Mini 1463 (it has shitty jokes) over

[Generic]

Missed alabaska, his posting has been very pro town so far, no issues there at present.

[Kid A]

Kid A seemed town to me on day 1, the main points against him ft like a misrep of his posts. Kid A I would like your reads on other players please too.

yessiree* - evil mafia
Generic - not evil
Mutleyddmc (replaced levio*) - idunno im working on this one replacements screw me up
Kid A - evil mafia
DCLXVI** - evil mafia
Bub Bidderskins* - ??????? mystery
Alabaska J - not evil
NotThePope* (hydra of notscience and TheIrishPope) - town as fuck
TMTOLBTWNTOF**** - hes made like 2 posts idk
Smudger - not evil
RadiantCowbells**** - probably not evil idk if his dumbtell was intentional
Alduskkel (replaced absta101*) - not evil
Om of the Nom* (replaced Kingsrush) - maybe evil

[Kid A]

also if you want me to go in depth on some i can do that ok

[Alduskkel]

^Confused by Kid A's posts up there...

Anyway, NTP flipped scum and DCL flipped town. Not too surprised by the first result (although my scum read was far from solid), but a bit by the second one. Well, having a wrong scumread get NK'd is basically the best possible outcome (short of correcting the read).

Kid A is still town.

I'm planning on skimming this game over and looking for NTP interactions. RC, bub, and yessiree are the obvious people to scrutinize. If I recall correctly, though, RC was the one to make the case against Kid A, and bub was heavily invested in Kid A over NTP as well. I would expect scum trying to save NTP would be more inclined to support the Kid A wagon from the sidelines. I doubt BOTH scum bussed NTP though, unless one or both of them were people late to the party (e.g. Smudger).

Anyway, I'll get back to you guys with more analysis later today or tomorrow.

[Alduskkel]

I would like to point out how much of a wildcard TMT is. Only person not voting Kid A or NTP at the end of the day, not to mention he's been lurking pretty hard.

[yessiree]

Kid A is frustrated because his plan to bus NTP didn't clear him

[Kid A]

Kid A is frustrated because his plan to bus NTP didn't clear him

if i get lynched i want everyone to remember this post ok

[yessiree]

you mean when you get lynched we cut your head off and hang it on the wall to remind everyone you dont fuck with this town

[N]

Vote Count 2.01

yessiree

( 1 ) Kid A

Generic

( 0 )

Mutleyddmc

( 0 )

Kid A

( 2 ) RadiantCowbells , yessiree

Bub Bidderskins

( 2 ) Om of the Nom , Alabaska J

Alabaska J

( 0 )

TMTOLBTWNTOF

( 0 )

Smudger

( 0 )

RadiantCowbells

( 2 ) Mutleyddmc , Smudger

Alduskkel

( 0 )

Om of the Nom

( 0 )

Not voting:

Bub Bidderskins , TMTOLBTWNTOF , Alduskkel , Generic

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.

Deadline is in

(expired on 2013-07-24 09:12:40)

.

[TMTOLBTWNTOF]

Oh I see now, you think BOTH wagons were for scum players. I was working on the assumption I have that kid A is town, but if you look at both as scum you are suggesting that the other mafia player (is there three in total?) made the decision that NTP was the more likely lynch.

I can agree with this

Yeah, that last post by Bub makes me far less happy by him.

I don't know why anyone else doesn't see my case on Kid A that Yessiree is now following up on; why don't you think Kid A is scum?

You were happy with him?

In terms of Bub, I'm not sure if scum would be willing to stick their neck out

that

much to protect NTP.
However, that "my reads are shit" post bothers me, especially with little additional commentary.

So I'm sort of conflicted on him.

[Alabaska J]

It's interesting you say that because I didn't intend to bring WIFOM up. What Bub did looked like a town defending his townread, more so than, a scum trying to salvage his partner. Are you saying town players don't make the same mistakes Bub makes?

p-edit: we'll have to see what Bub have to say

i'm saying that i would expect that play from both town and scum, so it comes up to me as null. i don't see how you can say it goes either way. generic says it well:

pp: @ generic: Bub did attack Smudger's hammer vote, in #497, and #499, would a scum player, knowing that his partner just got lynched, still uphold that defiance of an attitude?

But that's my point yessiree.

Say it was me defending NTP so aggressively. Suddenly he is hammered and I stop dead all my defensive comments. NTP flips scum, what do you make of my reaction?
Good scum should know not to drop something just because they know the outcome, that's waaaay too obvious.

great way of phrasing my thoughts exactly.

For me bub you are still a suspect due to suddenly just naming town players in your opinion. That feels like mafia trying not to press any opinions too hard right now.

again, i agree with this. i feel like generic is definitely town, seeing as he was also NTP's biggest target yesterday and it was over a dislike of hydrae as opposed to anything substantial.

However, that "my reads are shit" post bothers me, especially with little additional commentary.

speaking of reads, can we have your reads on everybody? you are the biggest wildcard here (i like that phrase whoever said it)

[Alabaska J]

i should say NTP's biggest target until the kid a lynch

[TMTOLBTWNTOF]

However, that "my reads are shit" post bothers me, especially with little additional commentary.

speaking of reads, can we have your reads on everybody? you are the biggest wildcard here (i like that phrase whoever said it)[/quote]
I'll be willing to elaborate on any of these.

Still have to look at D1 -> D2 links or whatever

yessiree: D1 was scummy, no reads on D2 so I'll stick with a scum read
Generic: Beginning was scummy but now less so
Mutleyddmc: shrug
Kid A: town
Bub Bidderskins: leaning scum
Alabaska J: town
TMTOLBTWNTOF: no comment
Smudger: the hammer happened so I would say town
RadiantCowbells: hmmmm not getting any town vibrations
Alduskkel: town
Om of the Nom: no idea

[TMTOLBTWNTOF]

I would like to point out how much of a wildcard TMT is. Only person not voting Kid A or NTP at the end of the day, not to mention he's been lurking pretty hard.

What's the textbook definition of "wildcard"

[Alabaska J]

I would like to point out how much of a wildcard TMT is. Only person not voting Kid A or NTP at the end of the day, not to mention he's been lurking pretty hard.

What's the textbook definition of "wildcard"

well, although i'm not the person being asked directly, since i say you fit the definition, i'll give my opinion on the term and Alduskkel can give his, and you can decide whether you fit the definition or not.

in my mind, a wildcard is someone whose actions can be seen as either town or scum even on an objective level. note that this is different than a nullread, because that is a

subjective

judgment made by someone. people that fall into this category are those who do any combination of the following things: lurk heavily throughout major points in a game, have a decidedly anti-town playstyle, have a decidedly naive playstyle, have an erratic playstyle, consistently flip-flop on views early and often throughout days in a way that seems genuine. i would say that you are a wildcard for the first reason, NTP was (until the end of the day when he caved obviously enough under pressure) a wildcard for the second reason, Kid A is a wildcard as well for the second reason, and Mutleyddmc is a wildcard for the fourth reason. i think Kid A is most likely town for interactionary reasons, however.

[Alabaska J]

in addition, because of your lurking you were on neither wagon at the end of the day, giving us even less info on you.

[Generic]

The wildcard in sport is usually an entrant that hasn't got there by the standard means, like in tennis it can be base on invite into the tournament.

I think in the case of this context a wildcard would be the unknown entity. As stated you were on neither wagon, your opinions were tunnelled solely on me I think throughout day 1 and therefore your leaning is indeterminate.

[Om of the Nom]

Scum-Bub doing hard defending of NTP isn't as weird as it sounds because obviously the people on the Kid A wagon were more vocal about the NTP wagon being bad and so even if he hadn't had said anything drastic the support would have been there from everyone else. What I'm more worried about anyway is the fact that he chose to hard defend over shit reasons with no evidence when could have been bringing up new things against Kid A instead. It shows a lack of conviction in his read and more of a willingness to defend his own.

Generic I really had no idea what you were trying to aim for with your fishing accusation so please enlighten me on what was fishing because I don't see anything :')

[Generic]

It was when you pressed for who cowbells thought was scum on the NTP wagon, like you were checking you weren't in the frame (self image concerns).

Possibly a paranoia thing on my part, possibly something to note for later.

[Om of the Nom]

It was when you pressed for who cowbells thought was scum on the NTP wagon, like you were checking you weren't in the frame (self image concerns).

Possibly a paranoia thing on my part, possibly something to note for later.

no i just forgot he had said it and wondered what he was basing his theories off

[TMTOLBTWNTOF]

Om of the Nom is extremely hard for me to read
I am suspicious

[Om of the Nom]

Om of the Nom is extremely hard for me to read
I am suspicious

just believe im town and then everything makes sense
but seriously just because you think im hard to read it isn't a reason for you to be suspicious

[Smudger]

I would like to point out how much of a wildcard TMT is. Only person not voting Kid A or NTP at the end of the day, not to mention he's been lurking pretty hard.

What's the textbook definition of "wildcard"

well, although i'm not the person being asked directly, since i say you fit the definition, i'll give my opinion on the term and Alduskkel can give his, and you can decide whether you fit the definition or not.

in my mind, a wildcard is someone whose actions can be seen as either town or scum even on an objective level. note that this is different than a nullread, because that is a

subjective

judgment made by someone. people that fall into this category are those who do any combination of the following things: lurk heavily throughout major points in a game, have a decidedly anti-town playstyle, have a decidedly naive playstyle, have an erratic playstyle, consistently flip-flop on views early and often throughout days in a way that seems genuine. i would say that you are a wildcard for the first reason, NTP was (until the end of the day when he caved obviously enough under pressure) a wildcard for the second reason, Kid A is a wildcard as well for the second reason, and Mutleyddmc is a wildcard for the fourth reason. i think Kid A is most likely town for interactionary reasons, however.

I call that a Loose Cannon..

[Smudger]

In terms of Bub, I'm not sure if scum would be willing to stick their neck out that much to protect NTP.
However, that "my reads are shit" post bothers me, especially with little additional commentary.

So I'm sort of conflicted on him.

this feels so uncomfortable to me, TMT if it bothers you enough to raise it in thread, why then does it conflict your reasoning?

[Alabaska J]

@smudger: potato potato