Mini 403: 101 MPH Mafia - Game Over

[Jack]

Vote:pablito

[Jack]

Just don't hammer yourself.

[Jack]

hmm ok

Unvote, Vote:scotmany12

for asking "why" about random votes.

[Jack]

*checks registration date*

unvote

It's hard to come up with anything when 7 people still haven't posted.

[Jack]

What's the point of arbitrarily balancing the field out?

[Jack]

vote Jack:

Because I dont know Jack

haha, I like the double meaning there.

Well, if several people have a few votes, we can react more effectively to new information than if only one person has a few. I guess I'm taking the verbose attitude to this: there should be about 3-ish "nominated" (ie at high risk) individuals so that we can react to info quickly (I mean, what if the cop claims half an hour before the deadline?) but the scum can't string up one individual suddenly without it being highly noticable.

Hmm I see. If we keep a couple people tied, at deadline one will be chosen randomly. If we have a scum on there the other scum will have to decide whether to try and get their guy off at the risk of looking suspicious. Sounds good.

[Jack]

I think I do see a problem with Adele's plan now. It's much too easy for scum to vote townies "to even it up" without giving too much reason.

I've played a bunch of 24-hour day games, and you really do have to post like mad to get anything done.

I'll

Vote:Adele

on the basis that her plan could be helpful to scum.


Don't agree with Pablito's distrust of OMG's initial comment, in seems to be how he plays for the most part. The others who aren't commenting much I don't see as suspicious, just not prepared for a fast game.

[Jack]

4-way!

Of course then I could move my vote to you or shamrock. Not sure what the point of pointing that out is.

[Jack]

[Jack]

Hmm, I still don't agree with Adele's plan. There tends to naturally be a split wagon, and if one person is way ahead it's because they are more suspicious. I see no reason to alter that.

Not convinced supporting that plan is scummy though so I'll

unvote

Vote:Ectomancer

I got a scummy vibe from that post. A lot of justification, but he mostly seems to be echoing what has been said before. The thing is, Adele has explained herself now and the scummy plan = scummy planner connection is much weaker.

[Jack]

Don't agree with Pablito's distrust of OMG's initial comment, in seems to be how he plays for the most part. The others who aren't commenting much I don't see as suspicious, just not prepared for a fast game.

mild FOS: Jack. i dont see how anyone could have any read on me whatsoever given what ive posted so far. the only people that know im pro-town rite now are scum.

please explain how that joke was 'just how i play'?

I don't have any read on you, that's the point. I didn't find the one post scummy and mentioned it.

[Jack]

Hmm, I still don't agree with Adele's plan. There tends to naturally be a split wagon, and if one person is way ahead it's because they are more suspicious. I see no reason to alter that.

Not convinced supporting that plan is scummy though so I'll

unvote

Vote:Ectomancer

I got a scummy vibe from that post. A lot of justification, but he mostly seems to be echoing what has been said before. The thing is, Adele has explained herself now and the scummy plan = scummy planner connection is much weaker.

Yes the connection is much weaker. I guess I didnt relate the irony of the situation well enough to you. In order to create a front runner in the voting and oppose Adele's plan, I had to vote for the person with the most votes (but not too many). It happened to be Adele. Hence, my final statement.

Why did you want to arbitrarily create a front runner? That has the same problems as Adele's plan. Scum can vote for someone who's tied with their partner with part of the justification being "we need a front runner".

[Jack]

this is so insanely wrong its not even funny.

lynch can come at ANY time.

if i am on 3 votes and someone else is on 3 votes i am auto-changing my vote to them. why? because i know i am town therefore by saving myself i am saving a townie.

the fact that you dont have this mindset already makes me suspicious of you patrick; particularly when you are using this fuzzy logic to push the wagon of someone who is a likely lynch candidate for today.

I say it because I've only seem scum do it. I'm sure townies have done it too, but it's an argument I've seen from and even used myself as scum. I also remember one of the scumbags from the last game doing that exact same thing. Lynch can in theory come at any time, but after what less than 2 days? No. I would be seriously annoyed with any mod who gave us that fast a deadline. That would be completely stupid.

The fact that you're saying I'm 'pushing the wagon of a likely lynch candidate for today' is wrong; I'm voting for Estomancer, not bandwagoning against Adele. Being suspicious of me for not having the mindset you describe is also ridiculous - scum would certainly have survival at the forefront of there minds.

Hmm, how short were the days in the last 100 mph game? Unless they were 2 days that could be scummy. I would unvote and vote for the other person if I felt a risk of deadline (unless I was sure they were town).

[Jack]

I'm usually voting the person I most suspect, unless the other people think he's innocent and are voting my 2nd suspect. I think we just do that and talk a lot more. Don't see a need for a special strategy.

Adele I believe you're in the lead with 4 to a couple other peoples 2.

[Jack]

jack - im not buying that. you said that it 'fitted my play' and now you are brushing it off.

Just because I say one comment fits someone's play doesn't mean I have a read on them.

[Jack]

Kenji, sounds like you want to discourage discourage discussion and support no lynch? In god's name why?

[Jack]

[
you misunderstand. both parties would act the same in VOTING TO SURVIVE as adele did. im not making a general statement for the whole game. you have still failed to respond.

why would townies not vote to survive as adele did?

If you really have no idea who the other person is, they could just as likely have a pro town role as be scum. I do find this thinking kind of scummy, voting to save yourself isn't something you do

unless

you think the other person might not be town. Scum are the only ones who gladly want the other person lynched.

[Jack]

You put your survival over a town win?

[Jack]

EBWOP: that was @omg

[Jack]

I really think Ectomancer should have the most votes, not Adele.

[Jack]

I think that question equates with someone asking "why random bandwagons?" And no, it doesnt have the same problems as Adele's plan. The random end of the day leaves too much in the air when it comes down to determining whether peoples actions were malicious, or bad luck and timing when there are several people tied for the lynch. It's not a good situation for the town. We want the most suspicious person in front.
I also reject your "arbitrary" labeling of my vote. Adele was already the front leader when I added my vote. Her plan was scummy to me, leading me to feel she is

the most suspicious.

If she had not been, then I would have needed to look for the most suspicious of the top votes.

That's not what you said though:

So, to avoid a plan that seems to benefit scum more to me, and in the same stroke put a vote on the creator of that plan: Vote:Adele

...

In order to create a front runner in the voting and oppose Adele's plan, I had to vote for the person with the most votes (but not too many). It happened to be Adele. Hence, my final statement.

In fact you said pretty much the opposite--it "happened" to be Adele. Why do you have to look for the most suspicious "among the top votes"? You should look for the most suspicious period, and make an effort to get other peoples votes on them.

I really think Ectomancer should have the most votes, not Adele.

You really seem to be inserting yourself in a protector role for Adele dont you?

No

[Jack]

I make it:

Ectomancer - 3(Jack, patrick,pablito)

Pablito - 2 (Riverwind,kenji)
riverwind - 2 (omg, scotmany)
Adele - 1 ( Ectomancer)
Shamrock - 1 ( Patrick)
Jack - 1 ( HemisphereDancer)

Everyone just put the count in their post after every vote.

[Jack]

Finger of Suspicion.

[Jack]

Post 50: He disagrees with Adele's plan (repeating complaints others had had) and votes her. I had voted for her in the past, but her reply had removed most of my concerns. He makes no case for bad plan = scum. His justification seems scummy to me.

Post 51: I call him on this.

Post 52: He agrees that the case is weaker with her follow up posts, but says:

In order to create a front runner in the voting and oppose Adele's plan, I had to vote for the person with the most votes (but not too many). It happened to be Adele.

Post 64: I ask him why he wants to arbitrarily create a front runner.

Post 86: He denies this claims that:

Her plan was scummy to me, leading me to feel she is the most suspicious.

and accuses me of trying to protect her. This is a direct contradiction of his previous post where he "had to vote for the person with most votes" and it "happened to be Adele".

So essentially:

He makes a scummy vote putting someone out in the lead
When called on it he tries to get out of it, but contradicts himself
accuses his accuser

[Jack]

like ive said already, i only ever have my well being in mind. thats just how i play. by keeping myself alive i am protecting a 100% villager. i play like this as good or evil, just check my other games (ogre village mafia in particular) and you will see this.

You hammered yourself in the last game I was in with you.

[Jack]

^^her last post doesn't really comment on the game either.

I was ok with Adele before. Her justification was alright. But now I am a bit suspicious of her when I read all her posts so far in this game. She has commented mostly on making a plan of some sort, and not so much about suspicions. In particular her last post was made at a time when there was some debate going on, but she didn't really comment on it. Sometimes it is easy for scum to slip by commenting on general strategy. IGMEOY

omg, I feel it will help us more to lynch scum than inactives. Shamrock and scotmany have hardly posted either, why riverwind?

[Jack]

If this were fencing, which of course verbally it is, I would say that Jack has certainly scored more points. I doubt that I am as skilled or experienced.
I dont know that I can do a quote by quote rebuttal that would satisfy. A chain of events from my perspective would do better.

It's early in a game that we need to be fast. I dont see much suspicious until Adele posts a plan of action. She is bashed for it enough that she becomes front runner by 1, with 2 tied 1 vote behind. I look at the plan and agree that it would benefit scum more than town. The plan itself called for an even number across a few players making it easier to move in a short time span. As I pointed out, scum have more information on players and are not making blind adjustments, giving them an advantage.
So I take a look at the votes and it "so happened" that Adele was the leader by 1, with my vote putting her ahead and out of the virtual tie with the other 2 players. Done deal, plan benefits scum and she gets put out in front to break it up.
No further thought on the matter. I dont need to figure out what I would have done had she not been front runner.
Jack, you wanted to know what I would have done had Adele not been front runner. But then you use my responses to what I

did

do when she

is

the front runner to claim I contradict myself.

I still say voting someone just to make sure there's a front runner is a scummy play. What are your suspicions currently?

[Jack]

hmmm I'm going to

Unvote, Vote:Adele

Ectomancer's explanation makes sense now, and Adele came by to post but didn't offer anything. Also, part of why I considered ecto's vote scummy is that he was putting Adele out ahead which could be helping a scum partner. But rereading I see that Adele was tied with me :p

Ectomancer - 2(patrick,pablito)
riverwind - 2 (omg, scotmany)
Adele - 2 ( Ectomancer,Jack)

Pablito - 1 (kenji)

[Jack]

scotmany started his first post (in a while) by first accusing me, suggesting i was scummy, and then the second half of his post says he agrees with what i said and follows my accusation. that makes no sense, a scum player faking it would not risk such a thing. to me it sounds like a protown player just rapid posting his current thoughts. therefore i have a protown tell on him

This is rather wifom. But I do agree he sounds pro-townish. He only has 4 posts but they are thinking posts.

None of shamrocks posts give indications of him looking for scum.


Hemisphere dancer, 2 posts, no trying to find scum. I don't know why she says she doesn't want to claim not-scum, seems a weird think to say.

Kenji, 2 posts, very poor strategy suggestions.

Riverwind, I think is less suspicious than the other lurkers, simply because he is not trying to hide the fact that he is adding nothing.


That "sort by who's posted feature" sure is useful

[Jack]

Ectomancer's explanation makes sense now

its posts like this that make me suspect you so strongly jack.

honestly, there is no way that it happened as ecto said in that post, he simply didnt put that much thought in to it. this doesnt say he is scummy, he could easily be a protown just trying to get you off his back because its good for the town....

i find this even more suss that you post this just after ive stated that i think the you v ecto argument is a scum v town one

I don't pay attention to what you think would be scummy when I vote or unvote.

I think he explained himself quite well. The fact that he would put her out in front was a bonus

in addition

to voting her because her plan was scummy. He was voting her to create a front runner, but she was also suspicious.

[Jack]

Hemisphere dancer, 2 posts, no trying to find scum. I don't know why she says she doesn't want to claim not-scum, seems a weird think to say.

Mm, not quite so weird when you consider that I wasn't in danger of being lynched nor was I a target of any suspicion. It was what, page... 3 or so? Kinda early for a claim. Besides, claiming vanilla would give the scum a confirmed vanilla, and claiming a pro-town powerole would make me a target for both a lynch and a nightkill if the lynch didn't go though. And claiming scum is just stupid.

I only actually brought it up so I wouldn't be avoiding the fact that I was called lurking scum. Even though I knew it was in jest.

I'm also not really saying much because I'm watching and seeing how things play out. But if you want some input from me...

I think it weird to not say you are working for the town. In this game, everyone either is working for the town or is pretending to be. You can say "town" without saying vanilla/role.

[quote="HD"omg, honestly, stands out as scummy to me, if only for his "me first" philosophy. Unless we get a cop confirm on his innocence- and I doubt the cop would claim for THAT- then we have no way of telling if he honestly IS 100% town like he claims. And a from-the-start townie claim is suspicious. Jumping the gun, pretty much.

I don't know about the odds behind it, but I like Adele's idea. That way the people we find most suspicious have a better chance of getting lynched, even if it random after that.

....I just realized it took me upwards of 30 minutes between starting this post and finishing it. xD[/quote]

I don't understand you point at omg. No one is 100% confirmable town, except confirmed people and the confirmed cops who've confirmed them. And some other weird cases.

Also, he said he was townie: ie not mafia. That's not jumping any guns, he said that while explaining his voting to save self position.

You sound a bit like you are afraid saying "I'm pro-town" or "I'm not scum" will make people suspect you? Why is that?

[Jack]

It seems I was able to relay my thought process in a more coherent manner, but events since then have me wondering about motivations.
I can understand omg's reasoning for putting a vote on Adele. Jack I dont quite understand, unless he was still always suspicious of Adele and was finally convinced his original hunch was correct.

I originally found her a little suspicious, but it's mainly her making an easy post without adding anything. I don't have any strong suspicions at this point.

[Jack]

Unvote

I don't get a scumvibe from that post.

[Jack]

I'm going to

Vote:Hemisphere Dancer

For weirdness that I'd like explained.

[Jack]

I think it weird to not say you are working for the town. In this game, everyone either is working for the town or is pretending to be. You can say "town" without saying vanilla/role.

Yes, but anyone would say town. So what's the point? It doesn't prove guilt or innocence. I'd rather say "no comment" and know myself than verify as vanilla, powerole, or scum. I said why in my last post. *nod*

I don't understand you point at omg. No one is 100% confirmable town, except confirmed people and the confirmed cops who've confirmed them. And some other weird cases.

Also, he said he was townie: ie not mafia. That's not jumping any guns, he said that while explaining his voting to save self position.

He's claiming that he wants to save himself because he knows he is 100% town.

Oh, wait. I think we're seeing the same thing from different angles on this. xD I figure that arbitrarily claiming town while justifying a vote- on Day 1 no less- is scummier than, say, claiming town while trying to defend yourself from a lynch.

Or am I not making any sense? I might be reading your comment wrong. :/

Everyone is 100% town

It's not suspicious to say so. Do you still think he's suspicious for saying that?

I'm going to go read a game where omg is scum.

[Jack]

Pablito you still left omg in the lead.

Unvote, Vote:riverwind

no a temporary basis.

omg, why do you say that pablito know you were a power role?

[Jack]

I think he meant his morning, as in, he's going to bed.

[Jack]

Unvote,Vote:Hemisphere Dancer

I prefer this to reverwind.

omg, I think claiming was a bad move, especially considering that the mod basically told us the game wasn't ending for at least 8 hours or so.

[Jack]

Yamahako, both scum and actual doctor will only claim as a last resort. The real doc will get killed, and the scum will get counterclaimed or lynched. If he's scum we'll figure it out. Meanwhile, it's better to try and make a lynch and have the mafia kill him.

[Jack]

I don't think either yamahako or ectomancer are scum. Why are they in the lead exactly?

[Jack]

Unvote, Vote:scotmany12

I feel that is a weak point. Yamahako was willing to risk killing off a

claimed

doctor. And it isn't a horrible play to do so, it's just not the best option. That's not a good "sole reason" to vote someone, but it is a very easy reason to vote someone.

[Jack]

"I know I'm town, I know what my role is, I am 100% certain that if I'm lynched then we will lose a townie. "

Claim then.

Yes, this is brilliant, let's get as many power roles out as we can. He said "townie" right there btw.

[Jack]

Unvote,Vote:Kenji

[Jack]

Yamahako, why did you claim "not basic townie" without saying anything furthur? I've never liked that kind of claim, it's a kind of "don't lynch me I have a power role" without opening yourself up for counterclaim.

[Jack]

Right, why are people still voting for Yamahako?

It would be quite ironic if it was because he suggested lynching a power role.

[Jack]

I found post 250 to be disgusting. This is supposed to be mafia, not "hey guys let's post random facts about our role pm's to confirm our innocence". I'll take no part in that shit.

My vote on Kenji stays because he says townie while yamahako says power role.

[Jack]

I was under the impression it was still between yamahako and kenji.

unvote

[Jack]

You haven't done much, you were just the alternative to the claimed power roles.

[Jack]

Can't say I'm surprised by the riverwind result.

[Jack]

OMG didn't die.

[Jack]

If ectomancer turns up scum I think we know why omg didn't die last night

What does this mean?


It's interesting that we had two claimed power roles and neither of them died.


Why are you voting ectomancer pablito?

[Jack]

I have found Ecto to have acted opportunistically and it's more of a gut feeling actually. Just the way he discusses things.

You said yesterday that you were happy with the riverwind lynch. What has changed since then?


Yamahako seems to be considering claiming, who thinks that is a good idea?

[Jack]

I have to wonder why yamahako is still acting like you might be guilty.

[Jack]

If there's a deputy I may as well. I got a guilty on pablito.

Vote:pablito

We only have 2 more investigations though.

Seems like an easy victory, kind of lame.

[Jack]

My role pm says sane.

I was confident about pablito. If you noticed he started the round really pro town getting everyone talking but eventually kept going after ecto and just sat and watched riverwind get lynched with barely a comment. Clear sign of faked pro-towness.

Yamahako meant that if I don't announce my investigation it makes it harder for the mafia.

[Jack]

Although actually, I really doubt they would bother to kill who I investigated, with omg and yama still around.

[Jack]

Pablito was on when I posted my claim. He responds hours later->he had to think of a plan.

My original plan for today was to try and talk to pablito and get a better sense of his partner, and maybe lynch him without claiming. If I had come out and voted pablito he'd know I had a guilty on him and wouldn't reveal anything.

It's generally a bad idea for cops to leave clues in their posts indicating their role, they don't want to be found out. It's also very easy for scum to fake that. I've done it as scum.

OMG makes a strong point here, if you believe pablito, two scum are identified and the game is won for the town, guaranteed. Lynching pablito is win win, you either lynch one scum or find two scum.

[Jack]

I was much more interested in pablito. We'll find out about omg soon enough. The mafia pretty much have to kill him.

[Jack]

Vote: Adele

<---Guilty

[Jack]

...I got a guilty result on her.

[Jack]

There were only 2 in 100 mph mafia. My impression was that the rest of you were innocent. I don't see HD's play as scummy, she got burned by a scum claiming cop in her last game.

[Jack]

role pm specified sane

If pab and I were scum then I would be revealed upon your lynch, town win.


This game confirms my suspicion that cops are lame. Last 2 days have been kind of flat.

[Jack]

We can't hammer in this game, just have to wait until the time runs out.

100 mph mafia had 2 scum, a cop a doc and a roleblocker. The mafia won easily, I doubt Arafax added a mafioso.

[Jack]

You had your plan from day one which I forgave you for. Then day two you tried to get me to investigate omg, very scummy, and had a little bit of distancing with pablito. I looked up another game you were in and you were much more aggressive as town.

[Jack]

Ahaha I'm wicked confused. I take it there's still scum left? I got innocent on m4yhem so I'm betting it's scotmany.

Vote:scotmany

[Jack]

unvote

I should consider godfather possibility first.

Roleblocker seems likely.

[Jack]

ehh, I was going to write a long speculation post but we may as well see if a roleblocker shows up and tells us who scum is

[Jack]

umm I wouldn't count on m4yem, I'm thinking godfather is a distinct possibility (this option also pleases my ego :p). You're next on my list.

Now, 100 mph mafia had 2 scum, a doc, a cop and a roleblocker. Someone suggested changing the roleblocker to a deputy. Now apparently we have three scum, so I'm guessing Arafax decided to up the townie roles a bit. I don't see any explanation for lack of kill last night than roleblocker. If there was a 2nd doc omg wouldn't have died.

I'm thinking the roleblocker will claim and we win.

[Jack]

hmm I'll tie things up for now. I don't like m4yhem's vote for scotmany without waiting to see if a roleblocker shows up.

Vote:M4yhem

[Jack]

unvote,Vote:scotmany

That really doesn't sound good. If there is a roleblocker then they know who the scum is. You also provide no reason, but put m4yhem in the lead in a game with short days.

[Jack]

ebwop: I'd like it if we kept these two within one vote of each other though.

[Jack]

Oh I see. A nurse for backup doc. Makes sense. Also guarantees maximum number of investigations.

I still don't like scotmany's vote on mayem. Willing to put him in front for now. Want to hear more from both of them though.

[Jack]

You didn't vote for pablito, and you said you believed his reveal when it looked like he might pull it off. You were on the riverwind lynch. This sounds like "I forgot the cop, if I was scum i wouldn't forget the cop:"

Totally forgot you were cop. Sorry bout that.

And this sounds like "see guys I can't be scum I thought there were 2 mafia:"

How many scum do we think there is? If there is only two, then once we kill adele the game should be over, right?

Also, why should we disregard your vote for mayhem?

[Jack]

I honestly think the last scum is either HD or m4yhem.

That is why I feel confident in my vote.

Vote: Ectomancer

Say what?


Your first post today had m4yhem as innocent. Then I said maybe he wasn't, and you voted him into the lead. Now you think he's innocent?

[Jack]

That's especially significant given the mafia's decision not to kill omg.

And scot, pablito and adele didn't really go after eachother hard. They did go after omg hard. So why does pablitos going after ecto make ecto guilty?

[Jack]

I don't think the mafia would choose no kill. I'm confirmed cop, yamahako is not confirmed deputy--they could argue against him.

HD, what did you mean with the scum claiming doc part in Ecto's description?

[Jack]

ok.

unvote

I think claiming is actually worthwhile. We still have 2 investigations and we have another confirmed innocent.

Vote:M4yhem

put your vote back on m4 for now scot, don't want to leave you in the lead.

[Jack]

So we have:

Jack:confirmed cop
Yamahako:deputy
scotmany: nurse

Kenji: vanilla townie pm thing
HD: doesn't ping scumdar
Ecto: An early suspect of mine, but his explanation made sense and his posts aren't scummy. Interaction with pablito, but pablito didn't hop off when he easily could have and started right off on him day 2. Would make ecto scummy, but I don't think pab was prepared for cop claim, it took him too long to come up with a counterclaim.
M4yhem: I think he's the godfather

[Jack]

Good. still 50/50 though, if any of you others stop by put m4 in the lead.

I don't think my investigations are much use anymore. The cop, after claiming, gets 3 guaranteed investigations assuming that all the other power roles are revealed. That's really harsh for the mafia. There basically has to be a godfather. So I don't think the innocent result on m4yhem increases his odds of being innocent.

[Jack]

err I think you missed something yamahako

[Jack]

M4yhem, I think you're scum and find scotmany's claim entirely believable. Not much else to say.

[Jack]

You aren't cleared.

Kenji was confirmed by riverwind.

You're just desperately searching for alternative candidates. If you were town, and especially since you say no godfather, you'd believe our win was almost guaranteed.

[Jack]

Is there anyone who can confirm Kenji's claim that a certain word is in bold in the townie pm?

lollll you just admitted you weren't townie.

[Jack]

I apologize for my hubris induced blindness of yesterday.

Vote:Ectomancer

<--Guilty

[Jack]

Yes you do. But you can't post until end of game.

[Jack]

yeah.

After m4yhem turned up innocent I reread. I had originally figured that omg's survival indicated that pablito et al were confident, and that pab's attempt on ecto was a genuine attempt to achieve his lynch (I'm sure everyone figured day 2 would be short). But on rereading I figured pablito was placing that on the off chance he got investigated. I guess he wasn't so confident after all, or maybe just cautious. Some of ecto's comments yesterday were odd as well.

[Jack]

Nah, there wasn't much point in continuing. Yama's vote would have been hammer in a normal game.

You and pab had some nice distancing. I dropped you as a suspect after you explained your adele vote quite well (was this real or were you backtracking?) and figured pablito's pursuit of you as him seeing you as a possible lynch.

What was your reasoning behind the patrick kill?

My scumdar had help what with the claims and all.

Good game.

[Jack]

woo!

[Jack]

Well, the back up cop wasn't needed, and without either backups we'd have had 2 scum down. Hard to say.

[Jack]

Well, if omg had died I probably wouldn't have claimed, and it's a toss up who would have got lynched seeing how short day 2 was.