Mini 396: ChatMafia Mafia; GAME OVER

[Y]

I find it interesting how you like to only use part of my quotes. In that first quote you might note that I also said I am not new to Mafia, yet you seem to have conviniently left that part out so that you could make the point that I am acting dumb. As far as the second quote, all I can say is it's true.

What I got from his post, actually, is that you're acting dumb

although

you're not new to the game, thus, by your reasoning - You're scum.

[AngusHutchsky]

Hmm, I don't see how I am acting dumb, but you can think what you would like.

[Y]

I'm just telling you what I think milkman is saying, but you do act dumb in some ways:
1. You're using the "I'm new on the site" excuse while saying that you're not new to mafia.
2. You "random" vote with a reason.
3. You're saying that you know the reason for your vote and therefore it stays, yet no one else can understand it.
4. You wrote "Everyone else is voting randomly, why are you picking on me?", while the reason for picking on you is that your vote isn't random.

Those are the ones on the top of my head. I'm not willing to reread the whole thread right now and find everything. It's after 2:00am around here after all...

[Y]

I almost forgot the most important one: You really seem like you can't understand our accusations.

[AngusHutchsky]

1) I am new on the site, how is that acting dumb?
2 & 3) Yes.
4) Thanks for the answer I guess.
5) What accusations? Milkman just keeps talking about how my vote can't be random and have a reason, and if I remember right the reason you voted for me was "crap logic" - not what I would call an accusation.

The only thing here that I see might make me look dumb is that I said I random voted with a reason, which does sound a bit odd and is certainly hard to explain, which is why I said that since

I

know what I mean, I will leave my vote in place.

[AngusHutchsky]

One other thing...why did you use the term "our accusations" when you havn't made any?

[ChannelDelibird]

1) I am new on the site, how is that acting dumb?

Because it's not about where you've played mafia before. It's the same game you've played before. Why, just because you are playing it somewhere different, is it more difficult for you? It's not stopping you from understanding that you can't random vote with a reason, etc.

[Y]

I am new on the site, how is that acting dumb?

"I'm an experienced player, but if I do something odd, it might be because I'm new to the site and the other site plays differently". This is what

I

understood from your comment and it looks like a disclaimer for any scummy posts. Believe me, I used the "I'm new" excuse more than once...

Here's the explanation of "crap logic". Just for you:
When some one makes a vote with no good reason, it appears scummy. At that point, people might point at you for being scummy, so you need a reason. Since "I want to get a townie lynched today" is a good reason, but it can get you in trouble, some kind of logic bubbling can get people off your back. Some times you find a good explanation, but other times you just say the first thing that comes to mind and it sounds stupid.
Examples:
Crap logic - I have a reason, but it's random, because it's based on another site, so on that site it isn't random, but you don't know the other site, so to you it appears random, so I'm telling you that so you can all know that my vote had a reason that you can't understand so treat it as if it was random, but you should vote him too because of the reason I gave you. Anyway, I know what I mean so I'm right.
Real logic - That was a load of crap logic. It probably covers a reasonless vote, so I'll vote the guy.

But you probably didn't know it. You're new to the site...

One other thing...why did you use the term "our accusations" when you havn't made any?

I believe that once I explained how "Crap Logic" is an accusation, this sentence doesn't count anymore:

the reason you voted for me was "crap logic" - not what I would call an accusation

But for you I'll use the format of "

Accusation:

Blah" the next time...

[HurriKaty]

1) I am new on the site, how is that acting dumb?

I'm giving you a fair warning from personal experience here.

That excuse will

not

sit well with people. Prepare to be heckled.

[Y]

Can we get a vote count please?

There are also people not posting or 'one post'ers. Maybe a prod would help...

[AngusHutchsky]

Y,

I am sad that you see it as crap logic, but am glad that someone finally gets it.

As far as the "I am new to the site" comment, I would understand the fuss if I had used it as an excuse, but I didn't.

Being that he's new here, I don't think Angus understood the joke behind the comment. I haven't been on site in months due to real life issues. I don't know if he's also relatively new to the game of mafia though, as his seemingly conflicted reason for voting would indicate.

My next response...

I am new to the site, but I am not that new to Mafia - been playing a few months. I guess the point I am trying to make isn't making it. Anyway, whether you see my vote as random or not, at least I know why I put it there and so there it will stay.

[Y]

I am sad that you see it as crap logic, but am glad that someone finally gets it.

I understood it from the beginning. That's why I'm saying "crap logic" and not "completely lack of logic" like everybody else.

Why do I think it is crap logic?
First of all, it wasn't your reason, but some one else's.
Second, it wasn't a reason, but a joke.
To that you added the "Random" factor.

Why is it scummy?
You used some reasoning that is weak, but somewhat logical ("Playing wrong because of not remembering how to play" could be a scum tell), but then you added the "for randomness sake", which people use as an excuse if the vote is questioned.
In short: "I have a weak reason with an emergency exit".

Once you received comments for using a sentence that has two parts that contradict each other, you stated explaining, using the same method:
A weak tale about reasoning that came from another site (That can apply on any mafia game, no matter where) with another safe valve: If it looks weird, it's probably because we play differently in the other site.

So what do we have?
A weak reason with an escape rout covered by a weak reasoning with another back door.

And what is the final closure?
"My actions may look weird, but I know they're right, so it's okay. Don't worry - I know what I'm doing here (Even if you don't)"

As far as the "I am new to the site" comment, I would understand the fuss if I had used it as an excuse, but I didn't.

Being that he's new here, I don't think Angus understood the joke behind the comment. I haven't been on site in months due to real life issues. I don't know if he's also relatively new to the game of mafia though, as his seemingly conflicted reason for voting would indicate.

My next response...

I am new to the site, but I am not that new to Mafia - been playing a few months. I guess the point I am trying to make isn't making it. Anyway, whether you see my vote as random or not, at least I know why I put it there and so there it will stay.

I'll help you find another example. To this post:

Oh, and just for discussion sake, I have never heard of a scum claiming ignorance of how to play in order to lurk. I've heard them claim to have no opinion on what is being discussed, they've claimed general confusion, indecision, even concensus with the rest of the group (and in Baby Jesus's case, even boredom), but not ignorance of rules.

Your response was:

I have, but maybe the guys I usually play with are as messed up as I seem to be.

[Y]

About the last two quotes:
AngusHutchsky's is a direct responce to draygn_mage. Check post #36.

[AngusHutchsky]

Wow, Y, I must compliment you on that last (the longer) post. It helps me understand your vote a lot better, and I must admit I have given you reason to suspect me without even realizing it. I am not Scum, but I can't find a way to argue with your logic...

[al_kohaulec]

alkohaulec2: Ok, back. Now let's see here... what do we need.
alkohaulec2: Oh yes! A vote count. Let me see what I can do here...
alkohaulec2:

Vote Count:

AngusHutchsky

- 2 - milkman, Y

milkman

- 2 - HurriKaty, ChannelDelibird

Jack

- 1 - draygn_mage

draygn_mage

- 1 - AngusHutchsky

Y

- 1 - Coron

Twito

- 1 - Zindaras

Those who have yet to vote:

Twito, StallingChamp, Masterchief, Jack


Twito and StallingChamp haven't posted yet, they will both be prodded. StallingChamp had a message in his sig saying he wouldn't have access during this time, but if he doesn't post after the first, then I will start looking for a replacement for him.

[Twito]

Mod said you are missing me here and I though it's so sweet that I just have to make a post.

Vote: StallingChamp

For being rude and not replying to mod when he asked so nicely.

[Zindaras]

Okay, I've reread the argument, and I'm thinking about it. Angus made a scumtell by non-random random voting, then milkman pounced on it very aggressively. I'd say even a bit too aggressively.

If Angus is scum, then CDB is prolly his scumbuddy.

I don't really like Angus's defense either. He's very clearly pulling the newbie card here, and I don't like that. You should always be able to defend yourself, even as a new guy. I don't understand what conventions he must've missed for him to make that post.

I think I'll

Unvote, Vote: AngusHutchsky

, for the case against him is strongest so far. I'm keeping my eyes out for bandwagoners, though.

[ChannelDelibird]

If Angus is scum, then CDB is prolly his scumbuddy.

I can understand that this would be a logical deduction to make from post #44.

I understand and partially agree with the Angus case at the moment (in particular Y's post #61 is well put), although the reason I'm not voting for him now is that he reminds me very much of me as newbie-townie. I do think that it's worth my while to

unvote milkman

, though, as I can't blame him for making the case he has.

I would like to hear from those who haven't posted in the last page or so.

[AngusHutchsky]

Zindaras, and everyone else for that matter, I am not pulling the 'newbie card.' I have tried over and over to explain that, even when I posted that I was new to the site I followed it by saying I am not new to Mafia. What more would you like me to say? And as far as being able to defend myself, in this case I don't see how. Y has made a solid argument, a wrong accusation, but a solid argument none-the-less. The only other thing I could do to convince you is roleclaim, which I am not quite prepared to do yet.

[Jack]

The only other thing I could do to convince you is roleclaim, which I am not quite prepared to do yet.

You pretty much just said you have a pro-town role though. I don't like it.

[draygn_mage]

After reading Zindaras's post, it feels like he is scum and saw an easy townie kill in the semi-meltdown of Angus. I see him committing 2 scumtells in one post. One is telling us that CDB is Angus's scumbuddy (its WAY too early in the game to make that kind of statement, and besides, CDB is an experienced player who I don't think would risk his neck for a scumbuddy) and then to follow that up with "but I'll be looking for bandwagonners"????? So you feel he is scum, but *just in case he's not* you'll be watching to see who votes him. I don't buy it. If I had to make a guess off hand, I would say that you are scum and that you *may* have outed CDB as your partner, by trying to get him cleared for backing up a townie that you are currently running up.

unvote, vote Zindaras

[Zindaras]

Zindaras, and everyone else for that matter, I am not pulling the 'newbie card.' I have tried over and over to explain that, even when I posted that I was new to the site I followed it by saying I am not new to Mafia. What more would you like me to say? And as far as being able to defend myself, in this case I don't see how. Y has made a solid argument, a wrong accusation, but a solid argument none-the-less. The only other thing I could do to convince you is roleclaim, which I am not quite prepared to do yet.

Claiming you're new to the site is pulling the newbie card.

One is telling us that CDB is Angus's scumbuddy (its WAY too early in the game to make that kind of statement, and besides, CDB is an experienced player who I don't think would risk his neck for a scumbuddy)

1) Prolly. Not a definite statement, I'm just pointing, as CDB himself said, to Post 44, and I don't want that to be ignored.
2) WIFOM.

and then to follow that up with "but I'll be looking for bandwagonners"????? So you feel he is scum, but *just in case he's not* you'll be watching to see who votes him.

Again, you're not reading my post right. All I'm saying is that I feel the case against Angus is the strongest one right now, so my vote's on him. I'm not sure about my vote, so I'm keeping my eyes out for bandwagons that may point at scum and the like.

[draygn_mage]

@Jack- well he's not likely to make a post saying he has an anti-town role, is he?

[HurriKaty]

Wow, Y, I must compliment you on that last (the longer) post. It helps me understand your vote a lot better, and I must admit I have given you reason to suspect me without even realizing it. I am not Scum, but I can't find a way to argue with your logic...

Please tell me theres some sarcasm in this I'm not getting, because if thats not sucking up to try to save your ass, I dont know what is.

[AngusHutchsky]

No, HurriKaty, there was no sarcasm.