoxelMap

Which would mean, getting cut list would include (again, this is
NOT OFFICIAL
):
Spoiler:
AE
OmniTools
ComputerCraft
Damage Indicators
EE3
EBXL
Flat Signs
Obby Plates
Grav gun
Power Converters
MFRL
Nether Ores
MPS
Ropes+
Runic Dust
Secret Rooms
Twilight Forest
Xeno's Reliquary


So there's more cut than kept. Its a lean buildcraft centered and focused pack. Theres room for a terrain gen mod (It could be EBXL but I would have gone with vanilla terrain gen in my own pack, maybe added Natura), and there's room for an armor mod (suggestions?) (MPS causes lag and GUI's are broken plus I'm not keep on flying around as the primary method of transportation). Some of the mods in the cut list wouldn't have to be cut if there is a compelling reason for keeping them (such as people won't play without them, and they haven't ever shown to cause problems), but in the interest of keeping the pack lean and stable I'd feel pretty happy with that first cut.

How would everyone feel about a server that was trimmed down to look something like that, as a starting point? Obviously a world reset would be required but I feel like a pack like that would have the best chance of being stable for a long time.
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Post Post #14519 (ISO) » Thu Jul 18, 2013 11:22 am

Post by fuzzybutternut »

Would you be open to suggestion on additions? I agree that we don't need all the mods currently in the modpack, but there are SOME that I think are very beneficial.
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Post Post #14520 (ISO) » Thu Jul 18, 2013 12:13 pm

Post by blake5135 »

Rhinox IRC?
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Post Post #14521 (ISO) » Thu Jul 18, 2013 12:41 pm

Post by Rhinox »

In post 14519, fuzzybutternut wrote:Would you be open to suggestion on additions?
Yes of course. Mainly using that as a starting point for discussion. I would hope we could have the bare minimum that would be enough for just about everyone, and I figure the best place to start would be the bare minimum that would make me happy.
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Post Post #14522 (ISO) » Thu Jul 18, 2013 12:50 pm

Post by Andrius »

RHINOX HAS MODPOWERS
THE GET OFF MY LAWN PARTY IS IN CONTROL OF THE SERVER

THE REVOLUTION HAS SUCCEEDED MY BROTHERS
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Post Post #14523 (ISO) » Thu Jul 18, 2013 12:53 pm

Post by Klazam »

In post 14522, Andrius wrote:RHINOX HAS MODPOWERS
THE GET OFF MY LAWN PARTY IS IN CONTROL OF THE SERVER

THE REVOLUTION HAS SUCCEEDED MY BROTHERS
heh
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Post Post #14524 (ISO) » Thu Jul 18, 2013 1:13 pm

Post by fuzzybutternut »

In post 14520, blake5135 wrote:Rhinox IRC?
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