Open 512: See Nine Plus Plus (Game Ovah)

[Does Bo Know]

Votecount 1.7

[L-3] Saki - Flench, Paschendale, CherryDrPepper, Varsoon
[L-5] jmo16mla - Glass, StubbsKVM
[L-6] Glass - jmo16mla
[L-6] CherryDrPepper - Dyslexicon
[L-6] TunnelVision - oriole
[L-6] Varsoon - TunnelVision
[L-6] Flench - Titus

Not Voting: Vote Me, Saki

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch!

Deadline is Friday, August 2nd, 2013 at 7:30 PM CST ((expired on 2013-08-02 19:30:00)).

---

Saki is V/LA until July 17th.
Varsoon is V/LA for a few days (ETA July 17th).

[Titus]

OK I just spent forty minutes writing an extremely disjointed post that tries to explain whatever it is jmo wants to know.

It is very long and full of quotes that are probably messed up.

It probably won't help him understand at all but will I am sure will be more evidence for jmo to go after in this really annoying form of pressure that I see no end to.

I will post it at the request of Pasche.

Flench, Pasch isn't the only town in the game. You should post your thoughts so all of us can see them. Also, why do you suppose that your post will provide more evidence for jmo to go after? If your reasoning is sound, then it shouldn't provide any additional evidence at all.

Also, you're reacting to pressure "that you see no end to". Why wouldn't the pressure end of the questions are answered appropropriately?

This seems like a scum motivated post. I don't want to hunt unless town makes me hunt and this pressure is unbearable.

[Flench]

Flench, Pasch isn't the only town in the game. You should post your thoughts so all of us can see them. Also, why do you suppose that your post will provide more evidence for jmo to go after? If your reasoning is sound, then it shouldn't provide any additional evidence at all.

Also, you're reacting to pressure "that you see no end to". Why wouldn't the pressure end of the questions are answered appropropriately?

This seems like a scum motivated post. I don't want to hunt unless town makes me hunt and this pressure is unbearable.

1. At this point he is the only town in the game that I know of, if you jmo and cherry are scum and are intentionally leading the convo this way then I would like a town to give his thoughts. I thought my reasoning was sound in my previous posts, why should that stop him or you? Everything in this long post has already been said, if you go back and read you should be able to understand everything.

2. I don't see jmo ever saying that I answered his questions appropriately.

3. What?

[oriole]

Link did not post properly
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 0#p4976509
Flech's "worst town posts so far" when describing Saki bothers me. You think he's town, thn you vote?

I meant that his posts have so far not been productive for the town, not that he is town and making bad posts.



Glass has voted twice for people recently voted on, bandwagon style.

Leaving my vote with Saki until he defends himself or becomes productive in some way.

Is this the explanation everyone's looking for?

[Titus]

Flench, who's scum? you've been prancing around and not voting.

I don't understand this.

I mentioned who I thought was scummy in post 118.

I voted for Saki a long time ago and he has since disappeared. I don't think it's a good policy to remove my vote on someone who goes silent.

I have other leads and will make them known when I get more information.

Oriole, this post as well should be explained. Post 118 doesn't give a clear indication of who he thinks scum is. I'd guess he meant 116 but he's being a stubborn git and not confirming anything. That's what we've meant all along, just for Flench to be clear as to who he FoSes and the vote when he thinks someone is scum.

Instead, we get posts like 49 and 199 which both seem to be clear scummy posts to me.

----------------

@Flench,

OK I just spent forty minutes writing an extremely disjointed post that tries to explain whatever it is jmo wants to know.

It is very long and full of quotes that are probably messed up.

It probably won't help him understand at all but will I am sure will be more evidence for jmo to go after in this really annoying form of pressure that I see no end to.

I will post it at the request of Pasche.

Flench, Pasch isn't the only town in the game. You should post your thoughts so all of us can see them. Also, why do you suppose that your post will provide more evidence for jmo to go after? If your reasoning is sound, then it shouldn't provide any additional evidence at all.

Also, you're reacting to pressure "that you see no end to". Why wouldn't the pressure end of the questions are answered appropropriately?

This seems like a scum motivated post. I don't want to hunt unless town makes me hunt and this pressure is unbearable.

1. At this point he is the only town in the game that I know of, if you jmo and cherry are scum and are intentionally leading the convo this way then I would like a town to give his thoughts. I thought my reasoning was sound in my previous posts, why should that stop him or you? Everything in this long post has already been said, if you go back and read you should be able to understand everything.

2. I don't see jmo ever saying that I answered his questions appropriately.

3. What?

1. Paschendale is the only confirmed town, yet it's implausible to argue he's the only town in the game. You should want the rest of the town to understand you, and thus clarify if there are questions. The rest of your reply makes no intelligible sense on point 1.

2. Well that's because you haven't. Answer them honestly and the pressure diminishes.

3. Your posts seem scum motivated. You seem not to have any desire to scumhunt or be bound to your FoSes here. You say one thing (when someone else asks for clarification, I'll clarify) and do another (wait for Pasche to be confused). Basically, any question that doesn't come from Pasche, you are showing great reluctance to answer.

[Titus]

*Post 49 = Post 39

[CherryDrPepper]

Sakura Hana here, imma go revisiting everyone's ISOs and check for tendencies to form my reads, post links will be given where applicable. Ordered from Towniest to Scummiest

Paschendale

:

Town

, obvious scum, let's lynch him.... just kidding, but he's conf town, need i say more?

Titus

:

Town

, Best gameplay so far, asking questions, pressuring people, finding issues with people's posts, I don't see me voting him ever unless he does something incredibly scummy.

jmo

:

Town

, Also pretty good scumhunting tho in a more aggresive manner, I like his style a lot, Also I don't see me voting this guy ever unless he does something incredibly scummy.

oriole

:

Leaning Town

, Questioning players and good scumhunting, i particularly like his 57 and his 62, but I dislike his vote on Tunnelvision on 133, why did that make you think someone just entering the game would need to vote another player, specially a hydra that hasn't talked with his other head too like i refrained myself from doing early on with Saki until Saki's unvote?.

Varsoon

:

Null

, Dunno really what to think of his posts, doesn't seem to spend much time scumhunting rather answering questions, and then gives a reads with zero nulls/neutrals and just puts people as town or scum, don't see how he has that strong of a townread on all those Town reads and the same could be said about his scum reads, tho I agree with the read on Flench.

Dyslexicon

:

Null

, only 3 posts tho with quite some content, Still don't know what he finds suspicious in me being inactive over the weekend which seems like a weak to reasoning to lay suspicion on someone.

Tunnelvision

:

Null

, Someone without much to go on...

Vote Me

:

Null

, Haven't seen much and the few i've seen isn't enough to consolidate a read on him.

Stubbs

:

Null

, This guy exists?!

Glass

:

Leaning Scum

, This guy is all over the place, his Titus vote looks pretty bad, very short replies, also i haven't seen some reads from him either...

Flench

:

Leaning Scum

, His scumslip even if he explained it, if anyone could explain a scumslip then that'd be too easy wouldn't it? he's been fencesitting on the Saki's vote all game, and been defending his vote on Saki who's on V/LA to begin with, do you plan on doing anything else other than just staying there pointing fingers at Saki or are you gonna try to find the other scum...

Saki

:

Scum

, Most of the read is because of my partner mentioning that he isn't playing to his town meta, the other part is all his jumpyness with votes and unvoting when being called out on it. As if "caught"

Now i'm done catching up, thanks for the patience.

[Paschendale]

1. At this point he is the only town in the game that I know of, if you jmo and cherry are scum and are intentionally leading the convo this way then I would like a town to give his thoughts. I thought my reasoning was sound in my previous posts, why should that stop him or you? Everything in this long post has already been said, if you go back and read you should be able to understand everything.

Well obviously there are other town in the game besides me. And no matter how good you might think your arguments are, if other people don't understand them, no one is going to agree with them or follow them. Swallow your pride and be cooperative.

[jmo16mla]

after reviewign saki's posts, she hasn't been constructive to scum hunting at all.

id like to see what she has to say upon returning to the updated game state before voting her this early in the game.

still not liking glass.

[Saki]

aight sneaking in a post that i really shouldn't spend the time on but meh

it's not going to be long, dont expect much

coming up in around 15-20m

[Saki]

Okay I really don't like DP's discussion of 'meta' but I'll play along with it, though it is not at all trustworthy, I have exactly one game played on this site. Like seriously you're going off one completed game that was my first--everyone'd expect a newbie to change playstyle after their first game, right? Even in that game my early-game and late-game play differed a lot.

here's how I imagine my meta (link to the game Cherry is referencing)

first day
walk into the club
wave my VI card like i just don't care
when people start noticing me i take the spotlight
where i drink and dance 'till people think I'm crazy (I'm sure they already do, but)
when the votes come, I turn around and smack whoever threw them in the face
and make the 'omfg everyone is scum' post (which is what i'll do here)

the rationale for said post being that scum like to be on wagons, especially easy ones


I like looking for tells in reactions--therefore I do whatever is necessary to produce said reaction, excuse my play where I am incoherent/impossible to read 'cause I'm probably fishing for reactions somewhere

don't forget to try your hardest to look town!

about the whole hydra business I did not know they existed till now, had to look 'em up.
the rationale behind 'lynch all hydras' because they're disruptive and have an unfair advantage over the rest of the players as town or scum (being able to talk to each other and all)

Anything i post pre-5 pages is really not serious, that's also something I plan to do consistently in my games

@Titus why so cautious of getting on a bandwagon?
@TV yes my game does get better
@Flench V/LA means 'vacation and/or limited access' meaning I'll be here sometimes, but generally not be here. I really don't like how you keep a static vote on someone that's V/LA--scum could easily take advantage of that
@Varsoon why vote me as soon as Pasche makes his readslist against your policy of 'not sticking votes on someone that's V/LA'? sheeping the IC for extra towncred?
@JMO I'm L-2, you're thinking of sticking a vote on me even though there's like two days 'till my V/LA is over?
@Cherry yes I don't like you, really, like NO I LOVE YOU BOTH || i find DP and Sakura pushing me this hard early in the game perfectly aligned with their scum metas

FoS: Varsoon, Paschendale, Flench, Titus

for reasons above + taking all that early-game bullcrap seriously
VOTE: CherryDrPepper
'cause they're scum, yet again. I don't like the giant readslists nor the idea that they specifically go against the general reads floating around in town

Also, a few dumb questions, shouldn't hydras not be allowed to talk to each other via pm/other methods? How do you talk to a hydra? Each head separately or consider them one player and try to merge two opinions into one?

[Saki]

holy fuck I'm stupid sorry Pasche I never meant to point a finger at you

[jmo16mla]

@JMO I'm L-2, you're thinking of sticking a vote on me even though there's like two days 'till my V/LA is over?

youre L-3 hun. I wanted to see what you had to say when you got back from your V/LA to see if you would keep up the non scum hunting.

[CherryDrPepper]

I find it ironic you want us to dismiss your first game meta while saying that this is how we play as scum when you've only seen us in your first game.

You were timid then. You also didnt vote jump a lot.

[jmo16mla]

i find DP and Sakura pushing me this hard early in the game perfectly aligned with their scum metas

in that

one

game?

[Saki]

i see you guys notice the irony
congratulations

I figured I could make a counterargument using 'that one game' since they're reading me off 'that one game'

@Flench following up, feel free to AMA
goes for anyone else too, just know that I won't get you a timely response

[Saki]

i just constructed my meta in that post why ignore it
(that's also what I thought I did in 'that one game')
you can like reference it for all games to come

[Paschendale]

Saki's 210 lists 5 suspects. And no actual reasons for any of them. One question each for Titus, Varsoon, and Flench, but no reason why whatever he's asking them about shows their alignments. And nothing for me or Cherry.

Also... apologizing to me? Apologize to me if my actions scream town and you stupidly accuse me. Not if my actions are lazy because I don't have to prove my sincerity because I'm confirmed.

[Saki]

if you read the bulk of that post you'd see the thought process from "i was reaction fishing" to the fos
and then questions

you probably dont want to skip/ignore the bulk of it

im fosing them for the question i want answered and to see what their reaction is to an fos compared to a normal question

jesus if i have to model my exact thought process in my posts to prove that my scumhunting is genuine im going to need something more than my phone to post with

[Titus]

I really don't like meta arguments based off one game. My first game on this site, I was deliberately much more sheepy than I am normally until I found out the rules. I'm not saying y'all are wrong on Saki just that argument is terribly unpersuasive to me. I did think Saki was looking for tells with the whole "town points for whoever guesses my avatar". The problem is that was a little obvious.

@ Saki, Post 74 I answered the question about why I hesitate to get on bandwagons.

@Dr. Pepper/Glass, I fear the point of no return due to the value Saki provides if s/he is town. If Saki's town, that's a player unafraid to risk their own hide to try and catch scum. That's not someone we want strung up so early. Suspicious =/= scummy. I know I am suspicious of those with play styles different than my own. I try to only vote those who are RVS or who I am convinced are scum.

I generally take everything a player does seriously. Generally, players who take things seriously are actually most likely to be the town players rather than scum. Scum will dismiss gambits and other early forms of scum hunting as jokes quite frequently IMO.

[Flench]

Flench, who's scum? you've been prancing around and not voting.

I don't understand this.

I mentioned who I thought was scummy in post 118.

I voted for Saki a long time ago and he has since disappeared. I don't think it's a good policy to remove my vote on someone who goes silent.

I have other leads and will make them known when I get more information.

Oriole, this post as well should be explained. Post 118 doesn't give a clear indication of who he thinks scum is. I'd guess he meant 116 but he's being a stubborn git and not confirming anything. That's what we've meant all along, just for Flench to be clear as to who he FoSes and the vote when he thinks someone is scum.

Instead, we get posts like 49 and 199 which both seem to be clear scummy posts to me.

Yes the 118 reference was meant to be 116, this was pointed out by you and earlier and I thought it was pretty obvious. 116 had my scum suspects.

[Flench]

Saki's 210 lists 5 suspects. And no actual reasons for any of them. One question each for Titus, Varsoon, and Flench, but no reason why whatever he's asking them about shows their alignments. And nothing for me or Cherry.

Also... apologizing to me? Apologize to me if my actions scream town and you stupidly accuse me. Not if my actions are lazy because I don't have to prove my sincerity because I'm confirmed.

I can't find his question to me, point it out to me if I missed it. I am really tired atm so very possible.

[Titus]

Why didn't you just say that Flench? Making us jump through hoops to get opinions isn't helpful.

Who are your scum suspects now? Do you have any questions for us that would help you determine scum? Any players (besides the child) that you see as auto town?

I don't think you missed anything from Paschendale.

[Flench]

Why didn't you just say that Flench? Making us jump through hoops to get opinions isn't helpful.

Who are your scum suspects now? Do you have any questions for us that would help you determine scum? Any players (besides the child) that you see as auto town?

I don't think you missed anything from Paschendale.

Titus if that is all you wanted explained then I was horribly misunderstanding you and jmo, I could have cleared that up easily, and my lengthy post barely even mentions it.

Too tired to link evidence atm but my current mafia suspects are (in no order):

Varsoon - For putting so much out there. Also don't know if his vote for Tunnel was an omgus because tunnel kinda made fun of the way he was being so friendly with everyone, and said it was suspicious. Also he didn't vote for a long time, I wonder if our early votes were part of his mafia?

Saki- Scum-hunting not great, goes afk but then comes back from afk when he realizes the pressure is not leaving him while he is gone, seems sketchy. Still leaving vote there for now.

JMO- His posts are bad and he should feel bad.

[quote="In post 106

Kinda thought it was obvious the reason I voted for you in the last post, I see Titus as newb town. Your vote on him is because he is an easy lynch target at this point in the game.

Sigh, it's like trying to pull teeth here.

Why do you think that my reason for voting him is because he is an easy lynch target, as opposed to my stated reason?[/quote]

Glass gets it.

Also Titus:

[quote="In post 219
I generally take everything a player does seriously. Generally, players who take things seriously are actually most likely to be the town players rather than scum.

Scum will dismiss gambits and other early forms of scum hunting as jokes quite frequently

IMO.[/quote]

Why would a mafia dismiss gambits and scum hunting as a joke? Wouldn't he want to cast suspicion on any non-mafia person that he could?

[Does Bo Know]

Bump