Two-Headed Mafia 2 - GAME OVER!

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

The fact that you keep referring to "objectively, the set-up could be X" is really obviating the fact that you are mafia. Townspeople do not talk about "objective" stances on the game: they talk about what the game is.

Subjectively,

I am town

. If Lowell believed me in that, this game'd be over. So using that as premise for my argument would be silly and pointless.

For him to say this with confidence he'd have to know we're scum and you're cult. But see, we're not. We're cult and you're apparently town.

No, I know you're the Mafia and I know Lowell is town.

Lowell, keep your head straight, look at your win condition and act in accordance with it.

[Lowell]

All right, I've made my decision.

CES is right that if I vote for him I give the town 0% chance of winning, and that if I believe there is even a 1% of CES being town I have a duty to vote for PJ/MBL to give us a chance.

However, I don't buy that there is any chance, on any level, that CES is town. So it comes down to who "deserves" it more, I guess.

For the record, I think both PJ/MBL and CES have played a GREAT game. Neither of you deserve to win more than the other. But:

1) It's true that the cult has been key in finding mafia. The hard run of not being able to convert anyone was definately a factor in finding the other scum.

2) I wasn't overwhelmed with the performances of glork/Mos or Adele/Pooky, but in hindsight they were in trouble when the cult leader accidentally discovered their alignment.

3) The sad part about this from the town's perspective is each opposing faction, Mafia and Cult, have been key in destroying the other.... though accidentally. And STILL we managed to lose.

[Lowell]

vote PJ/MBL

Congrats, scum, you win.

PJ, I appreciate what you were trying to do with your honesty, but I can't reward you just for that. I admire, on some level, that CES refuses to admit the obvious (his guilt), even in the face of overwhelming evidence. As well, I think he dodged some bullets in the past few nights and turned opinions around (particularly yesterday) when it seemed he was sure to be lynched.

Regardless, suffice it to say that this was a virtual coinflip, if not a literal one. Like I said, you both deserve to win more than I (or the town) does, so really either way will sit okay with me.

[Thok Thok]

Curious. Will I have to run off to some other Two-Headed Paradise?

Final Vote Count

PJ/MBL (2) (CES/OTU, Lowell/Sprotalic)
CES/OTU (1) (PJ/MBL)

Courk? Is it safe in this town?

[petroleumjelly]

I hate this game. So very much.

[petroleumjelly]

Also, I will point out that the irony of this is staggering. I'll let the lynch scene speak for itself, I suppose.

[Courk]

Lowell/sprontalic dejectedly place their vote.

"Petroleumjelly, MrBuddyLee, I'm sorry," says Lowell, as the lever is pulled on PJ/MBL.

Resigned to their fate, Lowell/sprontalic then turn their attention to Cogito Ergo Sum/

Mgm

OverTheUnder. "As a representative for all the dead townies, I just wanted to say you deserve to win more than the rest of us. Congratultions. Go easy on us."

"I deserve to win just as much as you do. And congratulations to you, too!"

"What?"

"I'm town, just like you! We won!"

Indeed, 'twas so. PJ/MBL were the Mafia Godfather. CES/OTU and Lowell/sprontalic were townies. Congratulations, town!

See next post for notes.

[Courk]

Notes:

The Mafia GF was just told that they had some limited protection form other roles. What this meant was that they would seem innocent to a sane cop and guilty to an insane cop, and couldn't be killed by a vig, but could be roleblocked.

The doc was non-self-protecting.
Coron, StallingChamp/DrippingGoofball were a sane cop.
Fritzler/ibby were an insane cop
The cult could only recruit plain townies. They never successfully recruited anyone. In order, they targets were: Pablito/STD, adele/Pooky, and Glork/MOS. They never sent in a choice for night 4.

I bet you're all wondering what Fritzler's suspension was all about. When he replaced in, amb sent me a PM that said Fritzler couldn't replace in, since he knew amb's role. Fritzler hadn't mentioned anything, and I trust that he would if he learned of someone else's role. So I suspended him to prevent any posting or other communication while I found out what he could know, how amb knew Fritzler knew, and whether Fritzler had told TSQ. It turns out amb was mistaken, and obviously there was nothing Fritzler could have told TSQ, so they were all OK and the suspension was lifted. Sorry I couldn't provide a full explanation earlier.

petroleumjelly: You actually missed my first go at modding: Mafia 23 (I think of it as Smilie mafia, though I didn't name it at the time) - No cult, no gunsmith.

I kept roles in this game simpler than in other games I've run because I wasn't quite sure how the two-headedness would affect things. The first Two-Headed Mafia was so small and short that I couldn't really get the best idea of how it'd affect a full-sized game.

Amb's early day 5 reasoning that no-lynch would be a good idea amused me -- At that point lynching was the only way for the town to win, since the vigilante couldn't kill the GF.

[quote=petroleumjelly]Cults win once they control 50% of the town, and I believe that was also how Courk used them. [/quote]
Cults win with a majority -- 50% + 1. One cultist and one townie results in a tie.

I liked DGB's "Bollocks. Multitask." post .

Finally, I have some questions, and welcome any critiques you have on this game/my modding.

Questions:

Was there anything I could have done to allow the game to run smoother, considering the site down time and number of replacements?
What did you like about this game?
What didn't you like about this game?
Was the "Day X starts on this post" list in the first post useful?
Was there ever a point when you thought one player was suspicious, but you didn't feel that way about his or her partner?
Was there ever a time you found your other head to be scummy?
Did having a partner affect your usual playing style?
Did you enjoy having a partner, or did you see it as a hassle?
Did you ever delay posting so you could check something over with your partner first?
How often did you talk to your partner during days? During nights?
Any improvements you can suggest about modding in general?

For players with abilities: Did having a second head significantly affect your choice of targets?

For players without abilities: Did having a partner make the game more interesting?

And a special thanks to Thok for being my co-mod.

[Thestatusquo]

Next time I hope to have a partner who a) Participates (ubertimmy) I think it would have been awesome to be able to discuss like PJ/Mbl did. 0r b) Doesn't have a target on his back (fritz)

[petroleumjelly]

Was there anything I could have done to allow the game to run smoother, considering the site down time and number of replacements?

You could have modkilled some random townsperson. For some reason, that never seems to happen when

I'm

scum.

What did you like about this game?

Might answer this later.

What didn't you like about this game?

Too many ways to catch or kill three lowly mafiates.
1.) Sane Cop
2.) Insane Cop
3.) Role-Blocker
4.) Cult Leader (acts as Cop)
5.) Vigilante

Was the "Day X starts on this post" list in the first post useful?

Not for the game while I was playing it, but it helps for those who want to read the game later. I would suggest you do it in the future, if that's the point of this question.

Was there ever a point when you thought one player was suspicious, but you didn't feel that way about his or her partner?

Not really relevant here... we killed the people we were thought were SK on nights 1 and 2, and by that time we realized Amb was either SK or Vigilante, and that he was killing off worthless townspeople, so we left him alive.

Was there ever a time you found your other head to be scummy?

Well, I

did

keep getting this funny feeling that he was scum for some reason.

Did having a partner affect your usual playing style?

Yes. MBL and I tend to disagree on many things. When he was actually around to talk to, we had some odd conversations which effected our posts and timing of posts.

Did you enjoy having a partner, or did you see it as a hassle?

It was enjoyable in a way, but a hassle in another. Problems come with the fact that you start to get into the mentality of "meh, my partner will get to it" and then nothing gets done. I am positive this is what caused 30 pages of spam.

Did you ever delay posting so you could check something over with your partner first?

Not as much as I would think. I mostly used it as a pretense to think about what I actually wanted to post. Whether or not I talked to MBL never really changed whether or not I would have posted things.

How often did you talk to your partner during days? During nights?

MBL is lazy. He never talked to me unless he had to.

Any improvements you can suggest about modding in general?

I might suggest people using dual-accounts; having to remember who was partnered with who was very confusing, and made rereading the thread a constant headache.

For players with abilities: Did having a second head significantly affect your choice of targets?

Not really. It was the other mafia members which changed the choices. If I had my way, we would have killed spectrumvoid/klebian on Night Three instead of Thesp. All the other choices I would have kept the same regardless of partner.

[petroleumjelly]

I will not quote night conversation. However, here is how things went roughly in my mind:

Night One:

StD and Pablito are bickering with each other in-thread. I had considered using this as scum in order to draw an investigation towards me {since I figured we had some sort of investigation immunity}. This led me to believe Std/Pablito were doing something similar, and thus likely to be SK. I had them killed.

Night Two:

I actually don't quite remember how we came to decide on killing TSS/Yos2. Probably because TSS was suspicious of Glork, and we didn't want him to expand on those thoughts. Also, they were rather difficult for us to read, so better off with them dead.

Day Three:

I watch as Pooky-Adele do absolutely nothing to stop their lynch. I am thoroughly disgusted, especially since neither of them ever contributed to night discussion.

Night Three:

I told scum-buddies that Amb was very likely the SK/Vig, and that spec/kleb were likely a third Cop or a Cult Leader with a failed recruit. I wanted to kill spec/kleb. But Glork was worred about Thesp catching him. So once again, we do what was in the best interest of Glork.

Day Four:

I watch in exasperation as Glork-MoS follow in Pooky/Adele's footsteps. Neither of them had ever really contributed to night discussion either, except to suggest we kill people who were suspicious of

them

. How ironic that they get called out as scum by the very person I wanted to kill, and the best they can do is roll over and die. Once again, I am disgusted. Also at this point I become very ticked that I was given "high-profile" partners, since that greatly increases the chances that we will either be investigated, a cult recruit target, role-blocked, or killed by SK (since we couldn't be sure if we were dealing with SK or Vig).

Night Four:

I cross my fingers hoping that the SK/Vig kills CES/Mgm, or somebody equally scummy, while we clearly had no choice but to kill spec/kleb.

Day Five:

A doozie of a day.

With six alive, suspecting I am up against 1-2 cultists and a Vig/SK, I had to play this carefully. I originally wanted to lynch CES, but I saw one of two endgame scenarios if that were the case:

A.) Zindaras, me, Lowell
B.) Nightson, me, Lowell

I couldn't risk Zindaras being in the endgame, considering I had slim chances of getting him to vote for Lowell. I would have liked to bring Nightson to endgame, but I figured Amb would kill him and leave me with Zindaras (which was confirmed in that Amb killed Nightson N5).

So instead of lynching CES, I changed directions and decided my best chances lie in lynching Zindaras, which would leave one of the following:

A.) Nightson, me, Lowell
B.) CES, me, Lowell

... both of which were acceptable, especially since CES was easy lynch-bait considering he was dead-wrong on about everything possible the entire game.

I even had a nice story to go along with this in the event that I felt it necessary to claim cult (as it happened), but alas I never got to make that post. It would have been something like:

It should be very clear why I changed directions on D5 and decided not to lynch CES. It was clear to me that he was Mafia. And it was further clear that lynching him would lose me, the final cultist, the game.

If CES had been lynched, I would have been a single cultist left in a game with 3 townies and 1 Vigilante. The Vigilante would kill overnight, the town would lynch somebody D6, and the Vigilante would then finish me off N6, so that I lose no matter what.

So - I needed to rid the town of the killing roles during the night instead of during the day. As such, I outed Amb (who was obviously the SK/Vig) so that CES would be forced to kill him overnight (hence leaving me alive). I also made sure that Amb would kill one of CES or Nightson overnight (hence leaving me alive). This would ensure that I was left in endgame with a maximum of one killer [CES] who I could lynch, or possibly two townspeople, one of which would probably be scummy enough that I could lynch them.

Blah blah...

I feel this is a very undeserved win for the town overall. They didn't really catch scum on their own whatsoever, and they were completely clueless as to the set-up the entire time. They constantly allowed themselves to be led through lynches, and even the Vigilante was under the thumb of the mafia after we recognized the pattern of killing.

Overall, not a happy game for jelly. Yet another testament that I doomed to lose as scum.

[MrBuddyLee]

MBL is lazy. He never talked to me unless he had to.

Funny, I thought we talked a lot and played a very solid game together. I suppose the multitude of "I"s and the distinct lack of "we"s in your last post implies you feel otherwise.

[klebian]

whaa? Bah, I made cult lose. I was SO SO SO SURE i sent in a night choice. bah bah bah. Bah^infinity.

I lose at mafia.

[MrBuddyLee]

Who did you try to recruit?

[Courk]

The best the cult could have done is tie, since 1 is not a majority out of 2.

[Skruffs]

I replaced in for all of four posts and got myself lynched but I was hoping the town would see PJ's 'anti-killer-lynching' the day I get lynched and reconsider her. Oh well.
Well played. Lowell you had me almost peeing myself in nervous anticipation for a few hours at work today >.>

[Fritzler]

I win twice!

[mole]

You actually missed my first go at modding: Mafia 23 (I think of it as Smilie mafia, though I didn't name it at the time) - No cult, no gunsmith.

I remember that game! Stupid Lepton curse lost it for us though. :(

[Zindaras]

Was there anything I could have done to allow the game to run smoother, considering the site down time and number of replacements?

More proactive prodding? That's pretty much it. I rather like deadlines myself.

What did you like about this game?

The fact that I was right about Glork being scum without even reading the thread. I was rather amused with Skruffs as well.

What didn't you like about this game?

Guilty conscience from not reading the thread.

Was the "Day X starts on this post" list in the first post useful?

Those are always useful. Every mod should use those.

Was there ever a point when you thought one player was suspicious, but you didn't feel that way about his or her partner?

Nope, but I didn't play a lot, either.

Was there ever a time you found your other head to be scummy?

Hells yeah. That's pretty much how we got lynched.

Did having a partner affect your usual playing style?

No.

Did you enjoy having a partner, or did you see it as a hassle?

Oh, it was fun, though I would've preferred to have picked my own.

Did you ever delay posting so you could check something over with your partner first?

No.

How often did you talk to your partner during days? During nights?

Not a whole lot. I sent CDB a PM, to which he responded with "No, I want to be replaced". I talked a bit to Skruffs, mainly to get him to post.

Any improvements you can suggest about modding in general?

Cults are the antithesis of fun.

For players without abilities: Did having a partner make the game more interesting?

I didn't particularly get more interested after Skruffs replaced in.



We got lynched in a really really stupid way. I felt like the entire town wasn't even attempting to argue and were letting the scum (Cessy/PJ/MBL) lead them to their doom.

As for why I was pretty much "Ok. Whatever" in conversations: I didn't read the thread. I had no feelings, no emotions, for this game. They only started coming after we got in trouble, as they always do with me. Also, personally, as I stated in thread, while I see masons as an interesting role for coordinating attacks and such, a mason is only really very interesting if they aren't bonded. Unbonded masons can leave suspicions and directions with their buddies when they die. What can I talk about with my mason as a normal townie? Who we think is scum? If I think someone is scum, I post it in thread.

Pretty much everything a vanilla townie has to discuss with their buddies is stuff that I feel they should post in thread.

[Glork]

We got lynched in a really really stupid way. I felt like the entire town wasn't even attempting to argue and were letting the scum (Cessy/PJ/MBL) lead them to their doom.

Except CES wasn't scum.


I find it a little ridiculous that the town didn't find a single scumbag and still managed to win. Cult outing the Mafiates, Mafiates outing the cult. Technically Lowell lynched PJ, but that's somewhat moot, as he thought that

both

were scum anyway.


I have taken the liberty of numbering your questions:

1. Was there anything I could have done to allow the game to run smoother, considering the site down time and number of replacements?
2. What did you like about this game?
3. What didn't you like about this game?
4. Was the "Day X starts on this post" list in the first post useful?
5. Was there ever a point when you thought one player was suspicious, but you didn't feel that way about his or her partner?
6. Was there ever a time you found your other head to be scummy?
7. Did having a partner affect your usual playing style?
8. Did you enjoy having a partner, or did you see it as a hassle?
9. Did you ever delay posting so you could check something over with your partner first?
10. How often did you talk to your partner during days? During nights?
11. Any improvements you can suggest about modding in general?

1. I think you did a superb job, all things considered. There's really nothing that I can think of that I would have suggested you improve on, as far as continuity goes.
2. The modding was fantastic. The mechanic was unique, and I think it merits another game sometime in the future, possibly with some tweaks involved.
3. I'm going to agree with PJ that 3 scums without . Late in the game, I was holding out hope for a traitor role, possibly. I had actually guessed that Spec/Kleb were a Gunsmith (not a Cult Leader), and almost askekd them that, ready to claim One-Shot Vigilante if they acknowledged it. I have no idea if that would've been a good thing or a bad thing. It would've outed Amb as he counterclaimed, but it probably would've handed the game to the Cult, rather than giving us a win. On the other hand, I almost claimed SK (hoping to out what I thought was an actual SK, or, at least, to get the town to lynch elsewhere).
4. I don't really use them all that much... I tend to do re-reads in large chunks, straight on through. Either that or I focus on one or two players' posts specifically. I can see how it could be useful, though, and a handful of Mods here always link to the beginning and end of each day.
5. Yes, a bit. I can't remember exactly, but I remember getting conflicted vibes a couple of times. I also recall thinking "well X is playing like they might be power, but Y isn't" at some point or another.
6. No, MoS was obvnotscum.
7. A bit, yeah. It MoS and I each basically take a gameday off to start the game. Other than that, not so much. We didn't have very good communication throughout the game.
8. I enjoyed it... that was the theme of the game, afterall.
9. Nope. In hindsight, I suppose I could/should have.
10. Rarely. MoS got quite busy, and though we talked while we could, it wasn't very often at all. Once, during N4, I managed to get PJ, MBL, MoS, and I in an AIM chatroom together, but it quickly became more or less a conversation between just PJ and me.
11. Negatory. See above: The modding was terrific.

[DrippingGoofball]

We were cops - but the problem was that neither of my second heads ever communicated with me!

It's too bad I was cursed with mute second heads. I didn't really get the two-headed mafia experience.

We didn't do much in this game, but for some reason we got nightkilled anyway. And it seems, not by the Mafia!

Who nightkilled us and why?

[Glork]

Amb vigged you, I believe. You'll have to take it up with him.

[Zindaras]

Except CES wasn't scum.

It doesn't change the fact that that was how I felt at the time. Regardless, it was PJ who really led that lynch, in my opinion.

The Cult did not out PJ. In my opinion, the playing in this game wasn't very good (and yes, I'm including myself in that). PJ/MBL was the only pair which did reasonably well.

[Lowell]

HELL YEAH!!!!!!



Okay I should come clean on this one...

I lied about my reasoning for that last vote. At first I actually DID flip a coin to decide who to vote for, so certain was I that CES was scum. It came up "CES", and I actually typed a post where I concede victory to the "cult".

However, before I sent it, I thought.... fuck it, I would look like the absolute dumbest, worst, most ridiculously foolish player ever to

intentionally

throw the game on the offchance that PJ

was

lying about being cult and CES was actually telling the truth. So I changed it and made up reasons to cover the fact that I was really just too insecure to be sure about CES' alignment.

Whatever. I'm fucking awesome at this game. In your face, scum. Go town.

[Glork]

I'm not entirely sure I believe that explanation.


But either way, remind me never to play Mafia with you again.