That last sentence is just akilmenator wrote:the reason i ask is because if you look at the set up of the other game, once people were lynched they became on the opposite side instead of dying. so for example, if XXX were a protownie and we lynched him, XXX would not die he would come back as a player for scum and likewise with YYY if YYY were a scum buddie and was lynched, YYY would come back as a townie. it was in the setup of the other game. i am not saying we need to try it, i just want to make sure that it is out there if i get NK'ed. i thought that klebians summary was good, but again, i would like him to outline who he thinks is scum and why, not summarize the game. he has proven he is willing to work and the summary has been good to refresh my memory, but again, i dont like that he is not willing to put forth who he thinks is scum.
MrBuddyLee wrote: This game had a scum godfather, which is a pretty huge advantage for scum. I'd be surprised if they got an additional benefit from recruiting dead townies to their side.
that was again, probably a way to balance the game IMO. just speculation though, i am not pushing for an ozy lynch, just putting my opinion out so that if i am night killed i will have had something to contribute to the game.MrBuddyLee wrote:By the way, if kilm's claimish thingy is true, we had two watcher/trackerish roles on the town side. Possible, but atypical.
You did fail to answer his first question here. However, considering that question says "sounds like he knows ozy will be scum", it isn't particularly valid. I was surprised you didn't mention this though.geraintm wrote:Your post here is very lazy for someone who is doing a review of the game. I clearly say why i thought lynching Ozy was a bad idea in a later post where i explained what i thought an "unfair lynch" was. As that post i am quoting of myself was 4 hours after the one you quoted, i find it hard to beleive you missed it. How did you, or was your quoting just quiet selective?klebian wrote: Then geraint posts (kinda near a deadline)I'll be disappointed if he goes unless he's scum seems like trying to cover up that he already knows ozy will be scum. I don't like this post, the points against ozy were fairly solid, and he doesn't really say why he doesn't like an ozy lynch.geraintm wrote:if ozy does end up getting lynched, it will be one of the worst lynches i have seen. just a truly poor game to try and get a 'fair' lynch from, if that makes sense. i'll be very disappointed if ozy goes (unless he turns up scum of course)
and if we get two new players, they'll have like 5 days to actualyl post, almost worthlessthis game makes me sad.
I've taken a lot of my Mafia time the last few days to finish a read of this game. I'm still not really seeing the geraint thing or the kleb thing without a little more looking over, but here are some comments about other people:ShadowLurker wrote:Do you have some thoughts than who you think are scum then? If you're not happy where everyone is going, an alternative is always nice.
I was trying to make the point that I wasn't going after them because they were easy targets - because I didn't even know. I thought it might've been a slip, the attacks on me - who said they post that way as town? If that couldn't be verified, then the attack was likely craplogic.Norinel wrote:Turbo: There's the easy target thing, which has been discussed a lot today already. He's very explicitly shifted the burden of metagame research to the people who want to use the argument against him, which I could either see as reasonable or saying that the argument has no bearing unless you're willing to spend a lot of time poring through other games. Other than that, I didn't see too much that caught my eye.
I told him to go look at the post i made quoted below.Turbovolver wrote:
You did fail to answer his first question here. However, considering that question says "sounds like he knows ozy will be scum", it isn't particularly valid. I was surprised you didn't mention this though.
I think it is unfair of you to say i hadn't answered his question when i already had.geraintm wrote:i think it would be an unfair lynch because too many people would have been able to stay effectivly silent for the whole of today, giving up little info for tomorrow. i dislike it strongly if people are able to not get involved in a lynch. a fair lynch is if there is plenty of discussion and everyone has had they say.
in this case, i think it wouldn't be good if ozy ends up lynched when at the same time mod is sending out prods to 30% of the people playing...
agree with thiskilmenator wrote:I am NOT pushing for an ozy lynch, I am just making a point that ozy is not yet off the hook.
What's teh first question? I can't find another one in hereTurbovolver wrote:Uhh geraintm, there's a reason I specified thefirstquestion. The post you linked too answered the next question.
klebian wrote:
Then geraint posts (kinda near a deadline)I'll be disappointed if he goes unless he's scum seems like trying to cover up that he already knows ozy will be scum. I don't like this post, the points against ozy were fairly solid, and he doesn't really say why he doesn't like an ozy lynch.geraintm wrote:if ozy does end up getting lynched, it will be one of the worst lynches i have seen. just a truly poor game to try and get a 'fair' lynch from, if that makes sense. i'll be very disappointed if ozy goes (unless he turns up scum of course)
and if we get two new players, they'll have like 5 days to actualyl post, almost worthless
I had to read klebian's quote 3 times before I got it. I seem to be incapable of understanding posts with even slightly imperfect grammar lately. So:Turbovolver wrote:OK, so it's an accusation, not a question.klebian wrote:I'll be disappointed if he goes unless he's scum seems like trying to cover up that he already knows ozy will be scum.
/agree, but I don't know if this accusation can be "answered" like a question could. What can gerain say in reply except, "well it might seem that way to you but it's not"?klebian sorta wrote:"I'll be disappointed if he goes unless he's scum" seems like trying to cover up that he already knows ozy will be scum
I mean I still don't get it, you took three tries. I don't think the most likely explanation here is geraintm understood it and thought "nope, not worth responding to."Turbovolver wrote:You did fail to answer his first question here. However, considering that question says "sounds like he knows ozy will be scum", it isn't particularly valid. I was surprised you didn't mention this though.
But Ozy hasn't died yet. Maybe heTurbovolver wrote:You mean you understood it?
I still don't.
Like I said, how can he be knowing Ozy was already scum if Ozywasn't?
He certainly wasn't revealed as scum though, which was my point. If they really were scum partners together, that means geraintm doesn't have any motivation for hedging his bests when it turns out "Ozy will be scum", because in fact Ozy will survive the lynch and not get revealed as scum.Adele wrote:But Ozy hasn't died yet. Maybe heTurbovolver wrote:You mean you understood it?
I still don't.
Like I said, how can he be knowing Ozy was already scum if Ozywasn't?was... er,is.
I don't really see how you get this from klebian's words, but it is a reasonable point. However if Ozy is scum with geraintm, it doesn't make much sense to say it. If not, then it's either a throw-away comment (geraintm townie) or feigning incomplete knowledge (geraintm scum). I don't really see a way to discern from the two, so yeah, I guess I agree geraintm doesn't have anything to explain.Adele wrote:I mean, I think what klebian was getting at is that gerain's "I'll be disappointed if he goes unless he's scum" looks like someone trying to oppose a lynch but hedge their bets for the eventual discovery that ozy's scum and therefore gerain was opposing a lynch on scum.
Like, gerain's trying to push the "this is a stupid wagon" card but at the same time the "if he comes up scum, it's on record I never said he definately wouldn't" card.
[/quote]Turbovolver wrote:You mean you understood it?
I still don't.
I mean I still don't get it, you took three tries. I don't think the most likely explanation here is geraintm understood it and thought "nope, not worth responding to."
Putting words into Klebian's mouth aren't you?Adele wrote: I mean, I think what klebian was getting at is that gerain's "I'll be disappointed if he goes unless he's scum" looks like someone trying to oppose a lynch but hedge their bets for the eventual discovery that ozy's scum and therefore gerain was opposing a lynch on scum.
glad that you came round to this point of view in the end.Turbovolver wrote: I don't really see a way to discern from the two, so yeah, I guess I agree geraintm doesn't have anything to explain.
Yeah, sorry, I guess that was badly worded. What I meant was, that saying "I'll be disappointed with this lynch (unless he turns up scum)" is fairly redundant. It seems like something scum would say, because it looks like this statement is overcompensating. I think the inclusion of this sentence in his post was scummy because it seems to me as if he's trying to sound as pro-town as possible while still opposing an ozy lynch.Adele wrote:But Ozy hasn't died yet. Maybe heTurbovolver wrote:You mean you understood it?
I still don't.
Like I said, how can he be knowing Ozy was already scum if Ozywasn't?was... er,is.
I mean, I think what klebian was getting at is that gerain's "I'll be disappointed if he goes unless he's scum" looks like someone trying to oppose a lynch but hedge their bets for the eventual discovery that ozy's scum and therefore gerain was opposing a lynch on scum.
Like, gerain's trying to push the "this is a stupid wagon" card but at the same time the "if he comes up scum, it's on record I never said he definately wouldn't" card.