NY 164: Maniacal Street Mafia (Anticlimatically finished.)

[Cephrir]

Desp is so right that case is the most incredible load of BS

I'm just disappointed in myself for not going through it and noticing this personally

Yes Pere you're right that vote came completely out of nowhere

[ffullisade]

Well, you had no problem calling my case on the dead town player crap. I guess your ISO will show similar disdain for all of the other cases on Slandaar. Otherwise, this looks very opportunistic, considering Nacho has no case on me besides "Useless", and you failed to comment on my case on Nacho.

There are cases and cases. Yours was hurried-looking shoot from the hip crap, which is not necessarily alignment indicative imo. What pings most about you are the vibes about your QT convo with ThAd re the vig kill and the subsequent night results. That and and growing uneasiness regarding your peripheral involvement in the thread since I joined the game.

The supersaturated solution crystallized.

If my vote is opportunistic, what are the subsequent votes?

- f

[AngryPidgeon]

One-Hundred-Twenty-Third Votecount

:

(Fifth Votecount of Day Four,

AKA, the "I actually beat mastin to a VC! " votecount.

)

<<< Not particularly hard to do, considering how much you've

been

doing it... >>>

Bulbazak - 5 (Human Destroyer, Nero Cain, ThAdmiral, Seanald, CrashTextDummie)

PeregrineV - 4 (Nachomamma8, ffullisade, Cephrir, Desperado)

Nachomamma8 - 2 (Bacde, PeregrineV)
Nero Cain - 1 (Bulbazak)
Rena - 1 (penguin_alien)

Not Voting - 2 (Rena, Amethyst Kitty)

With

15

alive, it's

8

to lynch.

Day Four's deadline is Wednesday, July 31st, @ 12:30 PM PST, which is in (expired on 2013-07-31 12:30:00).

Spoiler: Changes from last votecount

Bulbazak - 5 (Human Destroyer, Nero Cain, ThAdmiral, Seanald,

CrashTextDummie

)
Nachomamma8 - 2 (Bacde, PeregrineV)
Nero Cain - 1 (Bulbazak,

CrashTextDummie

)
Rena - 1 (

Cephrir

, penguin_alien)
PeregrineV - 4 (Nachomamma8,

ffullisade

,

Cephrir

,

Desperado

)
Amethyst Kitty - 0 (

Desperado

)

Not Voting - 2 (Rena, Amethyst Kitty,

ffullisade

)

Last votecount was page 199, post 4958.

Spoiler: Player Vote History D4

CrashTextDummie: Nero Cain->Bulbazak
Cephrir: Rena->PeregrineV
Nachomamma8: PeregrineV
PeregrineV: Nachomamma8
Nero Cain: Bulbazak
Bacde: Nachomamma8
Bulbazak: Nero Cain
Desperado: Amethyst Kitty->PeregrineV
penguin_alien: Rena
Seanald: Bulbazak
ThAdmiral: Bulbazak
Rena:
Amethyst Kitty:
ffullisade: PeregrineV
Human Destroyer: Bulbazak

Spoiler: Vote History D4

On Wed, Jul 7/10/13 @ 07:28a,

Human Destroyer

votes

Nachomamma8

in post 4831.
On Wed, Jul 7/10/13 @ 10:11a,

Nero Cain

votes

Bulbazak

in post 4832.
On Wed, Jul 7/10/13 @ 10:15a,

Bacde

votes

Nachomamma8

in post 4833.
On Wed, Jul 7/10/13 @ 02:24p,

Bulbazak

votes

Nero Cain

in post 4836.
On Wed, Jul 7/10/13 @ 02:33p,

Cephrir

votes

Rena

in post 4838.
On Thu, Jul 7/11/13 @ 02:26p,

PeregrineV

votes

Nachomamma8

in post 4867.
On Thu, Jul 7/11/13 @ 05:18p,

Nachomamma8

votes

PeregrineV

in post 4870.
On Thu, Jul 7/11/13 @ 06:04p,

CrashTextDummie

votes

Nero Cain

in post 4871.
On Fri, Jul 7/12/13 @ 08:38a,

Desperado

votes

Amethyst Kitty

in post 4879.
On Fri, Jul 7/12/13 @ 08:10p,

ThAdmiral

votes

Bulbazak

in post 4899.
On Sun, Jul 7/14/13 @ 04:25p,

Seanald

votes

Bulbazak

in post 4937.
On Mon, Jul 7/15/13 @ 00:12a,

penguin_alien

votes

Rena

in post 4942.
On Mon, Jul 7/15/13 @ 4:10p,

ffullisade

votes

PeregrineV

in post 4960.
On Mon, Jul 7/15/13 @ 4:15p,

Cephrir

votes

PeregrineV

in post 4961.
On Mon, Jul 7/15/13 @ 5:05p,

Desperado

votes

PeregrineV

in post 4965.
On Mon, Jul 7/15/13 @ 7:22p,

CrashTextDummie

votes

Bulbazak

in post 4966.

[PeregrineV]

@ Cephrir & Bulba-

Why did I vote Nacho?

Well,
4843
4844
He's got a point.

4632
Nacho quoting Nacho as the reason to tunnel me.

4782
Voting for a town read in a game that does not require a majority lynch.

(lots of posts)
Buddying ffulisade

Everchanging and confusing reads (spoiled below):

Spoiler: Senald scum/not scum, Bulba not scum but 4806

you know that i would not call somene town unless my gut hardly says.. Nero is town. and If feel you're town. So, Now stop pissing each other..

Unvote, Vote: Seanald

And also i want to know what your thoughts on Cephier.

Cephrir's probably town.

let's look at cephrir. does anybody seriously believe that cephrir has no idea what to do with thad's "trolling". omg, no. I mean that is what cephrir is saying, "I have no idea what to do about thad's trolling cos I have just never encountered it before!". oh plz.

I've learned that trolling can apparently throw people off in extremely weird ways.

bacde, you freak me out because dragonballz.

- f

this essentially is dragonballz
and sooner or later everything will just click and a bunch of scum will die and everything will be okay.

Fery makes me sad on so many levels. Like SUPER SAD. ~~~Actually I said this to Mara after the Donner Party game ended. There was something similar that was said here to something said there. Bulb had a total different reaction to it here which made me lean town on him mainly because he was SK in DP.

I don't get it.

- f

they're town.

The only argument I've seen in Nero's defense is that his play here reminds people of other town games of his. I find this to be a very unreliable use of meta, because it assumes that Nero-scum is incapable of emulating his town play.

I trust mollie's (and AA's, believe it or not) instincts when dealing with Nero. Sometimes he plays great, sometimes he plays incredibly scummily, self-destructs, etc.

My problem with your Nero case lately is that we still don't even know it's multiball. If it isn't, your entire case goes up in flames. I think my Seanald case is stronger than your Nero case, straight up.

two kills per night --> claimed vig who hasn't shot --> "blue" scum all sort of equals multiball
if ThAd gets counterclaimed by bullets and flips blue scum, then maybe it's not multiball but that's looking HIGHLY unlikely at this point.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go

ffery, I read this game and I don't think Seanald is scum here.
Do you agree or am I reading too much into his approach?

BULBAZAK HAS BEEN TOWN FOR THE WHOLE FUCKING GAME

FFERY MOLLIE IS CALLING BULBAZAK TOWN
FIX IT

Lack of scumreads even though 4-6 scum left (depending on your setup belief).

This case sucks.

- Bacde didn't have a point. His argument was "I've caught more scum than Nacho this game, so you should reconsider your townread on him (because that makes him scum)."

His point was that he has led the push hard on thez. He saw something that I didn't see, and thez flipped scum. So if he's seeing it again, then he's right, listen to him.

- Nacho quoted Nacho because you called him useless, so he posted what he felt were his most non-useless posts...with the obvious implication that they far outweigh what you might hypothetically include in a "Peregrine's Best Hits" style post.

Well, net result is if that was his best posting to prove I'm scum, I'm totally not convinced.

- Where did Nacho have Slandaar as a townread? I see him showing suspicion as early as 1852, and he voted him in 3585 as well. Also...weren't you actively requesting people to vote Slandaar?

I feel better about Slandaar now.

This doesn't mean we should focus on the neighbor group.

what is with this town and its shit wagons

Those wagons being Slandaar and Bulba.
I was asking these people.

Requesting

ThAd, ArcAngel, Bacde or Desp

moves their vote to Slandaar.

- What is your read on ffullisade and what specifically is scummy about Nacho's buddying?

I have a very slight town read on the slot, but ThAd had mentioned it as a vig target in previous nights, so maybe he's seeing something I'm not.
And Nacho saying he wants to connect (which I read as "detrmine whether they are town or scum") but buddying before that connection happens seems scummy.

- "Ever-changing" Seanald read: He applied pressure, did meta research, and changed his mind. What's scummy?

My meta research found the opposite.

- "Ever-changing" Bulb read: Blatant misrep, on a typo no less! You can't be serious. Both posts in succession:

My bad here. One word posts are usually spam so I tend to skip them.

[PeregrineV]

Otherwise, this looks very opportunistic, considering Nacho has no case on me besides "Useless", and you failed to comment on my case on Nacho.

Also this is a lie. Nacho hasn't cased you for being useless. You're the one who accused HIM of being useless.

New day- new fun. Night reads made me want to look for Eddie+bluescum connections, but I guess not.

If I were to do some selected readings, anyone have recommendations?

oh cool more useless crap

Alternately, if your reading indicates Seanald is town, then you should mention that.
Or, if you find an independent reason why Seanald is scummy, then you could mention that and vote him.
Or, if you find holes or weaknesses in Desparado's case you can point those out.

Oh, you're town catching up and looking at Desperado's case? If you find an independent reason why Seanald is town or scum, you can tell us! If you find something wrong with the case, let us know!

AKA this is actually the most useless post in this game and is the picture of active lurking

My thoughts from the vote history:

Red Ryu was either killed because Red Mafia was looking to kill Blue Mafia, or Red Mafia wanted to get rid of a strong townie.

The fact that his wagon got to 6(?) votes at one point means he couldn't have been too townie, so he was probably killed while being scumhunted by Red Mafia.

Since I think that rather than waste thier kill on the Blue mafia team if they can help it, Red Mafia would first try, in some way shape or form, to lynch Blue mafia if they can.

More useless shit based on a false dichotomy.

[PeregrineV]

Well, you had no problem calling my case on the dead town player crap. I guess your ISO will show similar disdain for all of the other cases on Slandaar. Otherwise, this looks very opportunistic, considering Nacho has no case on me besides "Useless", and you failed to comment on my case on Nacho.

There are cases and cases. Yours was hurried-looking shoot from the hip crap, which is not necessarily alignment indicative imo. What pings most about you are the vibes about your QT convo with ThAd re the vig kill and the subsequent night results. That and and growing uneasiness regarding your peripheral involvement in the thread since I joined the game.

The supersaturated solution crystallized.

If my vote is opportunistic, what are the subsequent votes?

- f

My bad. I see you say one thing...

@ bulba

so you have nacho as town cos you.....said he was scum if you got lynched and then he came in and saved you? lol

I cannot decide who I want to lynch moar, ak or bulba

and I am very unhappy with nacho

And do another.

VOTE: PeregrineV

But, it's not scummy because

reasons

.

And what about my QT convo gives you bad vibes?

[Desperado]

His point was that he has led the push hard on thez. He saw something that I didn't see, and thez flipped scum. So if he's seeing it again, then he's right, listen to him.

No. His point was that if he's caught more scum than Nacho that probably means Nacho is scum, and that Bulb should consider that information and reevalute his townread on Nacho. And he wasn't the only one who saw Thezscum.

In post 4952, Desperado wrote:
- Nacho quoted Nacho because you called him useless, so he posted what he felt were his most non-useless posts...with the obvious implication that they far outweigh what you might hypothetically include in a "Peregrine's Best Hits" style post.

Well, net result is if that was his best posting to prove I'm scum, I'm totally not convinced.

Guess it's a good thing that wasn't what he was doing? You called him useless and he quoted himself being decidedly not-useless. It had nothing to do with proving you are scum (other than the fact that you levied a poorly thought out accusation).

In post 4952, Desperado wrote:
- Where did Nacho have Slandaar as a townread? I see him showing suspicion as early as 1852, and he voted him in 3585 as well. Also...weren't you actively requesting people to vote Slandaar?
In post 2091, Nachomamma8 wrote:
I feel better about Slandaar now.
In post 4161, Nachomamma8 wrote:
This doesn't mean we should focus on the neighbor group.
In post 4782, Nachomamma8 wrote:
what is with this town and its shit wagons
Those wagons being Slandaar and Bulba.
I was asking these people.
In post 4773, PeregrineV wrote:
Requesting ThAd, ArcAngel, Bacde or Desp moves their vote to Slandaar.

Fair point, although without checking I'm pretty sure Bulb was still the lynch when Nacho changed, and if he felt strongly about Bulbtown I can see a lot of motivation for switching because the plurality wouldn't be in effect.

In post 4952, Desperado wrote:
- What is your read on ffullisade and what specifically is scummy about Nacho's buddying?

I have a very slight town read on the slot, but ThAd had mentioned it as a vig target in previous nights, so maybe he's seeing something I'm not.
And Nacho saying he wants to connect (which I read as "detrmine whether they are town or scum") but buddying before that connection happens seems scummy.

I think when Nacho and Mollie say they want to connect, they've already townread each other.

In post 4952, Desperado wrote:
- "Ever-changing" Seanald read: He applied pressure, did meta research, and changed his mind. What's scummy?
My meta research found the opposite.

Go ahead and enlighten us then.

[ffullisade]

Well, you had no problem calling my case on the dead town player crap. I guess your ISO will show similar disdain for all of the other cases on Slandaar. Otherwise, this looks very opportunistic, considering Nacho has no case on me besides "Useless", and you failed to comment on my case on Nacho.

There are cases and cases. Yours was hurried-looking shoot from the hip crap, which is not necessarily alignment indicative imo. What pings most about you are the vibes about your QT convo with ThAd re the vig kill and the subsequent night results. That and and growing uneasiness regarding your peripheral involvement in the thread since I joined the game.

The supersaturated solution crystallized.

If my vote is opportunistic, what are the subsequent votes?

- f

My bad. I see you say one thing...

@ bulba

so you have nacho as town cos you.....said he was scum if you got lynched and then he came in and saved you? lol

I cannot decide who I want to lynch moar, ak or bulba

and I am very unhappy with nacho

And do another.

VOTE: PeregrineV

But, it's not scummy because

reasons

.

And what about my QT convo gives you bad vibes?

4888 is Mollie. 4960 is me, as are the posts addressed to you from my question about your herding votes to the slandaar wagon. My suspicion of you was absolutely a brainstorm that came up as I was reading ThAd's posts in the early game day. I checked with Mollie before going after you, and checked again to be sure she was comfortable with voting you.

Mollie and I have not been in full agreement about bulba for a while. We're finally approaching something close to alignment, though.

We've had similar, though lesser not-quite-eye-to-eye about AK, Kubla, and Nacho.

You don't have ThAd's trust. That came through in his posts. He has more basis for reading your alignment than anyone else in the game. At least one of these neighborhoods should have a scum component. I think this is one and I think you are the scum.Useless

[ffullisade]

huh. don't now where the "Useless" came from.

[PeregrineV]

Go ahead and enlighten us then.

Look at Marketplace Mafia 2. Look at Politics Mafia. Both are large themes.

[PeregrineV]

4888 is Mollie. 4960 is me, as are the posts addressed to you from my question about your herding votes to the slandaar wagon.

Herding votes. Nice.
How many votes were a direct result of my "herding"?
What does this tell you about my alignment in relation to Bulba?

You don't have ThAd's trust. That came through in his posts. He has more basis for reading your alignment than anyone else in the game. At least one of these neighborhoods should have a scum component. I think this is one and I think you are the scum.

Which post indicates ThAd thinks I am not town.
If that's the case, why would he not shoot me?

[ffullisade]

I think when Nacho and Mollie say they want to connect, they've already townread each other.

Nacho and fery, but same difference. Cautiously townreading because our earlier overtures weren't well met.

- f

[PeregrineV]

His point was that he has led the push hard on thez. He saw something that I didn't see, and thez flipped scum. So if he's seeing it again, then he's right, listen to him.

No. His point was that if he's caught more scum than Nacho that probably means Nacho is scum, and that Bulb should consider that information and reevalute his townread on Nacho. And he wasn't the only one who saw Thezscum.

In post 4952, Desperado wrote:
- Nacho quoted Nacho because you called him useless, so he posted what he felt were his most non-useless posts...with the obvious implication that they far outweigh what you might hypothetically include in a "Peregrine's Best Hits" style post.

Well, net result is if that was his best posting to prove I'm scum, I'm totally not convinced.

Guess it's a good thing that wasn't what he was doing? You called him useless and he quoted himself being decidedly not-useless. It had nothing to do with proving you are scum (other than the fact that you levied a poorly thought out accusation).

In post 4952, Desperado wrote:
- Where did Nacho have Slandaar as a townread? I see him showing suspicion as early as 1852, and he voted him in 3585 as well. Also...weren't you actively requesting people to vote Slandaar?
In post 2091, Nachomamma8 wrote:
I feel better about Slandaar now.
In post 4161, Nachomamma8 wrote:
This doesn't mean we should focus on the neighbor group.
In post 4782, Nachomamma8 wrote:
what is with this town and its shit wagons
Those wagons being Slandaar and Bulba.
I was asking these people.
In post 4773, PeregrineV wrote:
Requesting ThAd, ArcAngel, Bacde or Desp moves their vote to Slandaar.

Fair point, although without checking I'm pretty sure Bulb was still the lynch when Nacho changed, and if he felt strongly about Bulbtown I can see a lot of motivation for switching because the plurality wouldn't be in effect.

In post 4952, Desperado wrote:
- What is your read on ffullisade and what specifically is scummy about Nacho's buddying?

I have a very slight town read on the slot, but ThAd had mentioned it as a vig target in previous nights, so maybe he's seeing something I'm not.
And Nacho saying he wants to connect (which I read as "detrmine whether they are town or scum") but buddying before that connection happens seems scummy.

I think when Nacho and Mollie say they want to connect, they've already townread each other.

In post 4952, Desperado wrote:
- "Ever-changing" Seanald read: He applied pressure, did meta research, and changed his mind. What's scummy?
My meta research found the opposite.

Go ahead and enlighten us then.

Summarize then. My case is bad because it's bad, or because Nacho is town?

[Desperado]

Nacho is town and your case is bad and, consequently, unconvincing.

[PeregrineV]

Nacho is town and your case is bad and, consequently, unconvincing.

Then, in simple terms, why is he town?

[Desperado]

He got a town role PM.

[PeregrineV]

He got a town role PM.

Right.

[Amethyst Kitty]

He got a town role PM.

go get some original content.

Also why is it the first time it didn't read genuine to you, but the second time it did?

[Desperado]

He got a town role PM.

go get some original content.

Also why is it the first time it didn't read genuine to you, but the second time it did?

He asked for it in simple terms.

Was that a direct quote or something? It seemed new to me.

[Desperado]

Hopefully soon you'll meet a player where you treasure their friendship over some silly ingame fight that has no meaning.

That was new.

[Desperado]

And genuine as hell.

[Nero Cain]

The reason that most of us were town reading CTD is ‘cause of his outting his neighborhood, when the friendly neighbor flipped. He’s experienced enough to know how to fake this, there’s also the possibility that he could just be scum and not know this. I don’t like it when my questions are ignored and CTD is avoiding discussing his neighbor hood actions for some odd reason. And in yet another bout of hypocrisy, Bulb is now calling me scummy for being suspicious of CTD while he is also suspicious of CTD.

Note to self: Look at CTD’s recent games, if there’s a friendly neighbor in it them he’s scum faking.

Note to the town: Nero has no intention of ever following up on this. If he thinks I'm good enough scum to fool almost the entire town with my play, it's completely nonsensical that he'd even entertain the idea that he could find a friendly neighbor in one of my past games.

????

Why is it nonsensical? I'm fairly certain that I'm able to read. Lets say I go through your games and find a FN. Why or why not should we auto lynch you?

Nero, I've ignored your incessant probing into our neighborhood because it was none of your business. If there was anything in our QT I thought the town needed to know, I would have mentioned.

I also don't remember you being anywhere near as interested in questioning any other neighbors about their QTs. I wonder why that is.

Maybe 'cause no one else was like "I'LL PROVIDE THE CONTENT OF MY QT!!!" So I'm confused as to why you said you'd do this, then didn't and why you wanted/needed Slan's permission.

If he truly believed in his theory yesterday, a certain amount of paranoia makes sense. Though it's just as likely (or maybe more so) that he was simply overreaching with his argument yesterday to save his own hide and now has to backpedal to maintain a semblance of reason.

Are you REALLY giving a reason that Bulb would backtrack? Context says you two are full of it. He's STILL town reading Thad and PV BECAUSE of his theory. AND he's still believes that Sean is scum and in his theory he thinks both teams have a undercover hoodling. So if he believes that and is unwilling revisit THAD or PV then you are the POE scum. I think its likely he has a buddy in you or PV. I'm also not arguing about him setting up a lynch on you. I'm saying that in his theory he has you listed as scum and now he's backing away from calling you scum for some reason.

If you decide to finally stop giving Nero a pass, I'd much prefer lynching him still.

If you feel this way why do you feel the need to move? Deadline is still aways away.

[penguin_alien]

I suppose Kublai Khan could have protected a VT claim, which would let Rena have been blocked. I don't love it, but I suppose it works.

PV, do you still trust ThAd? Do you think he trusts you?

[penguin_alien]

Forgot, UNVOTE: Rena

[Nero Cain]

pls vote Bulb scum with me.