Mafia 60: Face-to-Face - Game over!

[Mgm]

I'm not going to say anything about IH's play before checking his posts.

As for the quote. I don't say the bandwagoners made themeselves into eassy targets. That would imply the wrong causal relationship. I'm saying they're not opportunistic for bandwagoning, but that the people attacking them for their bandwagoning are the opportunistic scum.

[Thesp]

The initial attack on AndrewS was that a no-lynch would hurt the town. It's been pointed out that a no-lynch wouldn't actually happen.

I think you are missing the whole point of the argument, as this is entirely mis-stated.

The question is not, "Could this affect the lynch for the day?", it's "Why is he voting No Lynch?" His motivations are not necessarily equivalent with the expected outcome.

[spectrumvoid]

Thesp, you've pretty much worded my feelings better than I could myself, but just in case someone wants to hear it.

AndrewS and Glork made a bad suggestion. Whether they meant it is irrelevant. Suggesting it is scummy, following through on it by making the vote is scummier.

*nods*

Then again,

When I'm lynched and turn up town, you all might want to do some serious reconsideration of a few people.

= Emo scum-tell.

Apologies, I've been sick.

unvote

Sigh.

[spectrumvoid]

Oh, and thanks for the link. And I never thought Glork was serious.

[Patrick]

That's quite a change of tune from your last post.

[AndrewS]

Thesp: You have a problem in your logic: You assume that my intentions follow my vote, and that I intended for the town to go no lynch. I did not. I did want to see reactions. As such, we have more information now than we would have normally for a day 1 lynch. It won't be

entirely

random. That was my goal, really. But, no, I never truly intended the town to go no lynch.

[Mgm]

And how is voting no lynch better to get information than a vote on a player?

[Fritzler]

why is scumvoid still alive?

why didn't i get to drop the mjonlir?

will i ever get to?

all this, and more to be answered

[Thesp]

Thesp: You have a problem in your logic: You assume that my intentions follow my vote, and that I intended for the town to go no lynch.

No. I am not assuming your intentions, I am making an excellent educated guess as to whatthey were based on your actions. I'm fairly explicit in stating that I do not care whether you intended the town to go no lynch, and believe its more likely you wouldn't think it would go no lynch whether you are town or scum. I think lynching you will be the only way to stop you fom continuing to spew crap.

Why aren't more people voting for AndrewS?

[Mgm]

Glork doing the same when he knew it was a stupid move is scummier.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

But Glrok was just joking.

[Glork]

Glork doing the same when he knew it was a stupid move is scummier.

So what you're saying is that I, knowing that AndrewS picked up flak for voting No Lynch, and even participating in the ensuing bandwagon on him, decided to vote No-Lynch for some ulterior motive (presumably to push through this day without a lynch)?


Yeah. Right.

[AndrewS]

Thesp, I could say the same about you. If I was scum, and I knew that I wouldn't be able to convince town to go no lynch, what would I profit from suggesting it? If you accept the fact that I did not expect the town to go no lynch, you must logically assume that I had another reason for voting it. What do you suppose that reason was? Saying it is because I am mafia makes no sense, because if I do not expect the town to go no lynch, and it does not, it merely makes me a target. Saying it was to attract attention to myself then clear myself is absolutely ludicrous. There is no defensible way that you can say that you thought that I didn't believe the town would go no lynch yet am still mafia.

[AndrewS]

Oh, and on a side note...

Unvote, Vote: MGM

Read the game. As it is, you're not making any sense whatsoever.

[Mgm]

You voted. Why don't you tell us why you did it?

[AndrewS]

I already told you!

Read the game!

My reasons for my initial no lynch vote are outlined there.

[Mgm]

Thesp: You have a problem in your logic: You assume that my intentions follow my vote, and that I intended for the town to go no lynch. I did not. I did want to see reactions. As such, we have more information now than we would have normally for a day 1 lynch. It won't be

entirely

random. That was my goal, really. But, no, I never truly intended the town to go no lynch.

And how is voting no lynch better to get information than a vote on a player?

[IH]

Ether. Why are you defending him so much. I know this is an invitational. Just because a nolynch didn't happen, and he CLAIMS that it was just to stir up conversation.....

I mean seriously. He then defended it with "I mean, if I was scum, and knew it was so scummy, why would I do it?"

Seriously. Then when it kind of dissolves for no reason, and I ask why, I'm voted upon because I'm "Opportunistic scum who isn't curious".

I seriously don't see how the speed of the bandwagon makes Andrew town... I repeat my logic for it.

This is invitational only.
You would assume that would mean better teams of scum and town.
You would also assume town would pick up on things more.
A scumtell appears.
Town jumps on it.
Town jumps off of it for it going to fast.

._. anyone see what I'm saying?

igmeoy:Thesp

... Even though you're strongly supporting an Andrew lynch, I don't like how you're kind of... turning it into something else.

I still maintain that with this being invitational only, Andrew didn't know how a nolynch suggestion would go. I mostly believe this because of the scummy defense which... doesn't look to good for him.

igmeoy:MGM

Dude. Seriously.

[Patrick]

I still maintain that with this being invitational only,

Andrew didn't know how a nolynch suggestion would go.

I mostly believe this because of the scummy defense which... doesn't look to good for him.

I suppose this is where the disagreement appears.

I will say that I haven't cared much for some of the reasons and justifications he has provided, but I don't particularly feel like lynching him right now, and am quite happy to look at ppl on his wagon.

Mind going into more detail on your comment about MGM?

[AndrewS]

Mgm: Voting no lynch is something spectacular that everybody would notice. Voting a player without any logical reasoning is more akin to a random vote, which is day 1 norm. Day 1 lynches are generally randomish due to scant lack of evidence. Day 1 lynches are almost always randomish when a game is full of experienced and non-idiot players. I wanted to avoid that.

[Nightfall]

Day 1 lynches are almost always randomish when a game is full of experienced and non-idiot players. I wanted to avoid that.

So you created the belief that you were pro no lynch?.... So? How does that help us? All that did was bring up a huge number of WIFOM issues which truely could go either way.

unvote, Vote: Ether

for as mentioned a few posts above, she seems a little too attached to Andrew with an aparant view that he cant really do wrong.

FOS: AndrewS

I just really dont trust you. I think more of Thesp's points are correct where yours are flawed, and your spewing scum tells galore. I dont care the least little bit that this is an invitational, if I was scum I would likely be going about it in much the same way you are, claiming that all of us are too experienced to do something like that and therefore you cant possibly be scum.

[Glork]

igmeoy:Thesp

FoS: IH

[Thesp]

If I was scum, and I knew that I wouldn't be able to convince town to go no lynch, what would I profit from suggesting it? If you accept the fact that I did not expect the town to go no lynch, you must logically assume that I had another reason for voting it. What do you suppose that reason was?

I suspect you might have thought it would allow you to look helpful, and turn the town into meaningless discussions about no-lynch D1 rather than scum-hunting. It's also perfectly logical and rational to claim that I don't know why scum perform

X

more often than town do, and still assert that my experience is that scum more often do

X

than town do. Once again, your attack fails a basic logic class.

There is no defensible way that you can say that you thought that I didn't believe the town would go no lynch yet am still mafia.

You say this, but still scum seem to do that. Perhaps you can tell me why this is after the game.

unvote, Vote: Ether for as mentioned a few posts above, she seems a little too attached to Andrew with an aparant view that he cant really do wrong.

This will definitely be worth looking at tomorrow. Why are you deflecting the AndrewS lynch? If you're scum, it would be very nice for you to follow ChannelDelibird's lead and bus your partner.

[Nightfall]

unvote, Vote: Ether for as mentioned a few posts above, she seems a little too attached to Andrew with an aparant view that he cant really do wrong.

This will definitely be worth looking at tomorrow. Why are you deflecting the AndrewS lynch? If you're scum, it would be very nice for you to follow ChannelDelibird's lead and bus your partner.

This will definitely be worth looking at tomorrow. Why are you comming after me so suddenly; someone who actually believes that Andrew is acting scummy, and all the while not addressing the other people who think he's clean?

[Patrick]

Mod

whenever you get back can you prod MBL for us please?
I agree with what Thesp said about Nightfalls last post. I could see a link between the two of them because Nightfall attacks him on several points then only FoSes him, then votes Ether. Misrepresents her too. Looking at Ether's last post I didn't get the vibe of "AndrewS can do no wrong".