In post 821, greygnarl wrote:ghostlin it's a known fact that not reading the thread is not alignment indicative.
No, I'm referring to the low-hanging fruit can't be scum argument. That is a fallacy. Although let me tell you something. You've got one day to figure this shit out. You're unlikely to request a replacement. Explain how that in any way is pro-town.
"You live for the fight when it's all that you've got."--Bon Jovi, Living on a Prayer
In post 803, Benmage wrote:kuribo come on... what would scum gain from this sort've truth? You think grey's the scum mastermind ring leader?
He could be getting coached, though
"Quick! Tell them the truth! Truthfulness always looks town!" etc
You're reaching now.
I don't think I'm reaching. We know scum have daytalk as evidenced by the sample PM and by the fact that there are no nights anyway.
Why couldn't someone be coaching him? If here were your scumbuddy, wouldn't you coach him?
I mean yes, I'd steer a person like grey... but considering the hostile opening, to the deprecating scumhunting.. to this twisted "truth"-telling... Coaching requires significant game following/focus. It's very doubtful here, and who is this coach anyways?
"ITT Benmage is making Shakespeare look cool. I need to bring you to my high school." -Vi
"If i must blantantly follow somone a player cannot do better than blindly following benmage" - tubby216
In post 809, MattP wrote:You SERIOUSLY don't think scum would try to pull that off nonchalantly because it looks SO brazen it HAS to be town, benmage
Like seriously
I'm not saying scum couldnt... I'm saying greygnarl couldn't.
"ITT Benmage is making Shakespeare look cool. I need to bring you to my high school." -Vi
"If i must blantantly follow somone a player cannot do better than blindly following benmage" - tubby216
In post 821, greygnarl wrote:ghostlin it's a known fact that not reading the thread is not alignment indicative.
No, I'm referring to the low-hanging fruit can't be scum argument. That is a fallacy. Although let me tell you something. You've got one day to figure this shit out. You're unlikely to request a replacement. Explain how that in any way is pro-town.
I don't think anyone is going to say lowhanging fruit can't be scum. (Which I.E. means a poor player, either skill wise, or inexperience.. and for which I have rescinded that OS is one).. So basically you end up lynching someone who makes basic errors because they suck... Could they be scum sucking sure... but there's better odds that they're town sucking.
Hence why I grow weary of D1/D2's because they oft end in mislynching weaklings... Here we don't have the advantage of future days to reconcile our errors... So we can't grow a pair maybe and take down a player *gasp DGB* you wouldn't normally see hang D1.
....i.e. MOAR DGB VOTES.
"ITT Benmage is making Shakespeare look cool. I need to bring you to my high school." -Vi
"If i must blantantly follow somone a player cannot do better than blindly following benmage" - tubby216
Can you bullet for me why you are voting Ghostlin, and can you explain your current read on DGB. Thanks.
"ITT Benmage is making Shakespeare look cool. I need to bring you to my high school." -Vi
"If i must blantantly follow somone a player cannot do better than blindly following benmage" - tubby216
"ITT Benmage is making Shakespeare look cool. I need to bring you to my high school." -Vi
"If i must blantantly follow somone a player cannot do better than blindly following benmage" - tubby216
I have one for Benmage - what is your current read on me?
I'm starting my answering post now.
Flail-delay combo!
Paraphrasing a role PM takes seconds, fabricating a good fakeclaim takes an eternity.
"Metadiving DGB is like playing Roblox" - T3
"She's sort of like a quantum computer, her reads exist in multiple states at once. u have to take into account the other dimensions." - Morning Tweet
I was out all day and I caught up to today's posts. Gonna say CES is actually town.
Also, I can now confirm a kuribo town read.
Re: greygnarl - I think maybe he's just a terrible player. This is one of the rare instances where I'd like to see some other games of his to see if he's always that strange combination of cocky aggression and cowardliness.
Paraphrasing a role PM takes seconds, fabricating a good fakeclaim takes an eternity.
"Metadiving DGB is like playing Roblox" - T3
"She's sort of like a quantum computer, her reads exist in multiple states at once. u have to take into account the other dimensions." - Morning Tweet
In post 837, Benmage wrote:So basically you end up lynching someone who makes basic errors because they suck... Could they be scum sucking sure... but there's better odds that they're town sucking.
Are you afraid we'll do that to you?
Paraphrasing a role PM takes seconds, fabricating a good fakeclaim takes an eternity.
"Metadiving DGB is like playing Roblox" - T3
"She's sort of like a quantum computer, her reads exist in multiple states at once. u have to take into account the other dimensions." - Morning Tweet
Paraphrasing a role PM takes seconds, fabricating a good fakeclaim takes an eternity.
"Metadiving DGB is like playing Roblox" - T3
"She's sort of like a quantum computer, her reads exist in multiple states at once. u have to take into account the other dimensions." - Morning Tweet
How happy were you to get a scum role PM on a scale of 1 to 10?
Paraphrasing a role PM takes seconds, fabricating a good fakeclaim takes an eternity.
"Metadiving DGB is like playing Roblox" - T3
"She's sort of like a quantum computer, her reads exist in multiple states at once. u have to take into account the other dimensions." - Morning Tweet
In post 837, Benmage wrote:So we can't grow a pair maybe and take down a player *gasp DGB* you wouldn't normally see hang D1.
This is, I must say, the most original reason to lynch a player I have ever seen.
I'm really enjoying your "debate" about not lynching low-hanging fruit, OS being some easy-to-lynch noob, how we should preferentially lynch a "gasp* experienced player day 1.
Your shamelessness in posting such a heaping pile of putrefying rubbish is oddly refreshing.
Paraphrasing a role PM takes seconds, fabricating a good fakeclaim takes an eternity.
"Metadiving DGB is like playing Roblox" - T3
"She's sort of like a quantum computer, her reads exist in multiple states at once. u have to take into account the other dimensions." - Morning Tweet
I asked this question for one reason and one reason only.
As you can see here Benmage actively tries to enter the game by using WotC to remove another player signed up for the game.
This also comes after he stated he would be taking things slowly in mafia because the amount of time he had available was reduced.
Then Benmage proceeds to advocate a no lynch on Day 1 in order to given the "town" its best chances to win, or at the very least ensure that the scum don't win.
In post 7, Benmage wrote:So I was thinking we should no lynch D1.
Then for the voting phase when we're all independent players we put 2 votes on the scummiest player, and 1 on everyone else to spread them out as much as possible?
In post 8, Benmage wrote:So I was thinking we should no lynch D1.
Urgh? I want to win Day 1.
... I'm giving us the most town votes to vote scum... let's play the #'s game and be smart.
That said... I just accused CES.... I figured we'd get to see who we've accused... but I guess that is hidden.. so we'll have to cordinnate in game who to accuse and make sure we have 3 on the scummiest person (incase 1 is scum and switches their vote)... Or something like this, let me ponder when I have more time.
In post 13, Quilford wrote: 2) demonstrative of your failure to comprehend the wincons.
Look at rule 6.. Scum need to not be accused to win.
If we don't lynch. 14 players.. 1 scum leaves.. 13 players.
We have 12 votes if we organize correctly to vote amongst 13 players. (VOTE ME Its fine) ... We basically just don't vote 1 person, and as long as that final person isn't scum we win. Game broken. We just need to organize the votes during the day, because we can't see the google form.
He states that spreading out votes out among the players will be the best for a numbers game. From the apparent vigor that Benmage tried to join the game, and given that the rules/winconditions were publicly in view completely countering the reasoning Benmage proposed for a Day 1 lynch I asked the question.
I wanted to see if Benmage was going to say that he joined the game because he "thought of a gamebreaking" strategy enough that he could take on as the moderator puts it, "consistent (if not strenuous) activity" during a period of his life where he doesn't have as much time to devote to mafia.
That is why I was suspicious of his "plan" and his apparent lack of knowledge about the rules.
It looked too staged and not like Ben at all. Then, given the fact that it is Benmage and his notoriety as scum I didn't want to elaborate further and just pressed for him to answer the question, which to my knowledge he never answered. In great part due to the rest of you (DGB, Tbone, and even Kuribo) obfuscating everything, pretty much ruining any cohesion or importance to my question.
In short, I wanted to know why Ben tried so hard to get into this game given his real life situation and then proposed a proposition so obviously wrong and bad the first chance he got.
It looked like that proposition to "break" the game was on the tip of his tongue and that could have been a reason why he wanted to enter the game, but it apparently wasn't. If Ben took just 5 minutes to read the rules he would have seen that his plan was bunk and that any hope of "town cohesion" or a town working together after failing to lynch correctly on Day 1 would be very hard to pull off.
We all turn into self-aligned third parties if we mislynch the first day. Any hope for a coordinated plan exists as far as the morals of the playerbase extend and not allegiance to a common wincondition.
I'm still not sure how I feel about that beginning to the day, but for now I think Ben is town for other actions during the day.
I pretty much explained this earlier, given that I thought Kid A was potentially Regfan.
I had looked into Kid A's viewable posts and he didn't seem to really be an established member of the community which is why I questioned whether or not he was an alt.
Again, this drew the ire of DGB, TBone, and Kuribo almost immediately and their blustery attacks just decimated any vitality to the questions I hoped could have an insight into the game.
The posts that immediately stood out to me as suspicious from Kid A where these 3
In post 28, Kid A wrote:I'm guessing we're all VT except for the scum but if anyone has a PR you should claim because scum has no nk
In post 37, Kid A wrote:do you really think a scumteam with 2 votes can push a lynch on a pr
In post 80, Kid A wrote:i had a scumtell on him and i wanted to see if he did it in any other games or if it was a shitty scumtell
im leaning towards the latter
and i said i was looking at your town meta not your scum meta because i want to see if you fluffpost this much in your other games
Essentially, I didn't trust Kid A's posts about the PRs and "meta" for a few reasons. 1) the game setup is completely known from the sign-up thread and the moderator's beginning posts in this thread. We know that there are no PRs. Why would he make such a blatant statement like that? Especially since that knowledge is known? It was along the same lines that I was suspicious of Benmage and Kid A. 2) the meta comments made it seem as if Kid A had been around the bloc enough times to know what are legitimate scum tells when he just joined in January of this year... His comments all looked like they held some other ulterior motive.
Then when I saw Regfan lurking about this forum I felt that Reg was reading the game on his original account and the actions of Reg definitely do not match the actions of Kid A so I thought that there was a possibility Reg would try to hide his scumgame.
I probably shouldn't have thought that since Reg has morals and that seems kinda underhanded, but it is known that Reg plays much better as town when compared to his scum game.
In post 171, T-Bone wrote:First post of the game and that's all you have to say?
No.
But that's all I want to say for the time being.
This is the "super planny plan things" post where I first alluded to the fact that I was sitting on suspicions and that the suspicions secrecy was vital in order to gain legitimate information not corrupted by the knowledge of said suspicions (i.e. Ben could just lie about why he wanted to join the game, Kid A could just lie about being an alt, etc).
It is a nice segue into the CES suspicion that I was holding onto as well...
This is CES's opening post. Normally, CES almost always opens up a game with a vote on someone. If he is late to getting to the game, the vote will be on the largest bandwagon.
This is where I ask CES about the meta of his vote where he then votes two of the other one vote wagons.
In post 293, Oversoul wrote:Why did it take you so long to adhere to your meta, Cogito?
This was the first time of the games that I have read with CES in them that CES did not wait for a bandwagon and instead started a wagon himself.
Why is this important?
As I said earlier, CES is a creature of meta. There was a public confirmation after a scumgame of his (I think it was the first Large Theme Pony game that was eaten by the Tigers) where CES was talking to a female scummer, Mina or Brandi I think, I can't remember, one who is familiar with his play and he didn't explicitly follow his meta and he said he was nervous about said fact when playing with this female scummer. He then went on to explain what that explicit meta was and it involved bandwagons.
I really wish I could find that post because I feel like it could be useful in gaining a read on him if he didn't follow his own meta. Anyway, I tried looking up games where CES was 1) an original player, and 2) placed the first vote of the game and I have so far not been able to find any games that fit such criteria.
CES ignoring my questions about that meta is suspect because of the implications that it could have. I think he knows his meta pretty well to be able to give a response to my questions but he didn't. He simply called them "inane" choosing to not give a response.
I know he likes to bandwagon. I know he likes to vote the largest wagon as part of his meta.
As you can see here, when CES votes MattP, there were multiple wagons he could have voted
But he chooses to vote MattP. I don't know the extent of his "bandwagon" meta because I am not completely familiar with his playing nuances, but the Matt vote was his second vote in the game.
Why did he choose MattP specifically over the Benmage wagon?
Heck why did he choose it over the other two 1 vote wagons?
I wanted to see what his response would be to the meta question. I think he knew what I was getting into, but instead of explaining for whatever reason he just ignores them.
Here yet again, CES ignores other 1 vote wagons this time on DGB (not seen in VC, but present on the page where CES voted), Benmage, and Kid A going to vote Kanye, who was a 1 vote wagon at the time of him moving away from his RVS vote on Quil onto Matt.
My questions toward him that are "inane" are simple "what gives?" questions. Why do you vote those specific wagons? And why do you follow your apparent meta so late in the game with the vote on DGB?
My push against Ghostlin relied on the fact that it looked like he was trying to take the moral high ground and "teach" Kid A how to play when I thought that if Kid A was an alt he was likely trolling due to the PR talk when this game clearly has no PRs.
I explained this earlier in my dialogue with Ghostlin. I felt his responses were adequate and explained the reasoning well enough that I think he is probably town.
Venmar town - he is pretty much playing similarly to his play in First Time Mafia (featuring yours truly, DGB, MattP, and Venmar! All as town for those wondering. Possibly a good meta read).
There he was VERY adamant about Jal being scum and was wrong, but it was a thought that he defended for pretty much the entirety of the game.
It isn't really something I can quantify other than read his iso there and compare it to his iso here, but the play seems very similar. Of course I could be biased cause I was a neighbor fakeclaiming being a mason that game and Venmar was my neighbor.
It would make sense for Venmar to come in and defend me citing that specific game because 1) we were neighbors together and I pretty much showed him how I played and 2) I "withheld" information from the town like I am doing here (oh
GOD
self-meta).
That's why I think Venmar is town.
It is also why I don't immediately think that DGB is scum for her actions in this game because she tunneled the FUCK out of Venmar in that game for scumtells that he committed. I just happen to be the Venmar of First Time for this game. BUT I do find it suspicious DGB is breaking down the door just to get to my throat in this game considering she was in that other game. Or maybe it is just her
blood
lust getting the best of her.
I find Matt town for his actions in this game because he didn't immediately call me scum and makes me feel like he is using his brain and remembering my play from that game.
I should really reread that game and see how the scum in general reacted to my ~secrets~ and see if there is any human pattern here.
So yea. This is my response and clarification to most egregious "problems" of my play/the suspicions for me playing close to the vest. An invoking my tabula rasa.
So, you all should vote CES with me so we can get a clearer picture of what is going on with his mangled meta and at least make what have to work with *now* salvageable.
Also, Matt, I remember skimming over something you said earlier, about "arrogant town players" and how they think they can get away with acting like that, do you think I am acting arrogant?
This isn't technically relevant as part of the game but I would like to know for the future
Paraphrasing a role PM takes seconds, fabricating a good fakeclaim takes an eternity.
... I'm giving us the most town votes to vote scum... let's play the #'s game and be smart.
BUT I do find it suspicious DGB is breaking down the door just to get to my throat in this game considering she was in that other game. Or maybe it is just her bloodlust getting the best of her.