Kingmaker II-Game Over

[Zindaras]

It's definitely lobbying. Look, everyone has a different playstyle. I'd love to be King, but I'm not going to say how totally radical and controversial I'd be.

There is no reason to go and point it out. I don't think we should be making the Kingmaker's decisions for him.

[petroleumjelly]

Yos in three sentences:
Several of the people I consider very very townie argue specifically against a Yos execution. You can say that this is a slippery slope, but I am willing to go down this path. Also, Yos's arguments while on your LOE while being one of your top suspects don't quite make sense as scum: he pushes for Twomz and Phoebus, two people that aren't/weren't even on the execution list, and his defense style is just one that is townie.

Mert in three sentences:
Similarly, a lot of people I consider very very townie argue specifically for a Mert execution. Reading his posts, in day1, Mert did not accuse anyone of scummy behavior but rather for "unhelpfulness" - which is something I consider scummy. In day2, he similarly conveniently chose two easy picks: Twomz and Pooky.

This seems wrong on a couple counts. I will try to be succinct.

1.) The people you think are pro-town (call them A's) may not be pro-town
2.) The A's might be (and have a good chance to be) wrong about others

There are two completely separate levels of reasoning you are trying to work off of. Firstly, that your read on A's is correct, and secondly, that the A's are correct in who

they

think are townies and scum. This is a large game with quite a lot of very tricksy players, and I certainly expect that

at least

one scum is somebody I consider to be very pro-town right now, and that

at least

one person I think is scummy is is town. If you make for this allowance in

all

players (even if you only consider the room for error +1/-1 for each player), it is entirely possible that the A's errors are who you are defending/attacking based off of their opinions.

That still came off as somewhat convoluted, but it should be understandable.

As for the latest happenings, I am fairly pleased with Lowell's entrance into the game, and it's nice to see a different angle on things I have already seen and thought about before. I am still neutral on Pooky, I don't feel like I am getting a good read off of his latest posts. His last post made me roll my eyes, as:

I'm curious Glork, did my post strike you as a post designed to save my own hide?

... was then

followed

by a post which seemed designed to save his own hide. Of course, I would expect both scum and townspeople to "try and save their own hide" if they could, but his post seems to go over the top.

[Dead Rikimaru]

I won't be able to finish my report in time for the deadline.
I ended making something a bit different that I'd rather not explain now but won't be ready until the deadline.
This day is almost over and my opinion won't change a lot anyway. I'd rather do something more helpful for the next day.
Tomorrow I will make a report on all players on the list of execution (at this point of day 2 this is the information that counts anyway).

[Yosarian2]

Yosarian

... In 872 he links to games in which he's scum, saying he had forgotten to do so until then. Something about this action seems too desperate, almost begging someone to absolve him and say "oh, you're right, you're playing differently this time."

...did you miss the part where Glork and someone else (I forget who offhand) has specificially asked for that? The King wanted to see some games where I was scum, so I went back and found some. Are you seriously going to try to say that I'm scummy for answering a question the king asked me?

In 877 he wants people to answer his questions. Yeah this could be what it looks like (scumhunting), but it could be something worse (diversionhunting).

It was not so much hunting for scum today; it's an attempt to actually get some information out of todays lynch, so we might hopefully have something solid to go by in the future.

[Yosarian2]

Gut? I'm tempted to call "Glorkdar" on this one, but I'm not

that

sure that you're scum. If I were at the point where I'd be guaranteeing that my angry little Glorkdar had settled on you, you'd have been executed weeks ago.

I'm going on gut here myself, as I don't actaully know the alignment of anyone but myself, but at this point almost all of your "gut" moves have seemed to me to be in the wrong direction. You've went after basically all the high-profile players except PJ today, and without any decent reasons for any of them. I don't know if you've just psyched yourself out here somehow and are unwilling to admit you were wrong, or if you're scum who's just trying to fake Glork-dar, but either way your play today has not been what I'm used to seeing from you.

[spectrumvoid]

Gah. I had a power outrage yesterday while I was posting.

I won't discuss the kingmaker strat bit that Lowell brought up since I don't think I'm experienced/smart enough to have anything worth saying.

About Mert:
I'm not sure if someone has pointed this out, but Mert has kinda gone missing in all his games, and he's stated that he won't be coming back. Unless I missed it, I don't think we've gotten a replacement for him, so no one will answer the attacks against him.

I'm kinda neutral about this, and here's why:
1) This is pure strat without taking Mert's possible scumminess into account, but should we be lynching someone who won't respond? I think lynching someone else might give us info for tomorrow.

2) Again, pure strat.
We haven't managed to get a replacement for Mert yet. And if we get one, will the replacement just pop up and get lynched? It's also tough to find replacements for a 40+ page game I think, and it's unfair for the newbie to defend himself. With that in mind, I'd say we lynch Mert purely to get rid of dead weight.

I haven't really decided which option I favour, but I thought I'd at least post my thoughts about it. Of course, both are void if 1) if we get a replacement soon (unlikely) 2) If there's someone more scummy on the LOE.

About LL: I think I've understood LL's logic, and while I disagree with it, I think it's more of a difference in opinion rather than something that is a scumtell. However, I disagree with what someone said about the thinking more people are townie = town tell bit. Thinking more people are townie could also = lousy scumdar, which may be a scum/town tell.

About Lowell: No handle yet on Lowell, but there was some interesting analysis there that I didn't think about. What do you mean by the meta-game in a scummy way bit? Considering I generally dislike meta-gaming unless there is a very good reason for doing so.

From here on, it's going to get a little confusing. Here's why: I don't want either Yos or Pooky to get executed, but I don't have a better candidate to recommend. Pooky first: he came back after being inactive. He was inactive across mafiascum.net, I did a quick check, so he wasn't lurker-scum. I don't see anything wrong with Pooky reviving himself here, considering he was under pressure to do so. I agree that this is a completely different situation from bird (whom I'm neutral about and I've explained why earlier), since it's been some time since day 2 started.

About Yos
The king seems to be banging on Yos a lot. He accuses Yos, but as yet I haven't seen a reason for why the king is doing so. King claimed that he will attempt to be more coherent and actually posts reasons, but they haven't appeared yet, though he's posted since then. It smells a lot like an attempt by the king to frame yos, since Yos has nothing concrete to defend against. I feel that the king could be deliberately not posting reasons hoping for someone (like lowell) to fill in the gaps. I also think that yos response to lowell's reasons are satisfactory.

I think we're missing a few people. What happened to phoebus? I remember voting him, but I completely forgot he's even in till I read lowell's 1013.

[pablito]

So of 22 alive - these following have not yet made a significant post since the deadline. Three posted though, two just to check-in and the other at least let us know that there was a post coming, even if not today.

That least eight who haven't posted since the placement of the deadline.

And I think we definitely need to hear more from at least four of them if not more.

With three and a half days left, we need to tie up some loose ends and have more people contribute significantly.

bird1111
CrashTextDummie
Dead Rikimaru - made a promise to post during next day at the least.
Der Hammer (rep. Vaughn)
Fritzler
Mert
Nightfall (rep. UberTimmy) - checkin post only
Nightson (rep. Vikingfan)
Phoebus
Samus (rep. Twomz) - checkin post only
StallingChamp (rep. ChannelDelibird)

[Glork]

Bird111 has already requested replacement. And a replacement for Mert is being sought. But yeah, I'd like to seee something fairly significant from the others before I end the day.

[BrianMcQueso]

KaleiÐoscøpe

replaces bird1111. Welcome to Kingmaker!

I am hesitant to replace Mert, as I'd hate to find a replacement come in, do a tremendous amount of reading, and be executed the next (real-life) day. If the town believes it is important enough to have Mert's replacement in to defend himself before today's execution, I will do so. Otherwise, I'd prefer to replace Mert overnight, assuming he is still living by tomorrow morning.

[MrBuddyLee]

I think Mert would be a bad execution today. He posted a lot and it most all made good sense. Even though he's disappeared, I see no reason to kill a player who had the incentive to provide pro-town insight.

Mert would probably be capable of the same pro-town insight as scum, but I think the fact he posted well should keep him from being killed today.

There are plenty of slackers and ne'er-do-wells I think are better targets. I am against a Pooky lynch today, a Yos lynch today, a pablito lynch today. I don't think killing any of them would yield significant additional info on other players, and I think each will be able to be gauged by their words in the days to come. I'd rather kill someone currently scummy who we'll have trouble getting a read on later because they don't say much. Pooky pabs Yos just havent crossed the threshhold for me yet, and I'd rather we not off them today.

[Glork]

Meh...

Remove Mert from the execution list

. Though 4-5 people would like to see him executed, I really don't agree with (or even fully understand, still) the reasons for executing him. I pretty much put him on the execution list to cater to the wishes of the people, since he had the most votes, but I just don't see myself doing it today.

[Dead Rikimaru]

Glork, who IS at the execution list at the moment?
Is it Pooky and Yosarian only?

[Glork]

Yep.

[spectrumvoid]

Oh no. I always get confused when nightson and nightfall are in the same game.

I disagree with both targets on the execution list, for above stated reasons.

[KaleiÐoscøpe]

Hello everyone, i'm replacing bird1111. Busy reading the thread, where I just finished reading Day 1. here's what i wrote down so far:

Suspicions
Carboardbox: mainly for his behaviour of day 1, giving up so early so he shouldn't give a reasonable defense for his actions. Later, when people say it might be a newbie mistake, he's acting like a proud player.
PJ: trying to convince everyone that he's town during his first day, when he was the king (also executing a townie, but that cannot really be blamed on him all alone. Still, Rosso believed PJ was scum when he came in, which is worth noticing. Then he again, Rosso made no sense, at all. I'm leaving this in the middle).

Worth noting:
Pablito --> Glork
MoS early showing who he trusts, which could be handy at some day.
What the hell is IGMEOY?

Which made me LOL:

Scum are 67% more likely to apologize for their inactivity.

82% of all statistics are made up.

I know it's not much, but i'm usually not that lengthy and... my head hurts

[Zindaras]

I've Got My Eye On You.

[KaleiÐoscøpe]

I've Got My Eye On You.

Ah, right

[KaleiÐoscøpe]

Well,

readed everything now

Scratch that, i've started to skim after 2 hours of reading... I've been busy 3 hours total, just for this game. I can say Bird1111 didn't leave me with a very good replacement spot, considering his sudden switch at the start at day 2. I can seriously say that I even would suspect myself if I didn't knew I was town.

Suspicion list²:
Pablito (mainly because he's agreeing more and more with Glork, which I find a very uncomfortable way of play (not that I suspect Glork, but the play itself)
Cardboardbox (For reasons stated in my previous post)
Pooky (for his actions on early day 2, then continue to lurk to sway off suspicion again. He returned with a reasonable post, but he has to convince me just yet)

To a lesser extent:
Fritzler (For his really odd play. I don't know if he usually does so, but it annoys me quite a bit)
Phoebus (Everytime he pops up, he makes me feel he's scum, but when others reply to it and he replys back, he looks more like town to me)
PJ (His D1 play still doesn't sit me well, especially since he moreover executed Rosso over suspects he had longer in mind. Although it could've been more a pressured paranoia victem)
Lurkers

For the record: i'm not really pro for a Yosarain2 execution, but that's mainly on gut feelings. I'm leaving the decision in the hands of our King.

That's all for now. Going to take a break now. If anyone has any questions towards me, just let me know.

[petroleumjelly]

It's raining replacements. *ducks*

In any case, I am noticing a distinct trend in this game. Instead of advocating for executions, people seem to be tending towards saying things like "I disagree with an execution on X". I know I've done the same for several times, but those types of things really do muddy the waters when it comes down to making a decision at the end of the day. I still think people

should

say who they don't want executed, but they should definitely advocate one or two players they

want

executed at the same time. Or at the very least, show a preference for executions (for example: "I don't want either X or Y executed, but of the two, I would rather X be executed"). I still don't believe everybody has even talked about Glork's original LoE yet, which I definitely thought (and still think) was/is a good idea, even if all four of those players are no longer on his LoE.

A few questions for Scope:

1.) What do you think of LuckayLuck?
2.) What do you think of Glork?
3.) What do you think of MrBuddyLee?
4.) What do you think of Zindaras?

I am only narrowing down on these four players, since they have all been fairly active posters with opinions in the open, so they should not be difficult to give an opinion on, seeing as they should be people that have stuck in your mind even after only one read-through.

[KaleiÐoscøpe]

[quote=PJ]1.) What do you think of LuckayLuck?[/quote]Undecided at the moment. I'm getting the feeling when i'm reading his posts that he's also trying to look good in front of the town, although most of his posts make sense. He has yet to convince me of his townieship, but I'm not having the feeling his plain scum just yet.[quote=PJ]2.) What do you think of Glork?[/quote]I think his play is a bit off, especially during day 1. The way he presented his way as king during day 2 doesn't make me complain just yet, but i'm curious how he will act after he isn't king anymore and after he executed someone. For now, undecided.[quote=PJ]3.) What do you think of MrBuddyLee?[/quote]Although I don't like his play that much, i'm leaning towards town. I've got no real evidence for this, it's mainly a gut feeling.[quote=PJ]4.) What do you think of Zindaras?[/quote]Town for now. He hasn't made my scumdetector go wild just yet. he hasn't been overagressive and has just been calling out opinions of others.

Hope that pleases you just yet

[KaleiÐoscøpe]

Apparantly, I suck at quote tags...

:: mumbles something about the " tags ::

[petroleumjelly]

Thanks. By the way, tags for quotes are (note that there should be no actual spaces when you do a quote):

[quote = "Name of player" ]Quote needing to be quoted.[/quote]

[KaleiÐoscøpe]

I know... i've been used to do otherwise on other boards

[CrashTextDummie]

I want neither Pooky nor Yos to be executed. Pooks posting a huge analysis resonates with my townie cord, because I've seen him make an effort when threatened to be lynched as town before. The analysis itself is more or less what I'd expect from a townie. I didn't register any malicious twisting of facts or other related shenanigans, and while I don't agree with all of it, that doesn't make me want to see him dead.

As for Yos, I just don't see a good enough case against him to warrant an execution.

I would fully support executing the following people at this point:
- StallingChamp. Although Zindaras disagrees, his contradiction

was

scummy to me, and he has proven himself to be utterly useless ever since. His predecessor ChannelDelibird wasn't as bad, but looking over his posts, I'm not too fond of him either.
- Twomz. Reasons stated before. Prominent member of the bird wagon, piggybacked onto Fritzler, used Burden of Proof, dropped off the face of the earth. The fact that his replacement is taking forever to drop by isn't exactly reassuring either.

If you want me to comment on anything else before the deadline hits, make it snappy.

[Zindaras]

Yeah, that's an annoying thing to get used to.

By the way, this is a great tool for taking a look at a specific player's posts in thread. It's a great tool.

I wanted to post this in the morning, but I forgot a bit. I don't think Pooky is a good execution. I've already expressed my suspicions regarding Yos, so I'd like to go with him for today.

Unvote: Mert, Vote: Yosarian2

.

Pooky and Phoebus

must

contribute tomorrow though. Same goes for the others who said that they would.