Newbie Setup (Matrix6 implemented)

[singersigner]

Heeeeey.

I've been meaning to follow up with what we had discussed last spring/summer, but after August, I haven't really been able to get around to anything I said I was going to do. Now that we've finally moved and recovering from everything that happened, my plans to continue with the changes is put back in motion...as soon as we have a consistent internet connection. >_>

I'll have to come back to this thread and give my input when I have more time, but I'm willing to do what was discussed over the summer, or any other improvements that are suggested and generally supported.

<3

[singersigner]

Omggggg, ok, quadz and I are looking at everything on Friday since and going to start figuring out all the changes that need to be made. I know a lot were suggested last summer-ish, but I suck at life. I'll be reading through this thread and if I have any other proposed options, I'll post them for discussion, but otherwise we'll go ahead and implement those changes throughout the weekend.

Thank you so much to everyone who's contributed their thoughts/opinions and helped work toward making the newbie queue the best first impression the site can give.

[singersigner]

Switched Miller to Tracker from Quilford's idea. I'd like to hear opinions from the audience, please.

Mafia Goon	Mafia Goon	Town Cop
Town Jailkeeper	Town Roleblocker	Mafia 1-Shot Strongman
Mafia Rolecop	Town Tracker	Town Doctor

Pick any row, column, or diagonal with three cells.

Add Mafia Goons and Vanilla Townies for 2:7.




Also,

official ruling on Newbie Game Deadlines:

[quote="CURRENT "New Newbie Mod" PM"]All games must be run with fixed 3-week maximum deadlines per game day![/quote]
This is being changed to:
[quote="NEW "New Newbie Mod" PM"]All games must be run with 2- to 3-week deadlines per game day![/quote]

[singersigner]

I honestly think that the balance issue is negligible for either the cop + 2 goon setup or the JK+RB setup. The cop setup is semi-balanced by the fact that experienced players who would necessarily know how to not get lynched would potentially be a night-kill threat anyway, and there's nothing to prevent that from happening. The JK+RB setup doesn't seem to be an issue, especially since that setup is matched up with the mafia Strongman, who can get through them anyway. As to the JK/RB targeting each other issue, I'm willing to make a blanket resolution that all newbie games are required to follow via the standard role PMs. Either the jailkeeper resolves first, or the roleblocker does, and that will just be the standard Newbie Game resolution. Thoughts as to which one?

I

really

like the fact that there are at least two options for everything, so no powerrole will automatically know the setup.

To also address various questions/concerns:

• Newbie games were started in batches because of the convenience of updating the queue in that manner. Now that the queue is updated more frequently, games will be up as they are filled, with the exception that if there are only the minimum amount of newbies in the queue for a game, I'll wait until there's at LEAST a couple more to account for potential flakes or immediate replacements that mods can just grab automatically from the top of the queue.
  
• I agree with adding an SE, but not an IC, which will help maintain the queue of ICs as well as help balance out the SE queue IN COMBINATION WITH
  amending the SE requirement to three games, AS WELL AS requiring at least one of them to be non-newbie game to be an SE
  --this will prevent newbies from hitting their newbie game limit and immediately recycling into the SE queue and becoming UNLIMITED NEWBIE STATUS. This will carry over to the IC requirement as you must be eligible to SE before you can IC.
  The new setup will be 5:3:1
  
  
• SEs/ICs /inning to the queue more than once--is that much of an issue now that the queue is updated more frequently? If so, we can start sandwiching back-to-back /ins.
  I agree that the standards for being an IC could be a little bit more strict, but at the current moment, there's no real standard other than "don't be mean" and "even if you aren't good, know what you should be doing...sort of."
  What kind of concrete standards can we implement, that don't rely as heavily on my subjective judgement?
  
  
• I will begin randomizing the setups myself and sending them to the mod to randomize the playerlist.
  
  
• As soon as all of these changes are ready to be implemented,
  I will start a new Newbie Queue Thread, complete with wiki links to "standard role PMs" for the 9 new role options
  (goon, town, roleblocker, jailkeeper, cop, doc, strongman, rolecop, tracker) which newbie mods are free to borrow at will. The SE/IC requirements will also be updated, as well as the deadlines and any other deadlines deemed necessary by this thread.
  
• I'm not familiar with the process of conversion stats (i.e. the retention of newbies past 6 months or so), but quadz has expressed willingness to help compile those stats. If anyone else has any desire to help with that, we'd appreciate any contributions.
  
• I would prefer to allow replacements to continue as they are because
  it's more important to have the games run as smoothly/normally as possible
  , than risk a newbie missing out on their own "new game" experience because they feel pressured into replacing into a game as their only means of playing one--on the flip side, if the queue is continued to be updated at this rate, there's not much of an incentive to replace into a game as a newbie because of the option of starting your own anyway (versus the wait time before would give impatient newbies incentive to replace in instead).

Could the OP of the newbie queue be more clear?

It's been brought to my attention in the past that the queue should be first, and then in the second post, have all of the rules/requirements/"to know" links. I agree that it seems to be cluttered, but I don't know what we can afford to condense/remove/re-order/etc. What are people's thoughts on this/is it necessary to change?

[singersigner]

Hmm...that's a good point about the requirement v. count. I just thought upping the count PLUS extra experience for all of them was a good compromise to not adding another IC if having experienced players was still an issue, especially if we're going to try to be more strict with IC requirements.

[singersigner]

Ok, then the roleblocker?

[singersigner]

Yes.

He means the Matrix-style. We're opting for CES' with due credit to Quilford for helping getting the ball rolling.

Speaking of which.

Wholey crap.

Incoming...

[singersigner]

Hello everyone!

As has been previously discussed, we have FINALLY implemented the numerous amounts of changes we've discussed in the past year. Included in these changes are:

• updating the format of the OP so it's cleaner, and easier to read through for any relevant information
  
• changing the requirements for SEs from two completed games anywhere, to three completed games with one being from outside of The Road to Rome
  
• changing the requirements for ICs from five completed games anywhere, to five completed games with at least two being from outside of The Road to Rome
  
• newbie games will now have five newbies, three SEs, and one IC
  
• updating the newbie setup to reflect the Matrix6 format, with one of six options that I'll be randomizing, as shown below:

1. town jailkeeper, vanilla townie, mafia goon
2. mafia roleblocker, town cop, town doctor
3. town 1-shot bulletproof, mafia goon, town tracker
4. town jailkeeper, mafia roleblocker, town 1-shot bulletproof
5. vanilla townie, town cop, mafia goon
6. mafia goon, town doctor, town tracker

Wiki entries for the completed games and Matrix6 have been updated accordingly. The link to the Newbie Information on the wiki will be updated shortly. Wooooo!

[singersigner]

So I think I would go with VRK on this one--gut says newbie should be comfortable enough to venture out at that point. The problem was that with the old SE requirements, they

could

stay in the newbie queue forever (first as newbies, then as SEs). I didn't think about the fact that it's not an official rule that after two games, it's not that you're not a newbie anymore, it's that you

become

an SE.

I'm thinking that I'll officially put a 2-game limit on newbie games, unless there's a significant backlash to that.

[singersigner]

Oops, thanks for pointing that out. Yeah, we were using the original description from Quilford's, which accounted for the potential setup where 6 VTs and no goons were added. This makes much more sense.