Micro 193 - HD had a Greater Idea (Mafia)! [GAME OVER]

[DrDolittle]

As of Post 39, you think Grim is town. So we will ignore 35.

Of 38, 47, 50; you're asking him to explain something, not a valid scum tell

Of 55, You acuse him of RVSing, but you didn't say anything Trollie's vote on 57 2 posts later, which has exactly the same format

Of 88, See post 100 and 140. He's not alone.

Of 106, Many people don't give out reasons for their vote. At that time, Mac's case was still unnoticed, and I think it gives rather town points for him calling it out.

Again, do you have anything actually valid, something that tells me you are not picking on Grim because he has a big wagon?

[Guyett]

as for my reactions towards trollies posts there have been 2 I thnk? one when I called him out for being desperate and the other when I gave out to him for not voting for you after asking for people to lynch you, then realising he already had voted for you.

[DrDolittle]

because I hadnt iso'd hime yet...
you can slot him in as light town now that I've had a brief look over his ISO.

I also left out ETL and Jason, is that a problem too?

stop getting so pissy when I don't believe you mate.
you voted without a reason and then posted reasons later... how do I know that you did have those thoughts all along? should I take your claim at face value? There is no proof that you did have those thoughts before as you didn't post them.

I don't see why your reasons for attakcing grim doesn't fit with trollie

[ChannelDelibird]

Jason, your argument seems to be "I asked for alignment preferences as town in all those games so that I could be protected when I did it as scum". That would count as playing against my wincon in those games as town and thus I would not do it. I play my town game naturally and fake that town game as scum, not the other way around, because that is how you play to your wincon.

I know you're saying "it's only WIFOM, it cannot help" but, let me be absolutely clear about this,

the only reason I continue to do it is because it has genuinely helped inform my scumhunting (in a way that made me more successful at it than without) in previous games

. If I thought it was actively hurting my ability to pick through WIFOM I would have stopped doing it. It is perfectly OK for you to disagree with me on this but that does not mean that we are opposite alignments. I don't know why you are continuing to argue with me over it, nor why your vote is still on me. Regardless of whether or not you agree with the practice, it is logically proven that my doing it does not affect my alignment in any way.

You've pointed out things that you think are scummy from other players in your catch-up but your vote is still on me despite your reasoning being proved null. Why are you still voting for me?

[ChannelDelibird]

Still think Grim is scum, partly because of how it's

killing

him that I won't engage with him on his terms about my read.

[Guyett]

As of Post 39, you think Grim is town. So we will ignore 35.

Of 38, 47, 50; you're asking him to explain something, not a valid scum tell

Of 55, You acuse him of RVSing, but you didn't say anything Trollie's vote on 57 2 posts later, which has exactly the same format

Of 88, See post 100 and 140. He's not alone.

Of 106, Many people don't give out reasons for their vote. At that time, Mac's case was still unnoticed, and I think it gives rather town points for him calling it out.

Again, do you have anything actually valid, something that tells me you are not picking on Grim because he has a big wagon?

honestly I didn't like how quick grim was on to mac's role claim looking to make it out to be scum.

[Guyett]

Not that it matters what I say DrD, I doubt anything I say will change your opinion of me... you've been on my back pretty much since day 1 :shrug:

[ChannelDelibird]

DrDolitte: I like what you're doing with Guyett, it's making my townread on him fade, but I'd still rather lynch Grimgroove.

[JasonWazza]

You've pointed out things that you think are scummy from other players in your catch-up but your vote is still on me despite your reasoning being proved null. Why are you still voting for me?

UNVOTE: ChannelDelibird

It's more about the fact that i didn't think about unvoting

I'll wait for a vote count before voting.

[ChannelDelibird]

(4) Grimgroove - TheTrollie, Mac, CDB, Guyett
(2) JasonWazza - EspeciallyTheLies, Cheery Dog
(1) Mac - Grimgroove
(1) Guyett - DrDolitte

(1) Not voting - JasonWazza

[Grimgroove]

Guyett's interactions with Trollie. He's buddying.

well I'm not sober people weren't playing so I thought I'd have a chat.....

I'll stop if it irritates you that much.

CDB am i dumb for not voting Mac?

why dont we like whoever im currently voting

(i think ^this^)

but im at work so i cant check right now

Is that for me or Mac?

This question was never answered. But it was obvious he was referring to you. Yet he never explained why he thought he voted on you, and you never asked why he would.

they. r. both. obv. scum.

Grim and Mac?

Double-checking to make sure you're still his buddy.

I have ISO'd grim already, I'll have a look at Mac in a bit... just watching a film

@ trollie desperate much

lol

"You're constant repeption isn't helping and seems desperate, but it's ok because lol, you're my buddy".

He's not... if you had time to post that surely you have time to vote

vote for him then... or do you really want to hammer?
you are not very committing with votes onto a wagon are you haha

haha

And I never said trollie is your scumbuddy. Way to twist my words. I said you're buddying him.

Also, my ISO on you revealed something else that's very interesting. Your entire case on me seems tob e the result of you appeasing him.

[Grimgroove]

Grimgroove - Also getting a slight town read from your posts.

They are logical and concise.

Spoiler: Grim

post 35

I agree with the point about choosing vengeful roles but disagree with the part that vengeful townie is useless. It is in my eyes a very useful roles due to the win condition for a townie... you need to remove the scum and if you were to be lynched you could take one scum person out with you.

[url-http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 8#p5053248]post 36[/url]

drunk posting is townish? really?

post 38, post 47 and post 50 Could you go over your reasons against ETL again thanks

post 55 this is a bit out of the blue... its a bit late for RVS. slight hint of scummyness

post 88 In post 59 CDog suggests if another 1 shot vig was drawn they'd be confirmed town, he could be breadcrumbing that he is a town 1 shot vig. However I dont see how the discard would point to CDog not being scum.

post 106 Nothing more to say? come on grim don't be so lazy.

yeah so Grim is leaning scum for me at the moment.

Leaving aside the fact that the content of his comments don't match up with his udden scumlean on me, he suddenly seems to think my posts before 39 (35, 36, 38) are no longer logical and consice. Does not compute.

I have ISO'd grim already, I'll have a look at Mac in a bit... just watching a film

This quote in itself shows how he orients his entire game around Trollie's "reads".

[Grimgroove]

honestly I didn't like how quick grim was on to mac's role claim looking to make it out to be scum.

vs.

This really is the least important semantic argument we could possibly be having so let's stop.

lol yeah.
Tbh I'm still suspicious of Grim but I dont really find Macs reveal very convincing...

You're all over the place Guyett.

@CBD: We're done talking.

[Grimgroove]

Still think Grim is scum, partly because of how it's

killing

him that I won't engage with him on his terms about my read.

Actually, no, we're not done.
There is no way to "engage" on your terms. That's the whole problem. And yes, it's killing me. How does that make me scum?

[Cheery Dog]

stop getting so pissy when I don't believe you mate.
you voted without a reason and then posted reasons later... how do I know that you did have those thoughts all along? should I take your claim at face value? There is no proof that you did have those thoughts before as you didn't post them.

Why does it actually matter about when he had whichever thoughts? They're down in a post now, so therefore they are his thoughts at present, which is what we're playing in.

[Guyett]

well I might have been buddying to trollie lately as some of his reads match my own... that being said I am not basing my game on his reads. I had grim iso'd as I thought he was suspicious already and I Iso'd Mac to see if my reads were close to his. However some of the earlier examples you pulled up are merely me being polite to people.
I was not double checking to make sure I was still his buddy... more checking what people he was talking about, nice of you to twist it to suit your argument.

[Guyett]

stop getting so pissy when I don't believe you mate.
you voted without a reason and then posted reasons later... how do I know that you did have those thoughts all along? should I take your claim at face value? There is no proof that you did have those thoughts before as you didn't post them.

Why does it actually matter about when he had whichever thoughts? They're down in a post now, so therefore they are his thoughts at present, which is what we're playing in.

I understand that now, his vote without reason was pinging my scumdar but I may have been tunnelling on that

[Grimgroove]

Yes, appease your way through Day 1.

[Guyett]

honestly I didn't like how quick grim was on to mac's role claim looking to make it out to be scum.

vs.

This really is the least important semantic argument we could possibly be having so let's stop.

lol yeah.
Tbh I'm still suspicious of Grim but I dont really find Macs reveal very convincing...

You're all over the place Guyett.

@CBD: We're done talking.

I don't find it too convincing grim, but I did say it was possible in an earlier post... possible but the probability is quite slim. However your sudden claim of him being alien seemed very forced.

[ChannelDelibird]

Grimgroove, I'd just like to say that I'm in a bit of a bad mood today because of some stuff not to do with this game and I hope my approach isn't being affected by that. I think you're scum, but I don't want to just wind you up for the sake of it. I just don't think that engaging you in the way that you want will help because of, well, I've already explained what I think you're doing. That might not be a way to get everyone else to agree with me and jump on as well but it seems like you're getting pretty close without me doing that anyway. I may come back with a post for everyone else summarising my thoughts more clearly at some point soon but I think I may need to disconnect from things for a day or something to do that without turning this into some sort of weird sniping match.

[Guyett]

@CDB hope you're ok bud, rl issues can be bad

[ChannelDelibird]

Nah it's nothing serious (not even a RL issue really), just grumpy.

[Grimgroove]

I never sniped you, I just questioned your read.

The support for a lynch on me has taken me by surprise, I must say. It's difficult not to get into OMGUS but seriously, of the four people voting me you seem to be the only one with sincere reasons. But their sincereity is their only absolving characteristic.

And Trollie, I can't even begin talking to him. I tried, I failed. Don't know how anyone will be able to get a read off of him if he keeps that up. He had his opinion ready on me ever since he saw my discard and that was that.

[ChannelDelibird]

Sorry - I wasn't accusing you of sniping. I felt like I was about to if I carried on right then and there.

I've played with Trollie a few times - mostly face-to-face and over Skype, so slightly different but it helps inform forum play more than the other way around - and I think he's town for the moment. At this point I don't think there's a need to do more than just ask people to trust me on that.

[ChannelDelibird]

I mean, obviously, Grim, you're not putting on an entire playstyle for this game because you drew scum. I accept that part of this is just how you play. But I think that, within that, there are signs that you are being reserved and playing safe. I think your scumread on Mac is genuine enough but that doesn't affect anything.