Kingmaker II-Game Over

[spectrumvoid]

I have a couple of problems with this post specifically.

Pooky: Hasn't contributed a whole lot, but his contribution isn't that bad either, and has shown pretty much no interest in scumhunting, thinking he's likely scum.

Yosarian2: Has contributed a good deal, but hasn't shown a whole lot of interest in scumhunting, leaning slightly towards scum

MBL: Has contributed a lot and has clearly been interested in scumhunted, looks very protown to me

What do you define as scum-hunting? It sounds more like an attempt to accuse them of being scummy for not posting enough... in which case there are other people who are guilty for that.

[spectrumvoid]

Pooky seems to have disappeared. I have him pegged as missing in a couple of other games.

[Phoebus]

Do not patronise me, Glork.

The continued interruptions with the site do nothing to help my train of thought about this game.

You are allowed to call it laziness but as far as I'm concerned, I skim the posts to see if anything is addressed to me and I shall respond to it until further notice.
Zindaras said that "He asked you a question" which led me to believe that yos had directed one specifically at me and I don't usually miss those.
Seeing as this was not the case and seeing as thanks to your pointing them out, I now know the questions, my stand on it was summarised pertinently by my first post since the latest interruption.

Kill anyone. I don't care.

I am almost tempted to volunteer to put myself out of my misery but given that the fag end of this day has spanned two interruptions, I'd decided that I would contribute something on the next game day. If that is acceptable, that would be great because I'm not someone who opts out of a game for trivial reasons.
Currently, however, I just can't be arsed.
Tomorrow - after more results. Sure.

If you or any other players have a problem with this, or if the mod is concerned with this sort of attitude for the remainder of today, please do what you seem fit.

Zindaras: Rot op!

[Zindaras]

Kill anyone. I don't care.

Well, at least it's an answer...

I am almost tempted to volunteer to put myself out of my misery but given that the fag end of this day has spanned two interruptions, I'd decided that I would contribute something on the next game day. If that is acceptable, that would be great because I'm not someone who opts out of a game for trivial reasons.
Currently, however, I just can't be arsed.
Tomorrow - after more results. Sure.

If you or any other players have a problem with this, or if the mod is concerned with this sort of attitude for the remainder of today, please do what you seem fit.

I don't like it at all, but I'm not against letting it slide. I will be pushing for executing you tomorrow if you don't contribute, though.

Zindaras: Rot op!

Ik hou ook van jou.

cardb0ardb0x
CrashTextDummie
Dead Rikimaru
Der Hammer (rep. Vaughn)
Nightson (rep. Vikingfan)
PookyTheMagicalBear
StallingChamp (rep. ChannelDelibird)
Twomz
UberTimmy

That's the list of people who haven't posted yet post-crash We need prods on these guys. Are they even posting? There are two others:

Mert (has promised to get back into the game, but has not contributed content)
spectrumvoid (unless I'm missing something, she hasn't answered Yos's questions yet)

[Zindaras]

EBWOP:

Unvote: Phoebus

I forgot to do that.

[Phoebus]

Ik hou ook van jou.

[Zindaras]

*laughs*

That joke was worthy.

[Nightson]

Life is busy and I need to reread if I'm to offer anything useful. I'll post when I get the time but I don't know when that will be.

[Yosarian2]

The continued interruptions with the site do nothing to help my train of thought about this game.

You are allowed to call it laziness but as far as I'm concerned, I skim the posts to see if anything is addressed to me and I shall respond to it until further notice.
Zindaras said that "He asked you a question" which led me to believe that yos had directed one specifically at me and I don't usually miss those.
Seeing as this was not the case and seeing as thanks to your pointing them out, I now know the questions, my stand on it was summarised pertinently by my first post since the latest interruption.


...

Kill anyone. I don't care.
I am almost tempted to volunteer to put myself out of my misery but given that the fag end of this day has spanned two interruptions, I'd decided that I would contribute something on the next game day. If that is acceptable, that would be great because I'm not someone who opts out of a game for trivial reasons.

Normally, I'd have some sympathy for this, as I think most of us feel kind of the same way after those interuptions, but you didn't contribute much of value before the crashes either. That's why I wanted you executed back on day 1, was because you hadn't done anything relevent except for some blind logicless bandwagoning, and even before the crashes you didn't do much at all on day 2 either.

You've just been useless for most of the game, and your few posts have generally managed to be both useless and hostile/agressive, which is a weird and scummy looking combination. Glork, is there any reason this guy isn't on your LOE?

[LuckayLuck]

Move Phoebus to the list of people that I specifically do NOT want executed.

[BrianMcQueso]

The following people have not posted since I returned:

cardb0ardb0x
CrashTextDummie
Dead Rikimaru

Der Hammer
MrBuddyLee

PookyTheMagicalBear

StallingChamp

Twomz
UberTimmy

Prods are being sent, and have 24 hours to post in the thread. Vote count will be coming after I'm done prodding.

[BrianMcQueso]

Well, it looks like you guys really deserve a vote count, it's been 8 or so pages since the last one!

VOTE COUNT

King Glork's List of Execution: PookyTheMagicalBear, Yosarian2, MrBuddyLee, Pablito

LuckayLuck (0): bird, ubertimmy
bird1111 (3): Twomz, PookyTheMagicalBear
cardb0ardb0x (0):
CrashTextDummie (2): petroleumjelly, StallingChamp, Twomz, UberTimmy
Dead Rikimaru (1): pablito
Der Hammer (0):
Fritzler (2):
Mastermind of Sin (1):
Mert (3): Twomz, PookyTheMagicalBear
MrBuddyLee (2+K): UberTimmy, Fritzler, CrashTextDummie, Mert, Dead Rikimaru
Nightson (0): pablito, MrBuddyLee
pablito (3+K): Mert
petroleumjelly (1): PookyTheMagicalBear, bird, ubertimmy
Phoebus (0): bird1111, pablito, Yosarian
PookyTheMagicalBear (4+K):
spectrumvoid (1): StallingChamp, ubertimmy
StallingChamp (2): Pooky, Fritzler, MOS
Twomz (4):
UberTimmy (3):
Yosarian2 (2+K): Twomz
Zindaras (0): Yosarian2, MrBuddyLee, Mert, spectrumvoid, CrashTextDummie

I'll start looking for replacements now, as there's a few people that have been prodded a couple times already.

[Glork]

You've just been useless for most of the game, and your few posts have generally managed to be both useless and hostile/agressive, which is a weird and scummy looking combination. Glork, is there any reason this guy isn't on your LOE?

Believe it or not, I actually think he's town right now. Completely intangible reasons; it's just what experience and instincts are telling me. I just wanted him to contribute a bit more, much like MoS.

[StallingChamp]

Uhh...yeah, i'm here. To be honest, I forgot about this post-chrashes, so i got some catching up to do.

Unvote: All

for now while i catch up.

[MrBuddyLee]

I'm playing.

[pablito]

Don't forget to comment on me since I'm on the LoE too, that is if you're answering Yos' questions.

[Zindaras]

Wasn't Mert on the LoE as well? If he's not, he really should be.

[Der Hammer]

Ok I am back, but far to busy to post now. Its now essay season at uni and I wont be able to give a decent opinion on anything until at least next week. Sorry but these crashes have not been kind.

[pablito]

Here's a MBL v Glork analysis from pages 29-30 that I kept on referencing.

MrBuddyLee: my read is that he is a strong insightful player, I am leaning strongly townie.

MBL is reading "slightly townie" upon my read

I don't see that anything's happened in the interim other than Glork put me on his execution list. What's with the significant change of opinion, Luckay? This could be another example of what I pointed out, you trying to go with the flow so as to not piss off the King or other influential players.

This exhibits assertive pro-town curiosity. Then again, any examples of “pro-town curiosity” from MBL after he brought up that argument should be taken with a grain of salt. If someone points to a pro-town tell and then behaves in that manner, it can no longer be a pro-town tell.

Regarding my changes in suspicions: You, MBL, obviously piqued my interest towards the end of D1. You grilled me on why I didn't comment on Mert during my re-read and insisted that it was significant, which piqued my interest. I left of Phoebus mainly because I wanted to focus my own attention to where my highest personal suspicions were. Interestingly enough, Phoebus hardly picked up any attention D2. It makes me think that the wagon against him D1 was nothing but steam, and that Phoebus is probably pro-town. I don't even know why you're commenting on Bird1111. I said that he didn't really give me much either way. I never felt the wagon on him earlier. I didn't find his participation scummy. Thus, I didn't vote/suspect him. Is this... a bad thing? Regarding ChannelDelibird: I can't even remember what piqued me on him. I think I included him because he was the only person on PJ's list (at the time of my analysis) I wasn't opposed to lynching.



One thing makes me kinda curious, MBL. Suppose you were king, and you were going to execute one person of this PJ/Glork/Pablito group you seem to think you've found. Could you give sortof a "List of Suspicions" of the three of us? If you had to place a meaningful vote or make an execution now, how would you separate the three of us?
Consider this a "homework assignment" for you.

Also, have you been in any mountainous games other than this and Himalayan? I thought I saw something that piqued my interest, but I want to cross-reference before jumping to a possibly-erroneous concluison.

I don’t get why Glork points out the PJ-Glork-Pablito triad and what purpose his homework assignment served. Considering that I was the only one that Glork had currently suspected, I think that Glork was trying to gauge if MBL wanted me executed. I don’t think that question was the proper way to ask such a thing. And I think that the answer was fairly clear before the question was asked. MBL’s response explicitly stated that he found me the most scummy at that time.

Glork then pretty much makes it clear he suspects MBL the most because of his response and is just gauging scum pards.

I made that long post because the way yesterday's lynch went down didn't feel right to me, pablito's been downright bizarre, and it feels like Glork's throwing darts at a board as king today. I started by going back over PJ's posts from the end of D1 and more info kept turning up that appeared relevant. I'm not sure all three are scum or are connected. I just want to spit thoughts out in case over time they congeal into a big picture. Some of this evidence, for example, jives with the "bird's scumpartners kicked him in the nuts overnight" theory, because PJ and pablito were the primary nutkickers of bird end of yesterday.

This seems stream-of-consciousness and it makes me feel that MBL is just throwing out ideas. There is nothing conclusive in here. No matter what, it’s great maneuvering by MBL whether pro-town or anti-town.

PJ didn't have a choice about his kingship, and in fact, didn't approach it with his usual vigor. Glork explicitly stated that he wished he HADN'T been chosen king, so he's not willingly in the spotlight. And you--if you're scum you clearly made a choice at the start of the game to WIFOM this exact topic, which means you'd push this exact argument sooner or later. "I'm high profile, which scum wouldn't be."

There's no cop to fear, so high profile is not a terrible thing. Clearly it worked to your advantage last night, as you got the execution you and only you lobbied for.

These statements are all accurate. I’d like to point out the use of “night” and “execution” together. Because whenever I read this statement I always keep thinking…”and that’s why you’re still alive today”.

Also my statements always tend to be WIFOM and it’s pretty clear that from the beginning of the game, I’d push WIFOM statements. That’s enough reason to want to execute me despite it not being grounded in logical suspicion.

The next argument between Glork and MBL is about using the word “assassin”. It’s an intriguing “tell”, but I choose to not value it.

The rest is actually PJ v. MBL and both of them have grounded arguments, so basically it would be me saying “yeah, MBL has a point here, but I don’t agree with it, but it feels like he’s coming from a pro-town stance.”

You accuse PJ of failing to get the info necessary for a scum lynch. I don't understand how this applies. PJ asked for help. He made people well aware of his execution list/thoughts. Every player was well aware of the deadline and of PJ's requests. It is not PJ's job to force people to get online and post. You simply cannot apply the same kind of pressure near deadline in a Kingmaker game that you could apply in other situations. What should PJ have done, start putting random lurkers on his LoE? Go seek out people IRL and demand that they get on MafiaScum and post? It's true that PJ lynched a townie. Ultimately, a good portion of that responsibility rests on PJ. (Note, I disagree with you that the King bears the sole burden of a missed execution -- especially if we're talking D1/D2 and we have less info to go on. I find that sentiment to be quite scummy, and I'll note that part of the push by scumbags against TSS -- something that ultimately lead to BroomheadScum executing TSS -- was because he lynched a townie D1.) But I think he did what he could given what he had to work with. Because really... he had very little, relatively speaking, with which to work.

I wholeheartedly agree with this post and I think that I’ve gone further than this stance earlier by saying that the town bears most of the burden for a bad execution.

After that post, it seems that the big three of MBL Glork and PJ don’t address each other as much.

So basically my re-read on the MBL v. Glork really doesn’t enlighten me or anything like that. But there, it’s done.

Overall, MBL is pushing and that's a good thing. I can't be convinced he's scum because I think that his arguments come from him and not a scum viewpoint. That either means MBL is good scum and I've been blinded (a very likely case) or that he's town. But I'm more biased in finding lesser-profile mistakes from borderline-lurkers or inconsistent people. MBL's thought process seems to be consistent to me. I've found people who seem to be very inconsistent and aren't talking from a very good pro-town stance - I've pointed out those people. I might be wrong, but that's what I choose to focus on.


Oh and to respond to Zindaras about the player-by-player analysis. The reason I was questioning it was because it seemed so delayed and you were bothered by the homework assignment you were not given more than the player-by-player analysis. It wasn’t until later that you showed that you were going to do it. I don’t care if you do it in other games, but in this one, it did not seem apparent from your entry into the game that it was going to happen. That’s what tipped me off on that position.

[Zindaras]

Oh and to respond to Zindaras about the player-by-player analysis. The reason I was questioning it was because it seemed so delayed and you were bothered by the homework assignment you were not given more than the player-by-player analysis. It wasn’t until later that you showed that you were going to do it. I don’t care if you do it in other games, but in this one, it did not seem apparent from your entry into the game that it was going to happen. That’s what tipped me off on that position.

Well, I can't really defend myself against that. Only that, well, Glork only said it would be nice if I could do a stream-of-consciousness post (and never asked me to give opinions on every player).

To be honest, the main reason why I made the big post was because, well, PJ kinda inspired me to. It appeared that the original Kingmaker was famous for some great playing, and I fantasized (as PJ did, according to him) about catching all the scum in one fell swoop.

[BrianMcQueso]

Ozymandius

replaces Dead Rikimaru. Welcome to Kingmaker!

[Ozymandius]

Somehow I managed to overlook the thing that I have just replaced into a 37 page game. It's going to take me a while to catch up. And I don't have a whole lot of time at the moment, so I'm just saying I'm here right now. I'll have somthing later.

[ubertimmy]

sorry, school's been raping me up the butt.
i need to reread, can't recall any of my suspiscions.

[CrashTextDummie]

Quote fest ahoy!

I voiced my opinion, I placed my vote. What else do you expect me to do? Come begging to the king whenever I feel a player hasn't posted enough, so he may do something about it?

Why not? I mean, it doesn't have to be begging, but you can try to bring it to the King's attention.

placing my vote = bringing it to the King's attention

What's so hard to understand about that?

It should also be noted that there's a difference between not posting at all for a while and posting every once in a while and saying nothing of susbtance in the process. It has already been proven in this game that prodding ubertimmy does not result in him posting any useful content.

Then why did you vote him? Prods nor votes were really helping.

Because his excessive lurking warranted a vote. Duh.

I place my vote where I feel it belongs. Whether or not it helps is unfortunately out of my hands.

You could not make an extensive case on PJ? I mean, really, you think PJ is scum, you vote him, but you can't make a big case on him, even if he's been arguably the most prolific player Day One?

I don't need to have an extensive case on someone in order to voice my suspicion on them. I appreciate your little fantasy about catching all the scum in one fellow swoop, but it's too ambitious for your own good. I can tell that you're wrong about at least one of the the trees you're barking up on. Right now I think you're barking up on the wrong entire forest.

It would take a colossal blunder from someone like PJ for me to nail him on Day 2 of a mountainous game. What he did was not damning, but it was enough for me to be suspicious of him at the beginning of Day 2, and I voted accordingly, in a post that was longer and more thorough than the one you keep referencing, I assure you. It was lost in the crash, so I reposted a condensed version of it. Tell me what's scummy about that.

I really hope you are joking here, but pointing out scummy posts and voting accordingly is what a pro-town player is supposed to do. You did it yourself when you declared me scummy for one post I made. If I were able to make a detailed case against someone on D2 shortly after a significant number of posts have been lost, this game would be a lot easier.

Yes, you are correct. But you need to do more than just that. Pointing out scummy posts is not enough. You need to keep focusing attention on the players, ask them questions, be inquisitive.

3/4 of the players in this game are not doing what you're asking of me. Why exactly do you single me out?

So, because Rosso was town, PJ

has

to be scum?

Because Rosso was town and executed under what I consider to be very dubious circumstances, that makes PJ more likely to be scum, yes.

I'd appreciate it if you stopped acting like I was desperately trying to get PJ executed. You're the one who pushes BS cases like your like depended on it.

I think PJ was just under a lot of pressure, from the deadline and from himself, and that made him screw up.

Please go back and look at Rosso's posts and tell me he deserved to be lynched over them. He's generally not the easiest fellow to read, but at the very least, he wasn't giving off bad vibes. At worst, you could say he was typical Rosso, which rarely tells you anything about his allignment.

PJ knows Rosso. I really can't picture pro-town PJ going over his posts at the last minute and thinking that he's more deserving of an execution than any other player in the game.

I can't comment on what SC said, since it was lost in the crash, before I got in this game, but it seems like a weak case altogether.

That's just lovely. You can't comment on what SC said (which is quite correct), but for some reason you insist that me picking up on it is hugely scummy.

The difference is that I've looked at all your other posts and found nothing in there that speaks for you.

I'm sure you went over the abundance of posts that speak for StallingChamp while you were at it. I have to say, Zindaras, you're exhibiting some extreme double standards in this game.

What made your vote on ubertimmy useful, exactly?

You're awfully fond of ubertimmy, aren't you? If my votes weren't "useful" in your opinion, I'm sure you'll agree that they weren't harmful either, correct?

You have made it perfectly clear by now that you don't agree with any of my votes, I get it. But I still haven't seen an argument for why they are scummy.

And if it's any comfort to you, I don't think yours are that hot either.

You can make cases against whoever you want to. If they are good, the King will consider them and listen to you.

I don't consider it my job to make perfect cases so that the king may pick off all the scum one by one, because I'm not dilusional. I'm trying to contribute as best as I can and I will continue to point out what I believe to be scummy actions or players along the way, whether you like it or not.

I generally don't make big big cases unless it's a good one and I am confident I have caught a scum. I can't say yet whether you're even trying to catch scum, but I can tell that your cases aren't good ones. At the very least, this makes me seriously doubt your judgement.

----------

I think I already answered Yos' questions, but I'm gonna go back and do a reread in the next couple of days anyway. I'll post my thoughts on a couple of players when I get there.

[spectrumvoid]

spectrumvoid (unless I'm missing something, she hasn't answered Yos's questions yet)

You missed the part in Yos's post where he says he knows enough about where I stand on certain players. You also missed my somewhat reorganised PBPA. I think I've aired enough of my views.

Phoebus is irritating me again. While he may not be on the LOE for today, his behaviour has generally not been pro-townish.