Kingmaker II-Game Over

[spectrumvoid]

Reading comprehension here people.

Quite a few people BREAK wanted to execute BREAK non-scum. Nowhere did I imply that the people I was talking about were non-scum. By non-scum, I was referring to Yos, and I've explained why (ie, because I thought he was non-scum yesterday. Check my defense of Yos against Glork's attacks yesterday.)

[Mastermind of Sin]

I don't think Glork was under significant pressure to execute scum yesterday.

Also I noticed that quite a few people wanted to execute non-scum

, and Glork could have very well not chosen to execute his 'scum-buddy'. So I'm removing Glork from my list.

How many of these "non-scum" were people pushing on yesterday? And, more importantly, how did you

know

they were "non-scum"?

Yeah I noticed this too.

Okay, even if I buy SV's claim that this was an innocent slip, the argument STILL doesn't make sense. Are you saying anyone who wanted to execute ANYONE OTHER THAN POOKY is suspicious? You can't possibly believe this...

vote SV and MoS

I'm adding MoS (2nd preference) because his latest efforts, though numerous, haven't had a townie feel to them. Usually I'm a sucker for pro-town vibes and people under pressure often convince me that they're not scum. But that hasn't happened for whatever reason.

On the opposite side of things, I'm sold on GLORK and RAFK being town. SV's point is actually correct, other than the unfortunate slip-up.



I'll get to posting more later. I bought my first home last week, so I'm a bit busy...

LoL, that's because I don't particularly care if I make it through this day. I'm doing this out of generosity, so that when I die you know that what I said was made from a protown perspective and can lynch all the scumbags I nabbed for you. No need to get townie feels now, you'll get plenty of townie vibes when the mod announces my death.

[Lowell]

Glork-

Not sure what to tell you about RafK. I do take a lot of input from how people enter games (perhaps too much, but whatever), and something about his first post made me believe he's a protown player.

The biggest thing, I guess, is that I feel he could have pretty safely just laid low until the day was out if he really wanted to play it conservatively, so I'm feeling like the fact that he didn't do that means he probably has nothing to hide. WIFOM okay, but I'm generally much better at picking up townie vibes than scum vibes.

[Glork]

I donno... considering how much attention Mert had gotten yesterday, and the fact that a couple of people still claim to have found him scummy even today, I think RafK was under significant pressure to contribute something; Mert/RafK has this black mark for the rest of the game. And while I'm not entirely convinced that they're deserving of it, Mert's inactivity will not be forgotten.


To LuckayLuck and Pablito:
Could you please re-state or summarize why you still feel Mert is scummy? I think it's only fair that RafK be able to address some of these issues -- even if he cannot get inside Mert's head and explain Mert's actions (or nonactions) perfectly, I think it would be every interesting to hear your cases against him and to see what sort of response he can put together.

[pablito]

Could you please re-state or summarize why you still feel Mert is scummy? I think it's only fair that RafK be able to address some of these issues -- even if he cannot get inside Mert's head and explain Mert's actions (or nonactions) perfectly, I think it would be every interesting to hear your cases against him and to see what sort of response he can put together.

I was just ready to write up my post and all, but then I realized that LL often piggybacks on my arguments because he has previously stated that he trusted me. I think it would be best if LL writes his answer first and I'll post my second. Also, I am curious to see what Mert issues LL decides to address. However, if many people would like me too, I will post mine first. I will admit that RafK can help answer my questions about Mert's actions though. And I could be convinced to unvote if RafK explains himself well.

[Glork]

I can accept that. LuckayLuck, it's all you.

[spectrumvoid]

MoS: Doesn't giving up = scum tell? I don't like this defeatist attitude.

My question again: How do I see posts in isolation after page 1? I want to do a player summary.

[KaleiÐoscøpe]

FYI: I'm not very happy that alot of people are really pusing for a MoS lynch with the information Glork provided. I

do

think his behaviour lately was very pro town and, as I said, don't sense that much scumness in the points Glork provided. I'm also thinking that people aren't voting for him for the actual points anymore, but more because of his "late" reactions lately.

I'm getting the feeling the scum were all to happy with the evidence Glork provided about MoS.

I'm still placing my bets on pablito...

[Mastermind of Sin]

MoS: Doesn't giving up = scum tell? I don't like this defeatist attitude.

My question again: How do I see posts in isolation after page 1? I want to do a player summary.

All the posts are shown on one page when you view in isolation.

LoL, if I'd given up I wouldn't be posting anymore.

Erm, it's looking a little bleak as to when my next content will come. Tomorrow I'm gonna be busy all evening and have classes during the day, and there is a huge roleplaying convention at my Uni on Saturday that I'm going to all day. Maybe something will get done on Sunday depending on homework.

[olio]

That was a good start, MoS. Keep it coming.

Buddying doesn't get more blatant than that.

Trying to desperately find something which isn't there can't possibly get more blatant than that, but somehow I'm sure you can surprise me with your analysis.

[spectrumvoid]

LoL, that's because I don't particularly care if I make it through this day.

And you don't call that giving up?

I see only 1 page of posts, not all the posts.

[Yosarian2]

[quote="KaleiÐoscøpe"]FYI: I'm not very happy that alot of people are really pusing for a MoS lynch with the information Glork provided. I

do

think his behaviour lately was very pro town and, as I said, don't sense that much scumness in the points Glork provided. [/quote]

The way he was defending Pooky yesterday dosn't bother you at all?

[KaleiÐoscøpe]

[quote="Yosarian2"][quote="KaleiÐoscøpe"]FYI: I'm not very happy that alot of people are really pusing for a MoS lynch with the information Glork provided. I

do

think his behaviour lately was very pro town and, as I said, don't sense that much scumness in the points Glork provided. [/quote]

The way he was defending Pooky yesterday dosn't bother you at all?[/quote]It doesn't raise more suspicion then those who tried to stay blank on both possible glork targets (as in, those who didn't care or didn't want neither dead). The fact that he didn't want Pooky dead and did want you dead doesn't mean he is scum. It could be that you're scum as well and those who would've rather seen you dead then Pooky are still town.

[RafK]

Question- how do I increase the posts per page on this forum? If there's an option to do so, I missed it.


Answer to pablito: How am I meant to explain why Mert did anything? This is the unfortunate thing about replacements, and why I don't usually replace. You can judge them on what the original player did (and should, I don't believe in free passes for replacements), but you generally can't get answers unless there's a role-based thing involved. However, as I understood it Mert was mostly being attacked for lurking, and I can explain that by saying he doesn't seem to be at the site now and I won't be lurking so no problem there.

Don't worry, analysis of you will come pablito, you needn't prod me for it.



Analysis of spectrumvoid:

His first few posts I didn't really like how he attacked box (whether the other attacks were valid is another story, but SV's

I'm not buying the newbieness. Playing on emotion is a scum-tell. Claiming when not under pressure is a scum-tell. Giving up is a scum-tell. vote: cardb0ardb0x.

is rampant labelling rather than argument.

Moving on however to the main SV theme of day 1...

SV's next few posts were innocuous and not going anywhere (like the whole thing against MOS for not voting, and against Phoebus for playing by gut), although he does seem to kinda be sucking up to PJ in http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 072#445072.

And again in:
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 246#445246

Changes his mind "because of what PJ said":
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 196#450196

Barns PJ regarding Phoebus
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 884#451884


http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 906#452906
Disagrees with MBL concerning the plan for PJ to nominate two people in advance as King choices to steer the Kingmaker. MBL was completely right that this is a bad idea, and for two reasons- 1) the Kingmaker can trust him/herself, but doesn't know if PJ is similarly trustworthy, or even if PJ is a better judge of character and 2) It allows the mafia to pick which of two potential kings it prefers.

Pooky also came up with a plan on day 1 that was bad for the town (to do with getting the Kingmaker public).


http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 879#451879
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 191#456191
Posts a week apart. In post one, he's not cutting box any slack (box who he's been voting since near the start). In the second one, he unvotes and doesn't remember why he was voting box. This suggests to me insincerity.

SV then gets back to Phoebus again, after a flirtation with voting pablito that doesn't really tell me anything one way or the other.

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 871#459871
For some reason stands up for Vaughn against Thok. I'm always a bit suspicious of day 1 defences, doubly so when it's of a lurker, quadruply so when the person should have not so much as a hint of whether the person is a lurker or not.

There's a difference between being against a day 1 lurker lynch generally and being against the lynch of a SPECIFIC lurker. Especially as Thok gave reasons to vote Vaughn beyond lurking, and we know Thok was sincere.

This isn't saying "SV and Vaughn are mafia together". Maybe he was trying to look good defending someone he knows is townie. This is "SV stands up for someone he should have no business standing up for".


As a summary of day 1, in my initial read I was a bit suspect of SV partly because of the barning PJ thing, but also because despite his relatively decent activity rate, he makes little or no comment at all on some of the day's critical issues (including Rosso Carne). Day 2 (coming soon!) is where I feel the real meat is.

[BrianMcQueso]

Complicated story, but the simple version is that Phoebus has requested replacement. Best of luck to me on that one...

[Fritzler]

ooh, story time

[olio]

She, RafK, she.

[petroleumjelly]

Who did RafK replaced?

Oh yeah. Mert. I'm that much more confident he's town. His analysis on SV seems pretty spot-on, and it's nice to know that I wasn't the only person who got fawning/sucking up vibes from SV in my direction.

On a related note, I'll bet one or two people who were pushing the case on Mert are rotten. Let me check my voting records...

-

D1 Mert Voters

- 5 - Pablito, Twomz [(Samus) Cogito Ergo Sum],

ShadowLurker [Rosso Carne]

, ChannelDelibird [(StallingChamp) Olio], Phoebus
-

D2 Mert Voters

- 5 - Bird1111 [K-Scope], Pablito,

MrBuddyLee

, LuckayLuck, Zindaras
-

D3 Mert Voters

- 2 - LuckayLuck, Pablito

My cursory guess at the moment is one/two of {Phoebus, LuckayLuck, Pablito}. Seriously doubt all three would be scumbags. Leaning most towards Phoebus-scum, most away from Pablito-scum.

I am quite happy with my votes.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

I've reached page 23 and would like to

unvote: all, vote: CrashTextDummie

. Fritz called him scum a couple of times which CTD ignored completely. To me it looks like he didn't say anything, because he wasn't sure what the pro-town thing to say was. Such a thing certainly deserves mention, so I see no other plausible reason.

[pablito]

Don't worry, analysis of you will come pablito, you needn't prod me for it.

I'm not sure where this is coming from. Earlier you mentioned

I didn't like Pablito a hell of a lot on day 1 either.

That's a very justifiable statement. Even I can mention that I didn't like how myself on D1. However, it's a statement I and you can make independent of my alignment or your alignment. Then now the tone of the quote on top makes me wonder if you're now suspecting me heavily rather than just a little (which is what I'm expecting anyway), but I don't get the "prod" part.

I have been preparing to address you, RafK since you replaced in. But please notice that I had not yet posted between the moment when you replaced and when Glork addressed a question to me. Glork in no way "prodded" me. I would've addressed things anyway, independent of what Glork said (nonetheless, I will usually listen to Glork's requests). However, when Glork prodded LL, then I chose not to answer right away. I do have a response and a few questions already in a post for you, RafK. And actually, none of it has to do with Mert's lurking. All I have to do is copy-paste once LL responds first. Since I am suspicious of LL at the moment, I think it's only proper that I wait for him to respond first. I would hope that's a pro-town move.

That little veiled comment in there is what's going to make sure that I don't remove my RafK for a little while. It's painting me in a bad light in a subtle jabbing statement. It is something that I see scum doing. Furthermore, the fact that you, a replacement, suspects me, well it does nothing to qualm my fears. And the fact that PJ just called you pro-townish isn't going to help me either.

[Lowell]

I've reached page 23 and would like to

unvote: all, vote: CrashTextDummie

. Fritz called him scum a couple of times which CTD ignored completely. To me it looks like he didn't say anything, because he wasn't sure what the pro-town thing to say was. Such a thing certainly deserves mention, so I see no other plausible reason.

Ok I'll add a

vote, CTD

. That seems plausible. Why the hell not?

[spectrumvoid]

Apologies for the long delay, but I'm running out of money at the internet cafe to do the player analysis thing (since I've lost access at home due to flooding), which will take a long time. I'll respond to any queries as soon as monetary possible.

[Fritzler]

I've reached page 23 and would like to

unvote: all, vote: CrashTextDummie

. Fritz called him scum a couple of times which CTD ignored completely. To me it looks like he didn't say anything, because he wasn't sure what the pro-town thing to say was. Such a thing certainly deserves mention, so I see no other plausible reason.

plus the fact that he's scum

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

And he defended Pooky a bit.

Confirm vote: CrashTextDummie

King

, please execute our crashing text-ridden scummiedummie.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Btb, I've finished my read now.