Nomic

[Scalebane]

I would like to propose the transmutation of rule 112.

The thought behind this change is simply to make it simpler in the future to change the state of affairs required to win the game.

[CoolBot]

Sounds good to me. And oh look, a new page.

PolarBoy recieves 18 points, and all players' x increase by 840. It is now Scalebane's turn, he has until 10:26 PM GMT on February 23 to submit proposal 310.

No, are x values are still at 0, since the rule doesn't come into affect until

after

it was passed.

107. No rule-change may take effect earlier than the moment of the completion of the vote that adopted it, even if its wording explicitly states otherwise. No rule-change may have retroactive application.

Since R.309 didn't come into being until after it passed, attribute x doesn't exist until after P.309 is passed.

[Norinel]

I think it's a problem with the rule that needs to be clarified, as both events (Increment of x-value and the earliest moment when a rule can take effect) say that they happen at generally the same time (After the completion of the vote on a rule) without saying which happens first. This could be more of an issue down the line; say the next proposal passed is "Every player whose x-value is below 1000 at any time gets 5 points and has their x set to 5000."

[PolarBoy]

I'm inclined to agree with Coolbot's interpretation of the rule. The vote was completed, then the rule came into effect. The action of raising x-values should've happened in between those two actions, and the rule may not be retro-active. So x will be reset to zero. I'll update the front post accordingly.

[Norinel]

So you're saying "the moment of the completion of [a vote on a rule]" (Assuming that a vote that doesn't specify when it takes effect implicitly takes effect as soon as possible.) is after "after [a] vote on a rule is completed"? Why?

[PolarBoy]

It's really up to convention and possibly judgement to decide.

[Norinel]

Well, you'd be the Judge if someone (Do any of the actual players see what I'm talking about?) tries to invoke judgement. I'd go for judgement, at least for now. As for convention, future rules where it matters can specify that they take effect before (Although I'm not sure there's an easy way to say it.) or after ("This rule takes effect the moment after x-values are increased as per the rule that is currently numbered 309.")

[Scalebane]

I would like to invoke judgement.

[PolarBoy]

After considering the alternatives, here is my judgement: Rule 309 does not specify precisely when x values are increased, in relationship to rules taking effect. Part of the problem lies also in that no rule-change so far has explicitly stated when it took effect, and no default timing is given in the rules. It is this judge's interpretation that a phrase stating that a given rule was effective immediately has been implied in every rule change thus far, and that that is how they have been carried out.

Also there is no statement in the rules that two events may not happen simultaneously, so it is this judge's ruling that this is exactly what happens with implementation of rules and increase of x-values, unless otherwise stated. Therefore there must also be arbitation in regards to whether x values remain at 0 for one turn, or are increased by 840. Since rule 309 was not in effect until after it took effect, it would seem that the time for increasing x values was already passed, and therefore never happened.

In summary, my judgements are:
1. Rules are effective immediately by default.
2. Events may happen simultaneously.
3. Rule changes come into effect and x values increase simultaneously unless otherwise stated.
4. All x values are currently set to 0.

[CoolBot]

Does anyone have anything to say about Scalebane's proposal?

[shadyforce]

No, I'm prepared to vote once Scalebane officially ends discussion.

[PolarBoy]

I'm fine with it. It's a pretty logical step.

[Scalebane]

I end discussion. and

Vote yes

[mathcam]

Looks good to me.

Vote: Yes

Cam

[massive]

vote yes

[CoolBot]

vote: yes

[Fishbulb]

Vote: Yes

[mathcam]

Just PB and Stewie, methinks.

Cam

[shadyforce]

What about me? Don't I count?

Vote: Yes

[mathcam]

Fine, fine. Shadyforce too. No need to whine.



Cam

[PolarBoy]

Vote: Yes

[Stewie]

[bVotee: Yes[/b]

[CoolBot]

Well, that passes then. It's shady's turn.

[PolarBoy]

Proposal 310 to transmute rule 112 from immutable to mutable has passed, earning ScaleBane 19 points. shadyforce has until 10:18 PM GMT on February 28th to submit proposal 311.

[CoolBot]

Hmm, shady missed his turn & it's now Stewie's. He has until 10:18 PM GMT March 2nd.