Mafia 60: Face-to-Face - Game over!

[ChannelDelibird]

Vote: ChannelDelibird

because I've always wondered what his username meant.

Vote: AndrewS

for suspiciously not reading the Usernames thread in General Discussion.

[ChannelDelibird]

Glrok, a vote for Thesp is a vote for progress!

Wanting to lynch progress is scummy. Surely progress is helpful for the town?

unvote, vote: CES

[ChannelDelibird]

I'm not convinced by that explanation. I also feel that if you feel you learned something from it, telling the town who you feel made a scummy reaction to your post would help your position (if it's justified, of course).

FoS: AndrewS

[ChannelDelibird]

Vote: CES

for being way too talkative.

you prefer lurkers?

[ChannelDelibird]

I'm trying to think who Glork reminds me of in this game (I don't think it's Glork). Whoever he's behaving like I don't think he's being particularly helpful.

I see the WIFOM in AndrewS's posts and I don't like it.

unvote, vote: AndrewS

. I don't care who the other players are, you shouldn't think you can get away with just saying "If I was scum, I wouldn't do that".

[ChannelDelibird]

Stoof - only 5 people are voting for AndrewS. kthx.

- now corrected - Stoofer

[ChannelDelibird]

Apologies for lack of recent posting. Reading up.

[ChannelDelibird]

= | I hate this idea of random lynching. It's next to a nolynch, and I don't like how people are wagoning, because they can't all be scum.

I refuse to be a part of it at this moment.

QFT...

[ChannelDelibird]

We should all have been voting AndrewS in the first place anyway.

[ChannelDelibird]

Glork has been very strange indeed. There's a lot of WIFOM in the issue of whether he'd do it as scum, though. It hardly looks like an unconscious thing.

[ChannelDelibird]

Sorry about lurkage in this game. I promise a nice longish post tomorrow, followed by more subsequent contributions.

[ChannelDelibird]

As promised, here is a longish post, with my thoughts on posts I found relevant on Day 2.

---------------

Mgm's post 449: (more on the subject of Ether quotes) I do find those suspicious but I can't find their location in the thread to put them in proper context. Could you remind me?

Glork's post 464:

That particular vote was me going a little overboard with the ridiculous behavior. I take full responsibility for its apparent scumminess.

If only we could all get away just by saying that. It's just not a justification or a reason for us to not be suspicious of you for it.

Adele's post 477 is good posting, brings up a valid point against Ether.

Thesp's post 509 - I have avoided this for a long time because it started early in the game where I believed it was intended merely to get a reaction from me, but it's good to see you finally actually voting for me rather than just innocently saying "CDB should die" every other post. He still doesn't actually give a reason for it, though, just "I'm leery of CDB".

MBL's post 522 - WTF? I told you I'd give you a longish post with my views, at 10:17 PM in my timezone. That's when I get ready to go to bed, so why you feel that just 2 and a half hours after that you need to say I am trying and failing to become more active is beyond me. Give me a chance to wake up, kthx.

Adele's post 525 - I can't see how you interpreted that as encouraging lurking.

Mgm's post 527 - Yes, my posts are usually shortish, and yes, I lurk a lot, particularly in larger games (which I intend to cut down on playing, with exceptions for games with awesome themes and invitationals).

---------

I'm sure there must be more I can pick up on in today's posts, perhaps I am rushing a little. What I did notice from doing this quick run-through was that Ether looks a bit scummy, although based on her Day 1 posting. Am looking forward to hearing more from her today.

My viewpoints at the moment:

Scummy

Thesp
Ether
Glork

Townish

Patrick
Zindaras

I Can't Get A Read On

CES, as always
Fritzler, as always

[ChannelDelibird]

To answer your point, CDB: I'm not asking you to not be suspicious of me for it, and I certainly don't expect to "get away" with anything. I simply acknowledge that it was scummy. I don't have a response or explanation of it... it is what it is.

Yeah, I figured as much. I don't find your response scummy so much as the initial vote, just felt I had to make it clear that your response didn't do you any good.

Do you have any other reasons to suspect me, or is it the fact that I made one bad vote partway through D1 and didn't try to make up some bullshit excuse?

I also found your general D1 behaviour strange (I was sort of undecided as to whether it was scummy), as I believe I've mentioned before now. I don't often see you make silly/scummy mistakes, so the ones I do see from you I consider important, hence my problem specifically with the vote in question.

[ChannelDelibird]

Another post by CDB attempting to appear more active.

Thesp, you asked why I wasn't voting CDB, which is a bold, somewhat manipulative question for you to ask considering I'm currently voting for you. I caught CDB as scum via a cop investigation in another game but I sat back and watched his play rather than blurt out that I had a result. He was significantly manipulative in that game, and I see him as significantly passive in this game. My read on him is lazy town. My vote's on you because while you're passive as well, your behavior change indicates a desire for self-preservation rather than town preservation. I suppose CDB's does as well, but your D1-D2 shift is stark and inexplicable. His play is consistently slack.

Which game was that? I don't remember off the top of my head...

And I do want to make this clear - I am trying to post more

so that I can play a game of mafia

. I don't like lurking and it's the number 1 thing that annoys me most about my play. You're right, it has more to do with self-preservation, but a specific form. I don't want to get lynched for being a lurker. Eh, I'm not going to on and on about this, but I think you get the idea.

[ChannelDelibird]

I'm still most uncomfortable with ChannelDelibird, particular with his actions D1 (following a townie's bandwagon with support and little other contribution

I admit my play on D1 was bad, but I don't think you can really criticise people for the AndrewS wagon.

and deliberately not reacting to something he knew was to elicit reaction).

You mean I should have gotten defensive and let you wagon me for overreacting?

His D2 play is consistent with how I would expect scum to play had they been lurkish on D2 and trying to make up for it. I am trying to ascertain if it would be consistent with townie play, and I don't feel like it is.

Then how exactly would you expect a townie to play if they had been lurkish on D1 and trying to make up for it on D2?

I feel good with a

vote: Thesp

[ChannelDelibird]

There's not much good material for assessing my scum play, I'm afraid. I've never been great in a finished game as scum (disclaimer: I may or may not be scum in ongoing games, and whether I am playing well or not may or not have anything to do with that), Zindy, so your best bet would be Mini 368: Town of Suspicion (that's the most recent, anyway. I replaced into that, though, so there won't be loads of material).

My longest time to survive as scum (not including replacing into Town of Suspicion) was in Wheel of Time, where I was an SK. That was one of my first games, though, so my technique has improved/changed since then.

-----------

@ Nightfall - thanks, that was a very helpful PBPA. I'd somehow gotten the impression that Fritzler was posting more than he has been...

[ChannelDelibird]

have you really improved it if you haven't been able to beat your record for longest time survived as scum

There aren't many

finished

games as scum that I can talk about. (Disclaimer: I may not be scum in etc.....yada yada yada)

Why would defensiveness be the only other reaction? I can imagine a number of other conceivable reactions which would all be valid. I'm intrigued by your need to avoid reaction entirely.

If I had reacted to your continuous claims that I was scum, my reaction would have been along the lines of "WTF? You're accusing me for no reason". Your 'accusations' looked to me like scum trying to deliberately incite a defensive reaction, so I was pretty sure that if I did react, you'd have pounced on it. Therefore, I ignored it.

This is an excellent question, and one I am not certain I have the answer of. Your response didn't seem to fit that for me.

Yeah, well, excuse me for dismissing this as vague unsubstantiated scumposting.

I still think your silence on D1 while a townie was being run up (which you'd put your vote on early, then did not detract from nor push for) is notable, and I'm surprised no one else is jumping on it.

They're not jumping on it because

you

were

pushing it, with gusto. That's scummier, IMO.

I doubt that CDB is the only one who was silent Day One.

That makes it right, then.

No, but it makes it weird that you're singling me out.

<snip>

Without the struck-through quote, he's answered the question of whether or not he thinks it's a scum tell. I don't think the addition of the struck through sentence, "Some ppl argue that scum are less likely to pay attention, but I'm not sure about that", is accidental - he's trying to add extra suspicion on Mgm. Why bother adding that sentence? He's already made his point.

Don't think for a second that speech is accidental.

Whaaaaaaaat....? I don't agree with this at all. It just reads to me like Patrick thinking aloud, which is something I pick up from him semi-often. I don't see anything wrong with it.

If Thesp is pro-town, Adele and MGM are

so

dying next.

That was way more concrete than anyone can reasonably be sure about. I don't like this post.

[ChannelDelibird]

If Thesp is pro-town, Adele and MGM are

so

dying next.

That was way more concrete than anyone can reasonably be sure about. I don't like this post.

You obviously have no idea what you're talking about.

No, I'm reasonably sure I do.

[ChannelDelibird]

Post within 24 hours.

[ChannelDelibird]

My thoughts on any posts I found important since my last (688):

Mgm's post 691: The 'logic' here is dodgy, much as I agree with Thespvotes.

Adele's post 698: (concering cliques) While I see where you're coming from, I'm not sure how much we can read into it.

Surely

scum wouldn't be so uniform with their votes deliberately, and it's not as if the amount of cliquey people fit the amount of scum, making it not a scumtell as far as I can see.

Ether's post 700: You don't find false-dilemma attacks scummy? O.o

MBL's post 706: In answer to your question, I'm pretty happy with Adele really. I empathise with her early (current?) feeling of difficulty in finding scum, I agreed with her on the AndrewS case but I also see the merit in her Day 2 comments about Ether's position on that. I share her wariness of Glork, although I'd prefer to concentrate on Thesp at the moment. Mgm I don't feel strongly one way or the other on. At times he doesn't seem to have been paying full attention (which he admits at a point), and he voted Thesp 'because his Glork vote wasn't going anywhere', which isn't something I like (I'm firmly of the belief that your vote should be on who you think is the most likely scum), but the first of those is excusable and the second could be just a difference of opinion.

Thesp's post 710:

Why would the only possible reaction be defensive, as you seem to imply here? What was it about my "accusations" that made them appear to be scum trying to incite reactions rather than town trying to get reactions?

I'm saying that I would have been righteously indignant (easily confused with defensive) at baseless accusations such as the ones you were making. I feel they were more likely scum reaction-baiting because you stuck with them so vigourously. Town should not be calling for someone to die so repeatedly and vehemently on such a lack of basis.

Why are scum more likely to be adamant and vocal? My experience has been the opposite, particularly because scum know the particular wagon-victim is town, want to push it along, but don't want to be associated too strongly with it. Your behavior D1 is consistent with this.

"I wouldn't do that as scum" = WIFOM.

Who else was silent on Day 1? Please jumpstart my potentially-faulty memory and help us identify others who were doing as such, so we can question them as well. Otherwise, I would have presume this statement is taking an unsubstantiated cheap shot at me.

Fritzler only made 2 more posts than me on Day 1, and at least half of those were noncontent.

Thesp's post 731: Keeps pushing the obviously wrong Professor Plum bloody knife example on Patrick.

[ChannelDelibird]

Vote: Thesp

Same reasons I had yesterday.

Glork: But no vote?

[ChannelDelibird]

I've just got two minutes this morning so I'll be brief (I'll be able to elaborate when I get back from school), but it would be a

very bad idea

to lynch your last power role.

I'm a roleblocker.

[ChannelDelibird]

N1 I blocked Fritzler. N2 I blocked Thesp, obviously.

I'm sorry if my claim is annoying, but I'm not going to pretend to be vanilla and be LAL'd. I've read through my own posts and I don't see what MBL is on about.

Patrick - In this game in particular, I've found myself reading the thread without posting because of the high standard. I think I'm a bit out of my depth to be honest.

I encourage counterclaims. Once you bloodthirsty buffoons finish lynching me it would be nice to finally find a way to get on to lynching scum.

[ChannelDelibird]

I encourage counterclaims. Once you bloodthirsty buffoons finish lynching me it would be nice to finally find a way to get on to lynching scum.

Of course you would.

Yes, of course I would. That's no more a scum perspective than it is a town perspective.

[ChannelDelibird]

Oh. In that case,

CDB, DON'T EVER POST AGAIN!

Ether, you may continue to post until I decide whether you are scum.

Hi Glork.

Sorry, I've been reading but I'm having a really hard time with this game.

I don't see Mgmscum. I am still confident of Thespscum. Best guess for buddies are Ether and CES/Fritzler.