Mini 387: Suicide Bombers, GAME OVER (at last)!

[Jack]

err he's been voting you for a while.

So he has.
OK, I'll rephrase it.

Why'd you have to say it again when you're already voting?

...he'd unvoted briefly.

*MOD EDIT*

The VOTE COUNT - 6 to lynch

5 molestargazer (HackerHuck, Brutal Assassin, The Central Scrutinizer, Jack, pablito)
3 The Central Scrutinizer (Kelly Chen, Save The Dragons, chaotic_diablo)
1 Brutal Assassin (Twito)
Not Voting: Dead Rikimaru, molestargazer,

[molestargazer]

err he's been voting you for a while.

So he has.
OK, I'll rephrase it.

Why'd you have to say it again when you're already voting?

*Sigh*
I didn't read. Jack, it's all your fault.

He unvoted earlier to avoid a hammer on me. Now I've claimed, he's voted again.
My post didn't change much then, huh?

[pablito]

The claim and post didn't change my mind, so I put back my vote. You and Kc asked about camel fat, so I explained.

[Dead Rikimaru]

I apologize again for the lurkness.
Basically a week at my work can be hellish or peaceful.
If it's peaceful I spend all day on forums and don't leave my room.
If it's hellish I sometimes sleep two hours a day.
It didn't help that some "cuts" were done and now I do the work previously done by three.
Maybe most people would probably think that I'd rather ask to be replaced but if I did that I'd never complete a game. It would be better to leave the site.
I prefer to think of it as an increased difficulty factor in the game.

I'm reading the game and will post what I think today.
Thanks for not hammering before I came back.

[Dead Rikimaru]

About setup:
Maybe we have 3 bombers but only one can place a bomb each night?

Each night they place a bomb on somebody! They will take as many people with them when they die!

What I understand from the rules is that the bombers are like a regular mafia, except that instead of nightkills they place bombs.
Next time we lynch a bomber we will probably get to know their target(s) as well.

[Dead Rikimaru]

Cool! No, MC is gone. There's no reason to bandwagon him even if I were to think he's scum. It'd be better to request a prod and then possible replacement. I prefer some of the more "random" wagons than the more sensible ones.

The thing is that MC was here. The role has been poisoned. Didn't you know that? MC is ALWAYS scum. Even if the guy he is replacing isn't.

So is this how you "nailed" ubertimmy day 1?
I really don't like the way you "try to find scum".
You neither analyze anything nor is guided by guts. You just vote the player you like less.

[Dead Rikimaru]

So if we inadvertantly lynch a townie, we want to lynch a townie that's got a bomb. That's worth noting, since scum may try and divert our attention away from bomb-toting townies.

That's useless unless we are informed if a lynched townie had a bomb in him/her.
If we are not we will just know who were bombed after we lynch a bomber and they die (making the info useless). That's considering my reading of the rules is correct.
In summary we could (in theory) try to get scum after a bombed townie get lynched by watching who tryed to avoid his/her lynch.
Actually I think this plan is rather scummy and only gives scum room to frame another townie. (look! X tryed to avoid Y from getting lynched, and Y was a bombed townie. X was probably who planted the bomb on Y!)
In the above example X was a townie framed for defending Y, a bombed townie.

I haven't put together my top three. If that's still desired then I'll oblige.

Please do.
This information will be very important to look at in the following days. (remember that if i get killed, town) and we now have enogh time to analyze your list.

On a similar note (I'll channel Pablito a bit here), I'm not sure why there has been limited support for a neongrey lynch.

And pablito launches a new fashion trend.

She managed to post every couple of pages with some excuse about not posting and a promise to post later. The only time she got any real scrutiny was when she flaked out on the top three listings. I'll give Kelly a point here for pushing Neongrey a bit.

When did I get expelled from the "let's axe neongrey club"?

[Dead Rikimaru]

I don't think pablito is helping, but I don't see what he could gain as scum by playing as he is, other than a lot of attention. I don't believe he would bank on being able to WIFOM his way out of being lynched. Especially if he's already lost a teammate in UT.

I think pablito is trying to build a "mask". Like Fritzler and other players have.
He just plays oddly and and becomes difficult to read and gets to live longer in games, making his life easier when scum.

NOTE

: HH. ignore the part of the above post where i ask for your top3, at the time I didn't see you had already posted it.

[Dead Rikimaru]

Well, after reading everything since my last post my top3 have not changed.
HH granted the pole position by his theory that "if we inadvertantly lynch a townie, we want to lynch a townie that's got a bomb."

Also, having MGS and TCS in his top3 looks like the perfect excuse for lynching either without having to explain enough(since the probability of one of them being lynched is high).

Twito didn't improve much in my eyes. Most of the time just went for MC just because he doesn't like the player.

Since looks like neither of them will be lynched let me comment on the two serious candidates.

Looks pretty much like when I replaced into the game, in a deadline situation (not that close this time) and with a few candidates to choose from.

Both TCS and MGS seemed to play the newbie card this game, but between them TCS seemed most genuine, specially due to the Mole/Timmy interaction and rolefishing pointed recently in BA's post.
Between them I'd choose MGS.
We still have some days, what would favor more the town? talking more or lynching MGS and advancing the game?

I can hammer now if advancing is the best option.

[Kelly Chen]

I can't think of anything that has to get discussed. I vote hammer.

[Save The Dragons]

Vote: MSG

*starts paying attention again*

[Dead Rikimaru]

Vote: MSG

*starts paying attention again*

hmmm.
interesting.
Don't know if your vote counts since you didn't unvote.
Just in case

vote: MSG

[mikeburnfire]

The VOTE COUNT - 6 to lynch

6 molestargazer (HackerHuck, Brutal Assassin, The Central Scrutinizer, Jack, pablito, Save The Dragons)
2 The Central Scrutinizer (Kelly Chen, chaotic_diablo)
1 Brutal Assassin (Twito)
Not Voting: Dead Rikimaru, molestargazer,

You grab molestargazer by his neck and lead him to the noose. You wrap his neck in rope and kick the bucket from under him. However, something suddenly takes a turn for the worst. The moment he stops breathing, The Central Scrutinzer explodes! A quick examination of molestargazer's corpse lends a clue as to why.

molestargazer, Yellow Bomber, lynched D2

The Central Scrutinizer, townie, exploded D2

It is now night. Choices by Sunday.

[mikeburnfire]

Sorry, sorry. A little late.

You all wake up and nobody has died. Suprised? Day 3 begins!

[The Central Scrutinizer]

I lol'd at the mafia. This game should be a cakewalk now.

Good luck town... thanks for not lynching me.

[Kelly Chen]

This is useful since not only would scum not want to lynch fellow scum, they wouldn't have wanted to lynch TSC either. Very strange decision for a bomb target though.

Jack seems suspicious in this light. He didn't seem to want to lynch MSG until the end. When he presented his TSC-KC pair theory, he preferred to vote for me. (CD thought this was odd given the selected points, and Jack replied that he had started out writing about me. Look at what was going on then, and it seriously looks like this post was intended to try to avert a MSG lynch, but perhaps not in favor of a TSC lynch.)

The main thing I see against Jack opposing an MSG lynch is that Jack voted MSG for most of January ("For reasons in my original post", which back then were "I don't buy mole's noobness" and "He also posts a lot without accusing people"). But it looks like he was the only vote on MSG during this time, so I think it wasn't too dangerous.

bird1111 wasn't on UT, although from bird1111's posts... eh... some pretty blatant defense if that's what it is. I don't know there.

vote: Jack

[pablito]

sure,

vote: Jack

[Jack]

Mole, KC, and pablito were my initial suspects. I started thinking mole was a genuine newbie at some point and got hooked up on the kc-tcs thing which was apparently bogus. I don't see why you think I'd vote TCS or Mole at that point in the game though.

[Twito]

Vote: Brutal Assassin

Check my sig aswell.

[HackerHuck]

HH granted the pole position by his theory that "if we inadvertantly lynch a townie, we want to lynch a townie that's got a bomb."

Also, having MGS and TCS in his top3 looks like the perfect excuse for lynching either without having to explain enough(since the probability of one of them being lynched is high).

Have you placed Kelly in the number two spot now that she’s said pretty much the same thing?
I'll give her kudos for dropping that line, since it's a subtle case for her own innocence.

Nice reach on the second part. If that were true, why did I avoid the TCS bandwagon and place the first vote on MSG?

Pablito is still not giving me a pro-town feeling. Kelly's case on Jack is quite weak, so the "yeah, sure" vote on Jack seems to be pushing a wagon for no reason.

Vote: Pablito

[pablito]

blah blah blah, weak case, reading too much into crap, blah blah blah.

Oh. actually I misread.

unvote: Jack

I know, uncharacteristic and crap.

But I actually thought that KC was talking about how Jack was pushing a pair where one person was scum and the other wasn't and how Jack had a vote on even though the partner was his scum partner. But I totally forgot that MSG was the actual scum and TCS was the townie. If Jack originally pushed the MSG-KC pair, yeah then voting him would've made sense. But that's now how it happened, and all, so I should read more into what MSG all said rather than just not caring.

Nah, time again to not care.

vote: KC

[Brutal Assassin]

Twito, strange vote, seeing as I just came into the game and strongly pushed us out of the way of a TCS lynch and into the MSG lynch. Reasons?

Vote STD

Looking back at the interactions between both Ubertimmy+MSG with STD, I've got a bit more than a hunch. Not much, but just a bit more than a hunch. Note this post, in particular, in which MSG gives his list of suspicions. Keep in mind that he is a

newbie scum

.

The Central Scrutinizer wrote:
So where is the Mole in all of this? I'm curious to know what he's forgotten to say.


That's one way of putting it, I guess.

Along with Twito, I'm gonna need to catch up on this game.

Save the Dragons wrote:
Mole, can you give me a list of players from most suspicious to least suspicious? I would be very happy if you did so.

Well, I'm not sure I can compile something like that - however, I will take a flick through the thread again, have a good read, and post what I think about certain people. Hopefully this'll make you happy enough. Wink

In no particular order...

TCS - My feelings for TCS have bounced up and a down a lot in this game. I don't really know what to think with him. Recently, I do believe he is scummy, after posting about "lol, that's a good game idea", then shortly after discussing starting a "Team building bandwagon on Kelly Chen" for no reason - then on Page 14 trying to reveal StD's role and saying that "If you got guilty, you're insane" - but giving no reason for us to believe that he is town.

StD - I'm unsure why exactly you want this list, however there's been nothing recently to suggest to me that you are scum.

Kelly Chen - To be honest, I'm unsure why everyone wants to vote for Kelly Chen - but my feelings towards her have also gone mad, up and down. Her reasonings are generally sound - although I'm not sure about the "read it for yourself" reasonings. One problem I've spotted here is that on Post 290, she asked people who she suspected if agreed with her that they are scum - surely a strange question because everyone would obviously say no. I understand that this post about Kelly Chen has been a bit up-and-down, but that's what I think - even if it is a bit muddled.

Pablito -
Quote:
Well it is your action because you're allowed to choose to be lazy or you're allowed to choose to not be lazy. You obviously chose to be lazy and I respect that choice, and in fact, I'm currently thinking you're more pro-town than ever because of it. But my whole argument has been that you have chosen something. We keep arguing about our perceptions of words, but I think our perceptions of alignment have stayed stable lately. So I hope this argument can be dropped soon.

Basically, this means that pablito is saying "I don't mind you being lazy and not contributing - in fact, that means you're pro-town". I find this slightly odd. Pablito is the one who has set my scum alarms going off a fair bit recently.
Quote:
Yeah, still not liking Kelly Chen's reactions to everything.

Can you give us some examples?
Quote:
Just for that, vote: masterchief

Then unvote, vote: the central scrutinizer

Here (Post 256). He never actually gave any reasoning for his vote - all he said after was thanking TCS.

Masterchief - Owch. Even after me voting for him for not contributing, I still find nothing that could help out from Page 12. He gave an excuse of being lazy - an awful one in my opinion.

Twito - See masterchief. Nothing of use since Page 9 - although he did say he would be inactive for xmas and new year, I'm hoping to see something from him soon.

Jack & Dead Rik - I see nothing here but people trying to help out, and saying what they think.

****Also Noted, lack of things to say****

I guess that about sums it up. If there's anything I've forgotten, I'll add it on.

Knowing that 2 of the people he attacks here were town (TCS, and Myself) I think the fact that he defends Kelly and has nothing at all to say about 3 people is suspicious. The wording of "I'm unsure why exactly you want this list" has a subtle implication of "Because you know who they are". You'd think he would have had more to say about or in reply to STD bringing it up.

[pablito]

unvote, vote: StD

I can be up for that wagon.

[chaotic_diablo]

BA, let's first find how STD is scummy instead of making indirect assumptions based on the actions of a claimed scum. It's to avoid any set-ups. Even if we assume that MSG is a newbie scum, it's still a logical fallacy to think like that. By the way, is Sailor Jerry in this game?

KC's case is weak, I agree with HH. I'm going to go back and dig up my notes sometime in the late future and place my vote.

[Brutal Assassin]

Mafia is about the uninformed majority figuring out who the INFORMED minorities are. If both Ubertimmy and MSG knew who the scum were, and we absolutely KNOW that they both were scum, it would be stupid for us NOT to look at their comments.

STD is a better player than both MSG and Ubertimmy, and is less likely to drop tells which we can pick up on to decide he is scum. As such, I'll take any information that CONFIRMED SCUM gave me rather than trying to read into everyone's posts. At the very least, pointing these out creates direct responses which can be judged for scuminess.

STD has lurked, for the most part, and only hopped on the MSG wagon at the last possible moment.

All he has said for the last 10 pages or so was that he would be surprised if TCS turned up town. Post 435 is the last time he provided actual content, and it largely comes off as a post slapping MSG on the wrist for playing poorly. This was regarding his list of 3 suspicious people, which everyone was asked to post.

FoS C_D

for suggesting we don't take advantage of a nooby scum's poor play.