Jack of All Trades Mafia -- OVER!

[Coron]

Seriously guys we have enough on mathcam for a lynch, the lack of a lynch by this point might even been seen as further evidence of him being scum(though weak evidence admittedly).

We are not going to get a better lynch than this unless a doc claims a guilty.

[Coron]

*Cop

[Uraj45]

Coron. . .when you're right, you're right. I'm just reluctant for some reason. . .can't really explain why.

vote mathcam

[Thok]

Looking over some stuff, some thoughts about things

I wonder if bluemonick/his office was the office destroyer. That would explain the lack of office destruction after the first night.

Looking over lordy's early comments about spamwise, it sure does seem that lordy was coppish, specifically with a guilty investigation on spamwise. That's theoretically more evidence against mathcam.

I also don't like how mathcam started by pushing the "we should consider bluemoncik's dying words" idea, especially given bluemonick's comments in 489 "I got answers. Line them up.", which just screams that bluemonick realized that it was time to mess with our heads.

Also, there's the whole spamwise/viper interaction from most of day 1 that everybody's seemed to have forgotten.

So in other words, still happy with my vote.

[Yosarian2]

Yeah; I don't see any reason to unvote Mathcam. I basically believe his claim, but that dosn't make him any less scummy; in fact, roleswitcher's not an office I want to see in the hands of someone I'm suspicious of. In any case, MMOD should be able to just put someone else in that office after we lynch him anyway, the town won't lose that role.

[Fuldu]

As things stand, I'm in favor of a mathcam lynch, but I'd like to hear from armlx or his replacement first, just to clarify. If people think that that really isn't necessary, they might convince me to move my vote before that happens, but for now it won't be.

[mathcam]

Any less scummy? What made me scummy in the first place? If it's that there was no kill the night I was blocked, then okay, I have no defense against this. Play the odds. Of it it's because I'm the only one desperate enough for a lynch to happen that he's willing to be the lynchee. This is also fine. But let's not pretend that it's because of something read into my posts or strategy for the day (Really? You're bringing up bluemonick again?).

Cam

[Yosarian2]

Except that several of us thought you were looking scummy even before the roleblocker claim, mathcam. I've had a bad vibe about your posts for much of the game.

[mystery meat of doom]

Well, anybody want to be switched tonight?

[Yaw]

Vote Count:

mathcam (5): Coron, Yosarian2, Save The Dragons, Thok, Uraj45
MrBuddyLee (2): Quagmire, Mastermind of Sin
Fuldu (1): PookyTheMagicalBear
Uraj45 (1): MrBuddyLee
Oberon (1): Fuldu
PookyTheMagicalBear (1): Oberon
Mastermind of Sin (1): pablito
pablito (1): mathcam

Not Voting: mystery meat of doom, spectrumvoid

8 to lynch

pablito replaces armlx. The vote count has been fixed to reflect the new replacements.

[pablito]

unvote: MoS

I'm fairly confused about this all. If anyone can point to significant events, significant questions I need to answer or significant actions I need to take right now, let me know.

I'll try to read through the entire game, but I don't know if I can be bothered to do so, so I'll at least read since beginning of D4.

[Yosarian2]

Well, anybody want to be switched tonight?

(shrug) As I said before, I've got no role at the moment. So, if no one else wants to be, sure, we could use me to find out what's in some of those empty offices.

[pablito]

First impressions:

reading D4 is tedious work.

I tend to confuse passionate posting styles with pro-town behavior. There's heaps of it with MBL and Ibby. Hell if I know if they're pro-town or anti-town, but I can't help but think they're pro-town because of it.

Things that immediately popped up for me:

Fuldu - somewhere he said that he wanted to be right about picking scumbags. I don't like that language. I'll have to find that quote sometime. Might not even have been him. I forgot where it was and can't find it again.

Pooky - I generally have no read on Pooky ever. Very interesting to read the interactions he has with others though. Also his scum+vig office theory smelled bad.

Ibby - no read, but I don't agree with armlx's suspicions on her based on the office. Nonetheless, armlx had unvoted when he realized that alignment and office were independent.

Uraj - I find him pro-town by the way he argues.

spectrum - I find her jabs to be suspicious. I know she replaced into the game, but it seems that her vote choices are very isolated and in the moment. Considering that it was in D4 when she made those votes, I'm curious as to what information she has gleaned from previous days and how it affects her suspicions. Also, she's pushing the "please replace these people" thing way too much. Almost as if she's taking on the duty of needing to do it.

StD/Max - I keep hearing Max was suspicious and StD doesn't seem to look extremely pro-town either. But I'd have to get more information because my feeling on everyone seems to be gut.

mathcam - I find the N1 roleblock to be significant information. I suppose it could explain lesser kills N1, but it's not conclusive evidence. But it appears that lingering suspicion combined with exhaustion from the crashes has brought us to mathcam quite quickly. I can confirm that mathcam is the office-switcher and that armlx performed that action during last night. Not sure why armlx switched himself with mathcam, but as we all know now Quinn is a vanilla and Kay is a office-switcher. Also, I highly believe that there are two or more office-switchers based on my information and that armlx knew of it as well.

Sorry, let me answer your question directly. I'm only answering for my role - I can't speak for MMoD.

I cannot blow up offices.
I don't know what happens if my target moves. I'm sure Yaw has an intricate ruleset designed to handle these scenarios.
I think this has already been answered by Uraj moving himself.

This information is all accurate.

[pablito]

Just to get things straight, N3 was the only night that MMoD failed to send in a night choice?

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Pablito

Please highlight one of Uraj's posts that you believe indicate that he is protown from methodoloy of argumentation as you have stated and say why it does indicate so.

[pablito]

Later. I'm tired of reading and I can't remember offhand where that post was. It was more of a general feeling than a specific post.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Like what caused you to have this feeling? Is it a gut instinct?

[pablito]

likely. I just remember through my D4 read-through that I was only feeling Ibby and MBL was pro-town, so I thought I should expand my thoughts on others who might be pro-town. The next person that pinged pro-town during D4 was Uraj, but it wasn't until I was half-way through the read. Some post started it up and I haven't felt he was extremely anti-town since then. May have just been that I liked the way he approached things, it probably wasn't necessarily about what he specifically said - because I specifically do not remember who he was pushing as his suspect or as pro-town during that post. The only person whose suspects and pro-town inklings I made an effort to remember were from MBL - but even then, I remember that some of his efforts were too premature and that some of his moves were more to warn people about good or bad moves and that I did not always agree with his stance - but the way MBL made his moves felt pro-town to me.

However, it is important to note that my read-through consists solely of D4 so anything from before then would be lost on me.

[mystery meat of doom]

Yes, I did miss the deadline for night 3.

[Thok]

Bump. Why isn't mathcam dead?

[pablito]

I don't know, but for some reason armlx was willing to trust mathcam with the office-switcher role - so that means that armlx thought mathcam was pro-town, right?

[pablito]

Finally, an analysis on Uraj45.

I just put up all of his posts in isolation. I couldn't be arsed to read them in context anymore.

Uraj 4- I like his analysis on Ibby and MBL - not necessarily because of content but because how he says it. Yeah, weak.

Uraj 5 - I liked this post because I agreed that armlx said something that really wasn't up to speed.

Uraj 6 - I liked it because I was suspicious of spectrum at that time in the read through.

I liked how Uraj kept on pushing spectrum throughout up to post 13.

I must admit that leaving the vote on MBL because of inertia was a really wrong idea though. That's the first thing that I saw that was wrong with Uraj.

Wait, asking for an unretractable deadline? what was that for. I retract my trust of Uraj now. How is that ever a pro-town move?

Nonetheless, I think I have to agree that the mathcam block on N1 is the best evidence to go on. I'd have to read through some stuff to make sure it's a good move, but I don't see much reason for me to not vote mathcam in the near future.

[Thok]

I don't know, but for some reason armlx was willing to trust mathcam with the office-switcher role - so that means that armlx thought mathcam was pro-town, right?

This argument only works if we have reason to think that armlx is protown/if we trust his scumdar. You'll notice I don't really think you/armlx is likely protown either.

Moreover the argument could be applied the other way; protown mathcam should believe that armlx is protown (no reason for antitown armlx to give that office up), and mathcam has already showed his willingness to vote armlx today.

[Fuldu]

I'm somewhat troubled with the whole array of role-swap possibilities in the arguments regarding mathcam. Since my recent suspicions against mathcam were based mostly on an array of mistakes and odd information that suggested that he was lying about his role, and that has proven (well, not proven, but as close as can be determined at this point) not to be the case, would one of his would-be lynchers like to try to convince me? Thok's recent argument about why mathcam ought to trust armlx/pablito is certainly a step in the right direction.

[Coron]

Night 1:
1 death
Mathcam is blocked
Night 2:
3 deaths
Mathcam is not blocked

Unless you wish me to believe that there are more protown nightkillers than scum, we are missing at least one Night 1 death. There are of course many reasons to miss a death at night, but this increases the likelyhood dramatically of mathcam being scum.

Also, I believe I have also presented before and many other people have presented before arguements that seem to indicate Mathcam's scumminess.