Mafia 60: Face-to-Face - Game over!

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Vig is provable.

Unvote, vote: AndrewS

[ChannelDelibird]

We should all have been voting AndrewS in the first place anyway.

[spectrumvoid]

I'm open to discussion about my vig target, but I'll only reveal who tomorrow.

I claimed because I'd rather we discuss someone and lynch scum before deadline.

[Patrick]

I don't think AndrewS is particularly scummy. I don't even necessarily think that his wagoners were scum, as I would have been very surprised to see him actually get lynched based on the NL suggestion. Slap-on-the-wrist and an overall IGMEOY feeling is about what I expected. And, to be frank, that's more or less what happened.

Why have you just voted him if you don't think he's very suspicious?

Spectrumvoid, I think it's clearly better to reveal your target today. Say you target the mafia GF, who is think is nightkill immune, and say you get killed overnight. If you didn't tell us your target, we gained nothing. If you did tell us your target, we would know you targetted a person and it failed. It's not as if the scum have some ability to roleblock you or protect their own anyway.

[Glork]

I feel like wagoning the living crap out of him.

[AndrewS]

Bad logic there, Glork.

As for SV's claim, I completely believe it. If there are 2 kills tonight, then obviously there is a vig. And obviously if she was scum and there was a real vig, the real vig wouldn't kill tonight for that very reason. Ergo, I suggest that the bandwagon on SV end and we look to another solution. I don't much like the opportunistic wagon on me, considering that it is starting because the obvious choice is removed and one on it doesn't even think that I'm scum. I do suggest IH because he has been on the bandwagons and seemed rather lynch-hungry earlier in the game. But, even if I'm not lynched, I'll probably be vigged...So it probably doesn't matter.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Spectrumvoid, telling us your vig target is very unlikely to aid the scum. You hitting the GF and a cop investigating the same target are both much more realistic scenarios.

Also, AndrewS, just to nitpick, a real vig would kill spec(or at least try to) rather than not kill.

[Patrick]

And obviously if she was scum and there was a real vig, the real vig wouldn't kill tonight for that very reason.

You know there could be 3 vigs in this game right? But I believe the claim. It doesn't sound like a scum's fakeclaim.

FoS Glork

[Thesp]

In and of themselves, not particularly.

So you don't think that this:

Another Andrew paraphrase: I've been holding my vote because I want a chance to bus my scumbuddy and look innocent tomorrow.

looks the least bit propagandic or falsely incriminating?

Perhaps. It's still hysterical, and I did think the holding on to the vote was awesomeness.

Clearly, spectrumvoid will not make it to the endgame, and/or will be proven very shortly.

spectrumvoid is a terrible lynch at this point. Everyone should be moving off of him. Now.

I think he should vig ChannelDelibird, personally.

[Mr Stoofer]

Vote Count

AndrewS: 6 (Thesp, ChannelDelibird, spectrumvoid, Mgm, Glork, CES)
spectrumvoid: 4 (Fritzler, Adele, Zindaras, IH)
IH: 2 (Ether, Patrick)
Mgm: 2 (AndrewS)
Ether: 1 (Nightfall)
Patrick: 1 (MrBuddyLee)

8 to lynch!

118 hours and 34 minutes until deadline!

[Zindaras]

Voidybuns is still a girl.

But if I move my vote off her, she may make endgame, and we all know what happens when voidybuns makes endgame. *sad*

I'm all for her telling us who she's going to vig, though. Also, am I mistaken or could there be Serial Killers in this game?

Unvote

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

I'm all for her telling us who she's going to vig, though. Also, am I mistaken or could there be Serial Killers in this game?

You are, of course, mistaken.

[AndrewS]

Patrick - with 7 possible pro-town roles, the chances of 2 vigs are 1 in 49. The chances of 3 vigs are 1 in 343. Not impossible odds, but odds that I would feel safe on betting on. Regardless, I think SV is a bad lynch. Oh, and I forgot to vote earlier...

Unvote, vote: IH

[MrBuddyLee]

Andrew said he voted me because of my vote on Glork, so that post was to show how his vote no longer makes sense.

Wait, so if you make a scummy play but then you say "do-over" or take it back, that makes you not scummy?

[Glork]

Unvote, Vote: MGM

Still vig IH.

[MrBuddyLee]

Consecutive posts:

I haven't the slightest idea what's up with Mgm. I don't like him, but I like IH less.

Speaking of which, Mgm's posts give off a vibe of overwhelming stupid and I don't actually find them scummy. Hey, Thesp--what

was

your alternate theory?

Hmm.

[Nightfall]

Sorry guys I didnt expect this to take nearly as long as it is.
I was planning on doing a summery of everyones posts and explaining what I found most scummy.

However I have only been able to get through Adele and Andrew's posts.

With tommorrow being Friday I should have a lot more time that I can commit to finishing this so I will finish up then.

With that being said, here is a sum up off both Adele and Andrew's posts...


Adele
-Believed AndrewS' no lynch vote was against the towns best interest.
-Agreed that even if it was just to garner reactions it is scummy enough to recieve a vote.
-Touches on Glork's hyper activity this game.
-Unvotes Andrew saying that the ends to his suposed point does not justify the means.
-Joins the SV wagon because Vind is on it.
-Says that she wasnt completely sure if Glork was truthfull with his no lynch vote.

AndrewS
-Votes CD because of his username.
-Votes no lynch claiming that the odds are against us lynching scum.
-Unvotes and attributes his proposal to the fact that we were still in the random vote stage and didnt seem to be going anywhere.
-Backs his no lynch idea insisting that he was frustrated with how long it was taking for us to get out of the random vote stage. Also states that he is not a newbie and that his actions were not because of inexperience.
-Says that he guesses he should explain his actions, claiming that he was really just testing us to see how we react.
-Says that he wouldnt reasonably attempt to push a no lynch. He then votes Adele claiming that she is the most lynch hungry.
-Says that what he proposed led to reactions and reasons for him to vote Adele
-Votes CES claiming that CES doesnt care what Andrews reasons were and that CES is avoiding his "questions". (I have seen no such questions except for a why would I really propose a no lynch inquirery...)
-States that random voting paterns are impossible to get info from. And repeats that hos proposal was just an attempt to get more info.
-Tells MgM to read the game.
-States his past experiences with the game saying that he is not a newbie.
-Says that he is beyond a shadow of a doubt pro town.
-Says that he believes many of the people that are voting for him are doing so because he disagrees with their logic.
-Says that hes told his reasons for his actions, and if he is lynched and turns up town we should look at those voting him.
-Lists his top 3 suspects CES, Adele and Thesp.
-Says that Thesps logic is wrong and that he is assuming that his intent follows his actions.
-Says that if he was scum he would know that he wouldnt be able to convince the town to go no lynch.
-Votes MgM
-Tells MgM to read the game for his reasons for voting him.
-Claims that he decided to go ahead and vote no lynch because it was something "spectacular that everyone would notice".
-Says that Mgm was the only one that misinterpreted Glorks no lynch vote
-Claims that he reread and that he finds IH scummier than Glork and SV.
-*There is something I am noticing here...and I will come back to it eventually*
-Explains that he is suspect of SV and Glork because of their bandwagoning while less so of IH due to his lack of bandwagoning.
-Repeats that nobody but Mgm thought that Glork was serious.
-Tells thesp that his no lynch vote was a "prod to start the game"
-Tells me that I say that I'll post something tommorrow too much, when I had yet to actually post it all game.
-Explains how if there are 2 nightkills the next night then SV must be telling the truth about her vig claim.
-Rolls off odds of there being additional vigs' in this game, and votes IH for "being on the band wagons and being lynch hungry". All while a few posts ago he said IH was less scummy because he really didnt do those things...

[spectrumvoid]

Nobody hammer till I get back. Rushing off, no time to think about vig target yet.

[IH]

Is this another game where I'm being wagoned for no reason/being recquired for a vig kill?

= )

unvote, vote:MGM

Patrick, I'm pretty sure that the MAIN reason that there was an sv wagon was for the dice.

I'm pretty sure

I

was on the wagon to give sufficient time for another one to form and give us a lynch before deadline. Would you still like me to go through her posts, and put together a case? If not, I'll go back to working on MGM.

= ) If I was a vig it'd be a tossup between Andrew/MGM/maybe Glork if those two weren't an option.

[Adele]

Unvote

.

If I was a vig it'd be a tossup between Andrew/MGM/maybe Glork if those two weren't an option.

Perhaps even literally.

My ideal vigging scenario (I know you're all on tenterhooks ) would be if SV took town input, picked out about 3 solid targets (and told us who, possibly) and random.org'd between them. Randomisation is a valid methodology in Game Theory precisely because of WIFOM issues (although the textbooks don't call it that), and I'm always uncomfortable playing stone-paper-scissors if I don't even know who the opponent is.

I'll try to pick a better target for my vote today - if not, I'll try to present a valid reason for failing. I may well be unable to post over the weekend, so please excuse that, but I'll certainly be back Monday. I'm not lurking.

[Mr Stoofer]

Vote Count

AndrewS: 5 (Thesp ChannelDelibird spectrumvoid Mgm CES)
IH: 3 (Ether, Patrick AndrewS)
spectrumvoid: 2 (Fritzler Adele)
Mgm: 2 (Glork IH)
Ether: 1 (Nightfall)
Patrick: 1 (MrBuddyLee)

Not voting: Zindaras

8 to lynch!

6,184 minutes until deadline!

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Um, Adele, I don't see how picking 3 targets rather than 1 would in any way be a boon to the town. It's not like she's a cop, her target is hardly influence the scum's nightkill. Picking 3 targets would only make the pool of possible investigations smaller.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

And if we do have multiple vigs, then spectrumvoid choosing a target should allow for multiple confirmations of vigilanteness tonight. Three targets would again be suboptimal.

[Adele]

Well, maybe she doesn't want the scum to know who she's targeting, or the scum won't want to hit the same target, so we'd also be limiting their pool. If she were to announce that she's vigging a scum, it's possible that they'd hit her in a vain hope that their choice is entered before her, and I won't presume that she's ok with us knowing who she's killing, but at the same time her role's provable and I'd ideally like it proven, y'know? - Which is why I'd like a commitment from her that X, Y or Z'd be dead come morning. Then if one of them is we can treat her as confirmed.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Patrick - with 7 possible pro-town roles, the chances of 2 vigs are 1 in 49. The chances of 3 vigs are 1 in 343. Not impossible odds, but odds that I would feel safe on betting on. Regardless, I think SV is a bad lynch. Oh, and I forgot to vote earlier...

Not really. If spectrumvoid is telling the truth, a fair assumption, then the odds of having another vig are 13 in 49 and the odds of two additional vigs are 1 in 49.