Mini 1439 -- Game Over

[2birds1stone]

Vote Count 1.4

Alexcellent (0)
Cheery Dog (0)
Norfolk Enchance (0)
RadiantCowbells (2) -- Ztife, MrBump
MrBump (0)
Secret Agent Sloth (2) -- YOLO, chillkid
qwints (0)
chillkid (1) -- Bacde
Fegelein (2) -- Cheery Dog, Secret Agent Sloth
Bacde (2) -- Fegelein, Norfolk Enchance
Ztife (1) -- RadiantCowbells
Red Dragon (1) -- qwints
YOLO (1) -- Red Dragon

Not voting -- Alexcellent

With thirteen alive, it takes seven to lynch

Day One ends in (expired on 2013-04-26 06:24:00)

Replacing Alexcellent

[MrBump]

THIS ACTIVITY IS GLORIOUS

[Fegelein]

Well, bring something to the table then if you want to get activity.

[qwints]

Maybe, maybe not. I have no interest in wagon'ing RC at the moment, but I'm not interested in derailing his wagon either.

I thought you said that RC"s defeatism was town based on his meta. If that's the case, why would you not want to derail his wagon?

[Ztife]

I'll be up for a YOLO wagon though.

Unvote, Vote: YOLO

@Feg do you still think Bacde is scum? The exchanges.. are just awkward. Who else do you think could be scum?

Also, this defeatist issue has been discussed a couple of times now, and I think we can agree that most of us think its anti-town but a null tell.

@MrBump, make a case. Who are your scum reads so far?

YOLO and RC kinda up in my scum list now. Bacde, Sloth and Bump kinda townish.

Mostly just gut-reads.

[YOLO]

Don't really know what Norfolk has done wrong.

Nothing. He hasn't done anything at all. Are you implying that we should give hard-lurkers a free pass? I certainly hope you don't. All we can do against hard-lurkers is wagon them. If they still refuse to post, we lynch them.

But I want to hear why you have yet to vote anyone because you think they are scum, but for pressure and game-mockery?

Will discuss Ferg first, but expect my vote unless you have a good reason.

Ah, but my vote was not for game-mockery. That's just an additional reason. You've been quite quiet early game (which is rare for a hydra) and your recent activity consists of jokes of you being 'not dull' and 'super awkward'. The closest thing to actual game content you've provided consists of your threat to OMGUS me. So let's see you see post something useful. If you keep up this 'fun' attitude, I can guarantee you I will try my hardest to get you lynched.

Not all hydras are super active. Certain hydras like to make fewer posts, and rather than post individually like crazy, the two players talk before making a post to begin with. Not saying that's the case, but it kind of makes your point moot. The has game barely started too and you're calling US quiet? In reality, I think your push on us just boils down to a hydra policy lynch, because I don't think you really believe anything of what you're saying.

~ V

I don't believe I said you had to be 'super active'. And I can assure you all my content is serious, I don't bluff around. You don't get points either for bringing up my RVS vote as my 'true motive' .
Rather than defending yourself with poor arguments, you should convince me of a better target. Tell me, who do you think is scum at this moment? Who knows, if your case is good enough I might even sheep you.

Maybe, maybe not. I have no interest in wagon'ing RC at the moment, but I'm not interested in derailing his wagon either.

I thought you said that RC"s defeatism was town based on his meta. If that's the case, why would you not want to derail his wagon?

I'd rather spend my energy hunting for scum than defending my town reads. If people want to vote RC, they need to state their opinion on a controversial issue and that's what makes this game move forward. I'm not so full of myself that I believe I'm 100% correct on RC and anyone who joins a RC wagon is either a fool or scum. People should feel free to vote whoever they want. If it's a bad vote, this will only be a source of information for town.

I'll be up for a YOLO wagon though.

Unvote, Vote: YOLO

Reasoning for this would be much appreciated.

[Fegelein]

I have 2 main reasons why I feel Bacde is one of our better lynches:
1: Says that #32 and #36 are scummy, never expands on it, despite me asking. Looks like he's avoiding my question.

2: Red Dragon gave good reasoning, he's basically not helping the Town scumhunt also.

I'm also getting bad feelings about SAS (bandwagoned me, with no explanation, and a lack of contributions anyway), Norfolk (his only post was a simple vote, with no explanation), Cheery Dog (his reasoning into voting me is really odd, but on the other hand, his recent posts are better) and Radiant (don't let him get off the hook so early for the things he's done)

Null reads on qwints, YOLO, Alex and chillkid.

Town on Ztife, Red Dragon and MrBump.

[Bacde]

I have 2 main reasons why I feel Bacde is one of our better lynches:
1: Says that #32 and #36 are scummy, never expands on it, despite me asking. Looks like he's avoiding my question.

2: Red Dragon gave good reasoning, he's basically not helping the Town scumhunt also.

I'm also getting bad feelings about SAS (bandwagoned me, with no explanation, and a lack of contributions anyway), Norfolk (his only post was a simple vote, with no explanation), Cheery Dog (his reasoning into voting me is really odd, but on the other hand, his recent posts are better) and Radiant (don't let him get off the hook so early for the things he's done)

Null reads on qwints, YOLO, Alex and chillkid.

Town on Ztife, Red Dragon and MrBump.

dude I feel like I've explained myself to you and answered your questions like 3 times by now, what aren't you getting?

[Fegelein]

well, for one it gets reactions

such as you being overly defensive to my barely typed out post

This is the closest thing to an answer you have provided.

[Bacde]

So as far as I can gather, SAS is voting me for being experienced.


Cheery Dog's last post raises a valid point in my opinion though, which I do agree with, despite the fact that we don't see eye to eye here.

Still waiting for Bacde to respond to my questions.

What questions?

Why #32 and #36 are scummy. It's old, but you've still successfully avoided my queries for about 100 posts.

it was just how I felt at the time

I thought I communicated this to you

[Fegelein]

So, it was gut feeling?

[Bacde]

So, it was gut feeling?

mostly

[Secret Agent Sloth]

I ( Venmar ) voted for Fegelein because he looked like Nervous Scum, and he is overdefensive and overreacting to pressure. His #36 was bad because I felt like he defeated the half of his post with one sentence near the end, contradicting himself, and then I also get this feeling from his slot that he's trying to appeal to others so as not to get on anybody's bad side.

It seems as if our game has stagnated already, so let's change that.

RVS is getting us nowhere at this moment in time, so I'm going to provide a question for us all to answer.

What do you think of chillkid's #32?

Personally, I think it's a town tell, as he does raise a good point. Just look at some of the past newbie games, there has been amazing newbie scum, and we shouldn't avoid scrutinizing someone because they are new.

I'm not out of RVS at this stage, because as far as I can see, there are no scum tells in my eyes. qwints's RVS play is a little suspicious, but I'm probably looking too deep into it. I'd quite like it if people answer my question though.

Sorry if you think that I'm taking the start of the game so seriously,

I'm just seeing that people aren't getting the ball rolling here, so I've decided to do it myself.

First, the bolded is an example of being nervous ahead of time, and trying to sound as if he isn't trying to get on anybody's bad side. What else bothered me was that he starts saying that RVS is getting us nowhere and that the game stagnated ( which is indirectly associated with RVS ), but then after complaining about the RVS he ends off the post by saying that he himself is still in RVS... as if he doesn't want to leave it or something. That whole sentence seemed to defeat his purpose of trying to get out the RVS. The whole post is just all over the place in general really.

That's kind of the JIST of my vote for Fegelein.

~ V

[Bacde]

^^YES

THAT is why I didn't like #36

I don't understand why you kept making hedgey comments like the bolded one above if you were trying to make opinionated posts to get us out of RVS

[Fegelein]

I ( Venmar ) voted for Fegelein because he looked like Nervous Scum, and he is overdefensive and overreacting to pressure. His #36 was bad because I felt like he defeated the half of his post with one sentence near the end, contradicting himself, and then I also get this feeling from his slot that he's trying to appeal to others so as not to get on anybody's bad side.

I wouldn't consider myself overreacting to pressure, I'm just failing to understand why I justify votes, and the fact is, the votes against me are weak atm (your reasoning is an interesting analogy though).

It seems as if our game has stagnated already, so let's change that.

RVS is getting us nowhere at this moment in time, so I'm going to provide a question for us all to answer.

What do you think of chillkid's #32?

Personally, I think it's a town tell, as he does raise a good point. Just look at some of the past newbie games, there has been amazing newbie scum, and we shouldn't avoid scrutinizing someone because they are new.

I'm not out of RVS at this stage, because as far as I can see, there are no scum tells in my eyes. qwints's RVS play is a little suspicious, but I'm probably looking too deep into it. I'd quite like it if people answer my question though.

Sorry if you think that I'm taking the start of the game so seriously,

I'm just seeing that people aren't getting the ball rolling here, so I've decided to do it myself.

First, the bolded is an example of being nervous ahead of time, and trying to sound as if he isn't trying to get on anybody's bad side.

This point was more to say "I actually prefer everybody to have fun, winning is still of high priority though.

What else bothered me was that he starts saying that RVS is getting us nowhere and that the game stagnated ( which is indirectly associated with RVS ), but then after complaining about the RVS he ends off the post by saying that he himself is still in RVS... as if he doesn't want to leave it or something. That whole sentence seemed to defeat his purpose of trying to get out the RVS. The whole post is just all over the place in general really.

Let me explain why I said that. I stated that I remained in RVS because I felt that nobody constituted a real vote at that stage in time. I wasn't trying to end RVS with my post, I was instead proposing a question for people to answer also.

That's kind of the JIST of my vote for Fegelein.

~ V

@Bacde: Are you serious? You just completely parroted what he said.

[Fegelein]

Forgot to state this, but I feel SAS actually has decent reasoning, looking at it from his point of view. He's moved into the Null/Town catergory.

[Bacde]

Yeah I'm completely serious

I guess you could take it as "parroting" but considering that I stated that I didn't like the post before Venmar ever did I don't know why you would assume that my reasons for thinking the post was bad depended on Venmar saying the post was bad, (Venmar = Secret Agent Sloth)

rather than just me agreeing with Venmar's reasoning about

WHY

the post was bad, which is what I did

In fact, you moving SAS up to town category when he's pointing out why your posts could be perceived as scummy is super scummy imo

[Fegelein]

The fact of the matter is that I have been chasing you for your proper thoughts for most of the game, and you have not given me a very clear answer. Now that SAS has posted a clearer answer, you say "Yeah, that's what I meant by scummy"

Also, how is it scummy if SAS is accusing me and I don't think it's scummy? Think from his point of view. His reasoning is original and it makes sense to him, even though I disagree with it.

Just because you said it was scummy first doesn't mean you're not parroting SAS's post here.

[Bacde]

The fact of the matter is that I have been chasing you for your proper thoughts for most of the game, and you have not given me a very clear answer. Now that SAS has posted a clearer answer, you say "Yeah, that's what I meant by scummy"

Also, how is it scummy if SAS is accusing me and I don't think it's scummy? Think from his point of view. His reasoning is original and it makes sense to him, even though I disagree with it.

Just because you said it was scummy first doesn't mean you're not parroting SAS's post here.

JUST BECAUSE

I said it was scummy first doesn't mean that I'm not parroting SAS's post here,

so you're gonna have to take my word for it--I'm not. I was just agreeing with it. He was able to say with words the things about that post that I didn't like that I was unable to express. Since you didn't like my explanation I thought I would agree with someone else's that would make more sense to you.

I mean, I feel as though I gave you a pretty clear answer twice, and you've been hounding me for something that in your opinion should be false reasoning anyway, so I don't understand why you've been so adamant about pursuing me to keep repeating my answer to you

Also, its super scummy to see someone and think "Yeah, their logic and reasoning is wrong, that really establishes them as town or leaning-town"

But SAS thinking you are scum should be something that you should know is false, yet you townread him for it? Seems fishy

[Fegelein]

The fact of the matter is that I have been chasing you for your proper thoughts for most of the game, and you have not given me a very clear answer. Now that SAS has posted a clearer answer, you say "Yeah, that's what I meant by scummy"

Also, how is it scummy if SAS is accusing me and I don't think it's scummy? Think from his point of view. His reasoning is original and it makes sense to him, even though I disagree with it.

Just because you said it was scummy first doesn't mean you're not parroting SAS's post here.

JUST BECAUSE

I said it was scummy first doesn't mean that I'm not parroting SAS's post here,

so you're gonna have to take my word for it--I'm not. I was just agreeing with it. He was able to say with words the things about that post that I didn't like that I was unable to express. Since you didn't like my explanation I thought I would agree with someone else's that would make more sense to you.

I mean, I feel as though I gave you a pretty clear answer twice, and you've been hounding me for something that in your opinion should be false reasoning anyway, so I don't understand why you've been so adamant about pursuing me to keep repeating my answer to you

Also, its super scummy to see someone and think "Yeah, their logic and reasoning is wrong, that really establishes them as town or leaning-town"

But SAS thinking you are scum should be something that you should know is false, yet you townread him for it? Seems fishy

How were you unable to express them? I would have loved to hear your thoughts on why you thought the posts were scummy, yet you never did until SAS posted his reasoning, then you just stole his reasoning.

No, you didn't give me a clear answer twice, your posts just said "I did it for reactions" and "It's my gut feeling". I've been pursuing you for so long to answer this question because I want an answer, and it is extremely suspicious that you kept avoiding it, and even more suspicious still when you finally gave your reasoning after SAS posted his (and it was a blatant parrot)

Also, the reason I see SAS as Null/Town is the fact that I put myself in his shoes. Sure, I know I'm Town, and that's why I disagree with him, and I'm clarifying why I behaved as such. But SAS doesn't know I am Town, and therefore, his case seems a little more legit. True, he could be scum, but the reasoning seems more town-contrived to me, as opposed to a scummy, opportunistic vote.

[Bacde]

^^That's sort of a misrep

I gave you clear answers about how I felt about #32 and #36--I just felt like they were scummy

You asked me how posting my opinion without explanation was possibly protown, to which I responded that it can get reactions

So you saying that I expressed my opinion just "to get reactions" is a misrep and probably a big part of why you are misperceiving me--I wasn't posting to "get reactions", I was just posting. And just posting is good because it CAN get reactions

And I haven't avoided your question at all, I've been reiterating my point that it was mostly gut and I just felt like they were scum posts

Why can't you accept that as an answer?

What counts as an acceptable answer to you? Because a LOT of my reasonings in ALL of my games has to do with gut and intuition

When I tried to further explain my reasoning by agreeing with someone else who I felt captured my feelings well, you now say that its scummy for me to attempt to answer your question?

Its weird to me that I've been answering your question all thread, yet you still harp on me about answering it, and when I find someone else's post that expresses my feelings you find that even scummier? I don't understand why you keep asking me questions when you are clearly not going to pay attention to the answers

[Fegelein]

^^That's sort of a misrep

I gave you clear answers about how I felt about #32 and #36--I just felt like they were scummy

You asked me how posting my opinion without explanation was possibly protown, to which I responded that it can get reactions

So you saying that I expressed my opinion just "to get reactions" is a misrep and probably a big part of why you are misperceiving me--I wasn't posting to "get reactions", I was just posting. And just posting is good because it CAN get reactions

And I haven't avoided your question at all, I've been reiterating my point that it was mostly gut and I just felt like they were scum posts

Why can't you accept that as an answer?

What counts as an acceptable answer to you? Because a LOT of my reasonings in ALL of my games has to do with gut and intuition

When I tried to further explain my reasoning by agreeing with someone else who I felt captured my feelings well, you now say that its scummy for me to attempt to answer your question?

Its weird to me that I've been answering your question all thread, yet you still harp on me about answering it, and when I find someone else's post that expresses my feelings you find that even scummier? I don't understand why you keep asking me questions when you are clearly not going to pay attention to the answers

State how it was a misrep.

You didn't give me clear answers on why you thought they were scummy until you echoed SAS's thoughts. Gut Feeling and getting reactions /=/ answering why you thought the post was scummy properly.

#44 says otherwise. You seemed to be stating that you said it to get reactions in that post, now you're saying that was an unintended effect?

Mostly gut then? So why did you suddenly agree with SAS's reasoning. It's like saying "Oh, I thought that too, but I didn't put it down". It doesn't make any sense. You've not really been stating a clear answer why you think it's scummy, while SAS has done otherwise.

I can't accept that because the reasoning is poor, and anybody can say "Gut feeling this post is Town/Scum". It seems like a get out of jail free card.

An acceptable answer would be something along the lines SAS posted. Pointing out what you found scummy about them. Not just saying "It was gut"

No, it seems like you are completely copying someone else's thoughts, because you only have a "gut feeling" case against me, and when someone actually has a reasonable case against me (although I do disagree with it), you say "Yeah, I was thinking this all along". Had you answered me with this before, maybe we wouldn't be here. It seems very scummy that you would take someone's reasoning and say "I was thinking that all along", especially since your only other case against me is "gut feeling"

No, the problem is, had you answered with that in the first place, before SAS's post, I wouldn't have found it scummy. It just seems that you're trying to use someone else's case against me, when you didn't point it out yourself initially. Also, as I've said, your reasoning was very poor, and now you're taking someone else's better reasoning, and using it as your own.

[MrBump]

But SAS thinking you are scum should be something that you should know is false, yet you townread him for it? Seems fishy

"You don't OMGUS him, you must be scum!"

[Bacde]

But SAS thinking you are scum should be something that you should know is false, yet you townread him for it? Seems fishy

"You don't OMGUS him, you must be scum!"

Eh, I'm not saying that he MUST be scum

but town are more likely to OMGUS than townread whoever is attacking them

[Bacde]

look if you really think its my scum master plan to get away with saying "gut" for all of my reasonings and somehow convincing all of the town to vote alongside with me despite my lack of a good argument (?) then go ahead and vote me

because you are getting really riled up about gut reads that I had on p2

and you are getting really riled up about me being honest and not just trying to make up shit answers and telling you straight up it was gut

and you are getting really riled up about me agreeing with another poster's reasoning against you