Micro 201 - Venging Ball - Over

[Shadi1337]

No, such leads I was looking for (if you had more of them)

[SalmonellaDreams]

So you were asking me to scumhunt for you

[SalmonellaDreams]

*?

[Shadi1337]

No, working together; exposing points.

[Makiavel]

SDreams : you made me laugh with the end of Post #70

[Guyett]

Ok posting on a phone is a nightmare for readings so I'll try get some done tomorrow morning on the pc. For now I'm suspicious of mp for his really obvious bandwagon vote and then his defence of maki when he first came under pressure... Could be protecting a scum buddy? No other posts since then... Could je be lurking?

Salmons exchange with grey is interesting... Giving out for bandwagoning to put pressure on at l-1but doing it twice himself? Contradicting much? As for giving out for not pressuring sv well perhaps he wanted to.pressure someone else he found suspicious? Actually drp made other interesting points about your play too. There's a lot of contradictions and circular reasoning going on here being masked by pro town votes on people making l-1 votes...

Not sure what to make of drp yet, some solid town moments but the page 1 l-1 vote is making me uneasy.. Its a full 40 mins between his vote and the previous shadi vote, surely he read the tread in that time?!? Also don't really see how it was orchestrated.

[Shadi1337]

No, just more that we can all work on.

[Cheery Dog]

Vote Count 1C

Player	L-4 Vote	L-3 Vote	L-2 Vote	L-1 Vote	L-0 Vote (Hammer)	Total Votes
Shadi1337	MP5	greygnarl	SalmonellaDreams			3
Makiavel	Shadi1337	Alexcellent				2
DoctorPepper	Guyett					1
Guyett	Siveure DtTrikyp					1
SalmonellaDreams	DoctorPepper					1

Not Voting Makiavel
With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch
Deadline:

(expired on 2013-07-21 08:00:00)

Prodding MP5

[SalmonellaDreams]

Salmons exchange with grey is interesting... Giving out for bandwagoning to put pressure on at l-1but doing it twice himself? Contradicting much?

Can you rephrase this?

As for giving out for not pressuring sv well perhaps he wanted to.pressure someone else he found suspicious?

Yes, this was established, but siv ignored grey's question completely. We can't let people coast like that without pressuring them. I wanted to know why grey would give up so easily, as it was a good question.

Actually drp made other interesting points about your play too. There's a lot of contradictions and circular reasoning going on here being masked by pro town votes on people making l-1 votes...

Which points? Where are the contradictions and circular reasoning? You're not helping anyone out by saying they're there and not pointing to where.

then quickhammerer gets venged unless they hit scum.

I understand, but from my experience, Maki will even quickhammer as town.

No, working together; exposing points.

Exposing points? Why should you start now?

Anyways, I need to learn to count, I thought Shadi was at L-1.

[Shadi1337]

how many votes do I have?

Was just trying to get a bit more out, as I don't recall having a strong read on you (maybe I had? dont remember) I just wanted to see a little more. I mean the maki thing is connected to me so I guess it'd be biased to judge.

[Makiavel]

Olé Olé Olé .Olé lé lé Olé lélélé.

[DoctorPepper]

Here's the thing. People being at L-1, are not necessarily going to be quickhammered. This set up enables us to put pressure with an L-1 without the fear of a quickhammer because scum cant risk being vengekilled as they do not have a functional night kill.

I have a problem with Sal's insistence, especially with saying Maki quickhammers as town.
1. Quickhammers are less likely to happen in this set up
2. Why act so protective of Maki, especially after I said "quickhammerers will most likely be venged"

[Guyett]

Spoiler: lots of quotes and stuff

DrPepper, that L-1 vote was awful, especially on page one.
The whole maki shadi thing is interesting, but can we really find associations this early?
VOTE: DrPepper

You vote for someone who puts another person at L-1... I don't have much of a problem yet...
however your claim that we can't find any associations yet is lazy at best and anti town at worst.

but can we really find associations this early?

Why bring it back up? why not actively try to find scum?

Kudos to dr.pepper for trying, even if it's early. His analysis is fair.

Salmo, do you have any other leads you'd like to follow? (You were on Maki's rvs omgus vote before?)

Are you trying to subtly push me onto Maki right here?

The relationship between Maki and Shadi is interesting. It's still to early to learn anything of it, but we'll definitely have to go back to look at it.

Anyways, VOTE: Shadi

I liked the pressure that was on him, and he seemed like he was trying to subtly get me to vote for Maki.

Shadi's play here does seem slightly odd but he does make a good point that you were on to Maki about that RVS OMGUS vote... why not keep pressuring that vote? to paraphrase youreslf;
"how come you didn't push harder on siv? He ignored your question.
What have you noticed about his play?"

vote: shadi

Have fun at L-1, I don't like your play thus far.

greygnarl, how come you didn't push harder on siv? He ignored your question.
What have you noticed about his play? That was a very open ended statement and it seems like you're just hopping on the bandwagon.

VOTE: greygnarl

Again you vote for someone putting another person at L-1, not too concerning yet but part of your reason for voting for Grey kind of contradicts wwith your reasons for going after Shadi...

I'd be uncommitted to pressuring someone if I just let it go when they didn't answer.
Here's the thing: They did answer.
Since Shadi beat around the bush for part of my question, I'll ask again, with additional L-1 pressure.
VOTE: Shadi

And now you vote for Shadi and put him at L-1 (apparently)... does that mean you will now vote for yourself?
you admit to doing it to pressure Shadi but that is exactly why DrP and Grey put people at L-1... contradictions and circular reasoning galore!!!

Speaking of that, Maki, don't hammer without a claim, and don't ask for a claim for no reason.

No no don't hammer it'll look bad ect ect ect... hint hint hammer Shadi please Maki winky face

UNVOTE:
VOTE: salmon

[DoctorPepper]

Spoiler: lots of quotes and stuff

DrPepper, that L-1 vote was awful, especially on page one.
The whole maki shadi thing is interesting, but can we really find associations this early?
VOTE: DrPepper

You vote for someone who puts another person at L-1... I don't have much of a problem yet...
however your claim that we can't find any associations yet is lazy at best and anti town at worst.

but can we really find associations this early?

Why bring it back up? why not actively try to find scum?

Kudos to dr.pepper for trying, even if it's early. His analysis is fair.

Salmo, do you have any other leads you'd like to follow? (You were on Maki's rvs omgus vote before?)

Are you trying to subtly push me onto Maki right here?

The relationship between Maki and Shadi is interesting. It's still to early to learn anything of it, but we'll definitely have to go back to look at it.

Anyways, VOTE: Shadi

I liked the pressure that was on him, and he seemed like he was trying to subtly get me to vote for Maki.

Shadi's play here does seem slightly odd but he does make a good point that you were on to Maki about that RVS OMGUS vote... why not keep pressuring that vote? to paraphrase youreslf;
"how come you didn't push harder on siv? He ignored your question.
What have you noticed about his play?"

vote: shadi

Have fun at L-1, I don't like your play thus far.

greygnarl, how come you didn't push harder on siv? He ignored your question.
What have you noticed about his play? That was a very open ended statement and it seems like you're just hopping on the bandwagon.

VOTE: greygnarl

Again you vote for someone putting another person at L-1, not too concerning yet but part of your reason for voting for Grey kind of contradicts wwith your reasons for going after Shadi...

I'd be uncommitted to pressuring someone if I just let it go when they didn't answer.
Here's the thing: They did answer.
Since Shadi beat around the bush for part of my question, I'll ask again, with additional L-1 pressure.
VOTE: Shadi

And now you vote for Shadi and put him at L-1 (apparently)... does that mean you will now vote for yourself?
you admit to doing it to pressure Shadi but that is exactly why DrP and Grey put people at L-1... contradictions and circular reasoning galore!!!

Speaking of that, Maki, don't hammer without a claim, and don't ask for a claim for no reason.

No no don't hammer it'll look bad ect ect ect... hint hint hammer Shadi please Maki winky face

UNVOTE:
VOTE: salmon

Good vote

[SalmonellaDreams]

You vote for someone who puts another person at L-1... I don't have much of a problem yet...
however your claim that we can't find any associations yet is lazy at best and anti town at worst.

No. Association tells are important, but not until later.

Stand-alone tells are most accurate and useful early in the game and the associative tells are useful later in the game (when at least one mafia has been exposed).

So it's pointless to look for associations before a scum flip.

Why bring it back up? why not actively try to find scum?

Because DP was still trying to use associative tells. Additionally, just because I wasn't actively trying to find scum in one post doesn't mean that I'm not trying to find scum overall.

Shadi's play here does seem slightly odd but he does make a good point that you were on to Maki about that RVS OMGUS vote... why not keep pressuring that vote? to paraphrase youreslf;

Because Maki didn't ignore my accusations.

Again you vote for someone putting another person at L-1, not too concerning yet but part of your reason for voting for Grey kind of contradicts wwith your reasons for going after Shadi...

Once again, it would help if you pointed out which part contradicts my reason for going after Shadi.

No no don't hammer it'll look bad ect ect ect... hint hint hammer Shadi please Maki winky face

If you knew Maki, you'd have said the same thing.

[Shadi1337]

If you knew Maki, you'd have said the same thing.

Maki hammers when he can lol

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

Wait, greygnarl asked me a quetsion? Oh. It was just gut based off the one post that didn't sit right with me. I guess it was sortof over defending?, and the sort of "Okay let's drop all this voting each other."

And Shadi, claim now please.

[Shadi1337]

And Shadi, claim now please.

The following roles are used:
1 Red Godfather
1 Red Mafia Goon
1 Blue Godfather
1 Blue Mafia Goon
5 Townies

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

Okay, not the townish reaction I was looking for.

Not sure if it means scum though.

[Guyett]

tbh whats the point in asking what role someone is in this game? the options are mafia and VT... I can only think of one time someone would hint at being mafia and that is if they are infact townie who is sure someone else is mafia and they want to venge kill them.
Everyone else is going to claim to be town.

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

Well, shadi didn't claim town. He pointed out why claims are pointless in this setup. Someone who denies claiming or even I guess claims VT would probably be town who didn't really read the setup, as scum have way more incentive to know the setup.

(I saw someone else do this in another game once, so yeah I'm not 100% sure this is the best thing ever)

[greygnarl]

Can I get everyone to agree to venge teh hammerer if they get quickhammered.

[greygnarl]

Well, shadi didn't claim town. He pointed out why claims are pointless in this setup. Someone who denies claiming or even I guess claims VT would probably be town who didn't really read the setup, as scum have way more incentive to know the setup.

(I saw someone else do this in another game once, so yeah I'm not 100% sure this is the best thing ever)

This train of thought is retarded. Knowing the setup is not a fucking scumtell.

vote: siv

[Guyett]

@salm well just because jeep said it was true must mean it is.... Ffs /facepalm

[SalmonellaDreams]

You clearly have no idea of who jeep is.