Kingmaker II-Game Over

[Mert]

I'm here but work has been really busy lately and I feel I'm letting this game down by not being able to dedicate the necessary time to it. I'll try and get a hold on this game again this weekend but feel it may be better for the game itself if I ask for a replacement now, rather than when we get to 80 pages or something... I'll let you know how that re-read goes and then either post asking for replacement or with my take on the game so far.

Watch this space...

[Yosarian2]

There's a huge difference between not posting and not voting. You can not vote and still contribute. You can't not post and still contribute. If someone announces they will not vote, does that make them scummier than someone who simply doesn't post?

No, not at all. Notice, though, that I first attacked MOS for that comment back on september 15, only one day after the game started, which is a little too early to go lurker-hunting.

This is the relevant quote, from Post 189:

I don't see how the way you're playing here could possibly help the town in any way, or how it could possibly find scum. Especally in a game where the town has no information roles, if you're not going to help the town find scum during the day, you're going to have to die.

Not contributing to finding scum-->Attack.

Right. I was saying that his playstyle of refusing to vote for anyone was not going to help the town find scum; votes are how we make connections between people. So yes, i was attacking him for that. If a person says they're going to act in a way that I think is not helpful to the town, of course I'm going to attack him for it.

What could the King do with your opinions? They were pretty much all "Well, he could be scum, and he could be town."

Well, that re-read and the thoughts I put down in that post helped me figure out that I wanted Phoebus executed. I don't know if they helped anyone else form an opinion or not.

Basically, the only real point you're attacking me with here that makes any sense at all is that you're basically saying I should have tried harder to hunt lurkers on day 1. Which is fair enough; I did use certain people's lack of participation in order to help draw conclusions about them, but I never really activally lurker hunted the way I sometimes do. However, that could also be said of most of the people in the town, very few people spent a lot of time lurker hunting on day 1.

[Yosarian2]

So far, the only people who have directly answered my questions are

LuckayLuck
PJ
and Zindaras.

A few others have made enough comments about the LOE that I know what they feel (like MBL, and SV) but for the most I have no idea where most people in the game stand, which means that any execution won't give us the information we'll need tommorow.

Everyone who has not done so, please answer the questions.

Everyone else needs to answer the following questions:

1. What do you think of Glork's current LOE? If you were king, what would your LOE look like?

2. If we were going to pick and execute one person on the current LOE, who would it be, and why?

We need everyone to comment on the person who gets executed and the LOE in general before any execution happens, otherwise we're never going to get any information.

[Phoebus]

Just kill someone already

[spectrumvoid]

Whoops, forgot to post in this game about my exams. Anyway, the last day is tomorrow so I'll post longish stuff tomorrow evening or so.

[Zindaras]

No, not at all. Notice, though, that I first attacked MOS for that comment back on september 15, only one day after the game started, which is a little too early to go lurker-hunting.

Ah, yes, but you know that there will be lurkers, eventually. So why attack someone over just making a minor non-contribution, when you know there'll be people who are contributing even less later on? (And you don't even do it)

Right. I was saying that his playstyle of refusing to vote for anyone was not going to help the town find scum; votes are how we make connections between people. So yes, i was attacking him for that. If a person says they're going to act in a way that I think is not helpful to the town, of course I'm going to attack him for it.

Why would votes be the only thing we use for connections? By doing that, you miss, I think, 80% or so of the connections.

Well, that re-read and the thoughts I put down in that post helped me figure out that I wanted Phoebus executed. I don't know if they helped anyone else form an opinion or not.

You were supposed to be helping the king.

Basically, the only real point you're attacking me with here that makes any sense at all is that you're basically saying I should have tried harder to hunt lurkers on day 1. Which is fair enough; I did use certain people's lack of participation in order to help draw conclusions about them, but I never really activally lurker hunted the way I sometimes do. However, that could also be said of most of the people in the town, very few people spent a lot of time lurker hunting on day 1.

I find it odd that you attack MoS for not contributing and let all the lurkers lay low.

[Zindaras]

Just kill someone already

Yos asked you a question. Answer it.

Hey Glork, are you not reading the thread or do you just not want to execute a scumbuddy?

[Glork]

I'm here-ish. We're starting final exams soon, so my posting will be significantly diminished over the next two weeks or so.

[Phoebus]

Did he now?

I'm going to say pretty please with sugar on top and ask him to repeat it.

[pablito]

Everyone else needs to answer the following questions:

1. What do you think of Glork's current LOE? If you were king, what would your LOE look like?

2. If we were going to pick and execute one person on the current LOE, who would it be, and why?

We need everyone to comment on the person who gets executed and the LOE in general before any execution happens, otherwise we're never going to get any information.

I really hate not being able to post as much in games since I no longer have a home computer and I have many projects due, but I swear that around Dec 14th or so I'll have lots of time to post.

But since Yos asked, I'll answer although I may have already given my answers.

I think the LoE sucks. I don't think Pooky's the right play for today and I don't think there's enough right now to see where his alignment's at. However if we get some posts that we can analyze on him, then he might become the right play for today. I think that some of the reason people want him gone is due to some of the lost posts and some of it has to do about what he hasn't addressed rather than what he has addressed. So perhaps it's more frustration with him that might get someone to suspect him than true suspicion.

I think that emotions are pushing the tide over on MBL more than actual analytical reasoning. I feel that the reasons that are put forth for his execution do not take into account his entire gameplay here. I feel that MBL's attacks have been genuine and the feeling I get from him (

gut

) is that he's attacking from a pro-town stance. I know that he's tried to link together PJ Glork and me, but as I've said before, that's a link that's fairly obvious and it's nothing new. I still have to read the latest Glork v. MBL posts, but from skimming, nothing was extremely eye-popping for me. But I will revoke my current position on MBL if I see something on re-read.

Yosarian's on the LoE too I think. My last stance goes for him. I posted something when I unvoted him. I don't remember what got made him get attention from me or the unvote from me.

And I'm on there too. I don't think I belong up there, but I deserve to be up there for some of my antics.

And for number 2, if it has to be someone, it might as well be me to execute because I've been on both LoEs, so if you keep putting me up there you might as well just get it done and over with. However, I think you want me to choose one of the others - so that would be Pooky. I remember during the lost posts period that I chose to vote for Pooky and Twomz but explicitly remember not voting MBL over the nut-kicker theory.

My own LoE would consist of Mert, StallingChamp, Zindaras and bird1111 just for good measure. I'd include bird1111 just because discussion on him is a good thing and it will get people talking in one way or another and I'm still unsure on his alignment. The person I'm most suspicious of is Mert. I've laid out my case before. StallingChamp too. I was very suspicious of CDB and StallingChamp has done nothing to qualm my fears. I've recently become very suspicious of Zindaras. It's the way he entered. In some way I want to think that Zindaras did not want to do a total person-by-person analysis when he came into the game. I think that he felt compelled to do it because Luckay Luck did so. I don't get a healthy feeling when I see Zindaras posts, they feel more aggressive and they extremely lack restraint. Zindaras seems to be more focused on the offensive when he has no need to do so. It just seems very awkward and I don't get why he'd be attacking so early off of just replacing in. Maybe he's trying to avoid being Rosso by continuing with pressuring others (what Rosso failed to do) or that he's trying to protect his scum buds. But there's a strong difference between Luckay Luck and Zindaras, and I don't get where Zindaras is coming from. Maybe I'm biased because they have polar opinions on me.

[pablito]

Everyone else needs to answer the following questions:

1. What do you think of Glork's current LOE? If you were king, what would your LOE look like?

2. If we were going to pick and execute one person on the current LOE, who would it be, and why?

We need everyone to comment on the person who gets executed and the LOE in general before any execution happens, otherwise we're never going to get any information.

I really hate not being able to post as much in games since I no longer have a home computer and I have many projects due, but I swear that around Dec 14th or so I'll have lots of time to post.

But since Yos asked, I'll answer although I may have already given my answers.

I think the LoE sucks. I don't think Pooky's the right play for today and I don't think there's enough right now to see where his alignment's at. However if we get some posts that we can analyze on him, then he might become the right play for today. I think that some of the reason people want him gone is due to some of the lost posts and some of it has to do about what he hasn't addressed rather than what he has addressed. So perhaps it's more frustration with him that might get someone to suspect him than true suspicion.

I think that emotions are pushing the tide over on MBL more than actual analytical reasoning. I feel that the reasons that are put forth for his execution do not take into account his entire gameplay here. I feel that MBL's attacks have been genuine and the feeling I get from him (

gut

) is that he's attacking from a pro-town stance. I know that he's tried to link together PJ Glork and me, but as I've said before, that's a link that's fairly obvious and it's nothing new. I still have to read the latest Glork v. MBL posts, but from skimming, nothing was extremely eye-popping for me. But I will revoke my current position on MBL if I see something on re-read.

Yosarian's on the LoE too I think. My last stance goes for him. I posted something when I unvoted him. I don't remember what got made him get attention from me or the unvote from me.

And I'm on there too. I don't think I belong up there, but I deserve to be up there for some of my antics.

And for number 2, if it has to be someone, it might as well be me to execute because I've been on both LoEs, so if you keep putting me up there you might as well just get it done and over with. However, I think you want me to choose one of the others - so that would be Pooky. I remember during the lost posts period that I chose to vote for Pooky and Twomz but explicitly remember not voting MBL over the nut-kicker theory.

My own LoE would consist of Mert, StallingChamp, Zindaras and bird1111 just for good measure. I'd include bird1111 just because discussion on him is a good thing and it will get people talking in one way or another and I'm still unsure on his alignment. The person I'm most suspicious of is Mert. I've laid out my case before. StallingChamp too. I was very suspicious of CDB and StallingChamp has done nothing to qualm my fears. I've recently become very suspicious of Zindaras. It's the way he entered. In some way I want to think that Zindaras did not want to do a total person-by-person analysis when he came into the game. I think that he felt compelled to do it because Luckay Luck did so. I don't get a healthy feeling when I see Zindaras posts, they feel more aggressive and they extremely lack restraint. Zindaras seems to be more focused on the offensive when he has no need to do so. It just seems very awkward and I don't get why he'd be attacking so early off of just replacing in. Maybe he's trying to avoid being Rosso by continuing with pressuring others (what Rosso failed to do) or that he's trying to protect his scum buds. But there's a strong difference between Luckay Luck and Zindaras, and I don't get where Zindaras is coming from. Maybe I'm biased because they have polar opinions on me.

[Glork]

Did he now?

I'm going to say pretty please with sugar on top and ask him to repeat it.

Yos repeated the questions in the post he made

immediately before your previous post.

My patience is wearing thin with you; you're a perfectly capable and intelligent player, and yet your laziness has prevented you from contributing anything of real significance. Pablito has quoted those questions in his response. Answer those questions.


I'll likely be making an amendment to my LoE (I read something before the last downtime that is making me re-think my position on one player, and I'm slowly revising my opinions of other players in the game), but I'd still like to hear

EVERYONE'S

opinions on those four people.

[bird1111]

Glork's LOE is Pooky, Yosarian, and MBL right? I've done a insolation read of those three, to answer Yosarian's first question, as I don't have time right now to reread and answer his second one, will do so tonight/maybe tommorow afternoon.

Pooky: Hasn't contributed a whole lot, but his contribution isn't that bad either, and has shown pretty much no interest in scumhunting, thinking he's likely scum

Yosarian2: Has contributed a good deal, but hasn't shown a whole lot of interest in scumhunting, leaning slightly towards scum

MBL: Has contributed a lot and has clearly been interested in scumhunted, looks very protown to me

[Zindaras]

I'm here-ish. We're starting final exams soon, so my posting will be significantly diminished over the next two weeks or so.

Oh, okay, I didn't know that.

[Zindaras]

I've recently become very suspicious of Zindaras. It's the way he entered. In some way I want to think that Zindaras did not want to do a total person-by-person analysis when he came into the game. I think that he felt compelled to do it because Luckay Luck did so.

*laughs*

So what you're saying is that I read the thread, then when I got to the point where LuckayLuck posted her analysis, I went back and made another re-read, this time for a Player-by-Player Analysis? Or what are you really insinuating? I'm known for making analyses like this.

I don't get a healthy feeling when I see Zindaras posts, they feel more aggressive and they extremely lack restraint. Zindaras seems to be more focused on the offensive when he has no need to do so. It just seems very awkward and I don't get why he'd be attacking so early off of just replacing in.

Use the "View all posts by user" feature and look at MBL, CTD and Yos's posts in this thread. Then come back and see why I play like I do. As for overaggression, that's part of my playstyle.

Maybe he's trying to avoid being Rosso by continuing with pressuring others (what Rosso failed to do) or that he's trying to protect his scum buds. But there's a strong difference between Luckay Luck and Zindaras, and I don't get where Zindaras is coming from. Maybe I'm biased because they have polar opinions on me.

Or maybe Luckay's playstyle and mine just aren't the same, which is why you're getting entirely different posts.


I've enjoyed the debates I've had so far, and they changed my outlook on the game quite a bit. Which is why I'm gunning mostly for Mert, currently.

[pablito]

Zind, I don't really care to respond to your latest post.

And I'm not really sure I care to bother to even re-read the latest MBL v Glork argument that I'm supposed to have read a long time ago.

Last comment...everyone please pressure the lurkers and those who haven't caught up yet. We have focused almost exclusively on those who have been entirely visible but yet through all the crashes and lags, those who don't bother to participate may easily be scum who are actively lurking. We won't know for sure until we pressure them out.

unvote: all but Mert

[pablito]

Mod, vote count please?

[Zindaras]

Zind, I don't really care to respond to your latest post.

Why not?

I do agree with your lurker thing, by the way. That's why I asked for a mass prod.

Is our mod even here?

[pablito]

Yeah, but I'm also trying to go beyond the mass prod. Once they come back, we can't let them slide back into oblivion. Chances are people will be prodded, respond "hey, I'm up for a MBL lynch and here's why: X Y Z" and no one will bother to say much else. I'm glad that Yos put up his two questions though because #2 will force people to focus on who their suspicions are instead of focusing on Glork's apparent lame-duck LoE. I'd prefer to not see anyone executed until we see a majority of answers on who people would place on their own LoE. Because it's way too easy to let everything slide right now because of the lag.

[Zindaras]

Yeah, but I'm also trying to go beyond the mass prod. Once they come back, we can't let them slide back into oblivion. Chances are people will be prodded, respond "hey, I'm up for a MBL lynch and here's why: X Y Z" and no one will bother to say much else. I'm glad that Yos put up his two questions though because #2 will force people to focus on who their suspicions are instead of focusing on Glork's apparent lame-duck LoE. I'd prefer to not see anyone executed until we see a majority of answers on who people would place on their own LoE. Because it's way too easy to let everything slide right now because of the lag.

:goodposting:

I have to admit Yos's questions are very good. Everyone should answer them. In fact, I'll go ahead and

Vote: Phoebus

and say that I'll be voting everyone who posts (content) and doesn't answer his questions.

[GlorkoS]

I approve of a Yosarian2 execution. I also approve of an MBL execution, but much less so. I do not approve of a Pooky execution...yet.

[Glork]

I'd like more insight than that, MoS. Also, don't post as GlorkoS. People will get confused.

[Yosarian2]

Care to give any actual reason for that, MOS? Or are you just still annoyed that I attacked you day 1?

[Mastermind of Sin]

Why are none of the useless people on the execution list? This is a Mountainous game ffs. My scumteam won Himalayan with the following strategy:

* lie low
* express balanced suspicions of safe targets
* keep lurkers and noncontributors around to endgame to cast suspicion on later

* kill MoS for calling everyone correctly the night before he exposes the rest of your team

And you wonder why I'm not being as helpful at pwning the scum in

this

Mountainous game?

[Mastermind of Sin]

Care to give any actual reason for that, MOS? Or are you just still annoyed that I attacked you day 1?

I don't think I was ever annoyed at you, although perhaps it was something so minor that I don't even remember it anymore. I just feel that your contributions this game have the earmark of Yoscum, so I'm putting the MoS Stamp of Approval on that part of the LOE.