Kingmaker II-Game Over

[Zindaras]

Here's the point where I begin to significantly disagree with Glork. I do not think MBL belongs on the LoE and my current thought is that MBL is town and I haven't gotten scummy vibes from him in day two.

*points at his case against MBL*

Then how do you explain the odd behaviour I outlined in my above post, which you fail to address?

I'm unsure what to think of Pooky because we haven't gotten much off of him lately, but I don't think he's the right play for today either.

Is not getting a lot off him a reason to believe he's town? I'd rather put it as a reason to believe he's scum, as he doesn't seem to be interested in catching scum at all.

I've totally forgotten why I was suspecting Yos, but some of the recent arguments on him seem to be slightly convincing me. But nonetheless, I don't see a damning case against him.

Then do a reread on him.

and whatever happened to the Twomz quasi-wagon? I thought people had strong suspicions on him but he suddenly dropped off the map. Is that because scum forgot about him or is it because we as town have failed to pressure him properly?

I'm not picking up anything (towny or scummy) regarding Twomz, so I'm waiting eagerly for him to make a nice post.

[Glork]

1) Are you MBL's scumbuddy? Have you seen the repeated dismantling of his so-called logic? You say you "haven't gotten scummy vibes from him in day two." What are your thoughts on MBL from D1? Have you gotten "pro-town vibes" from him?

2) Part of the reason I suspect Mert is because I see a very strong connection between Mert/MBL (and now Mert/Yos, as Zindie pointed out). If you take Mert/MBL out as evidence (since you think MBL is town), do you

3) Do you realize how absurd your stance on Yos is? "I forget why I suspect Yos. But I like the arguments against him. But they're not damning enough." It's like you want to diststance from him but can't bring yourself to advocate getting him killed!

4) Why are you bringing up Twomz now? Are you trying to turn attention away from you and your scumbuddies?


I have scrawled on a sheet of scrap paper the following list:
MBL
Mert
Yos
Pooky
Pablito?
CTD?
StCh?


I very firmly believe that there are multiple scum in this group. I'm guessing 6 scum in this game, and I suspect that as many as half of the scumbags are on this list.

[Glork]

(Re: Pooky)Is not getting a lot off him a reason to believe he's town? I'd rather put it as a reason to believe he's scum, as he doesn't seem to be interested in catching scum at all.

Which, I might add, is *QUITE* contrary to his early attack on me, in which he attacked me for allegedly not trying to catch scum.

[Yosarian2]

I wish I could figure out why people in most of the games I'm in right now suddenly are convinced I'm scum without being able to give any good reasons. Was I just playing wierd last month or something?

Anyway, it's rather disturbing the way Glork got all those "homework assignments" and failed to comment on any of them. I'm having second thoughts about his alignment, especally as "make a list of 5 people you think are pro-town" does not seem like something a pro-town person is likely to demand someone else do on day 2. And he neglected to answer my question about why he wanted that information.

[Zindaras]

Oh, by the way, pablito, aren't you in any way disliking how MBL's linking you to Glork and PJ?

Also, for some reason, I thought there was only 5 scum. *scratches head*

Then I think one of pablito/Dead Rikimaru/Twomz/Pooky is also scum.

Pablito's been saying he's suspicious of MBL Day 1. Here are relevant entries in my log:

Pablito votes MBL and says Dead Rikimaru may have planted suspicion regarding Pablito-Glork.
Pablito thinks MBL is arguing on the wrong level to accuse cbox.

I'm really happy to see 4 of the 5 who are my main suspects on Glork's LoE, though I would like to know why he left out spectrumvoid.

[Zindaras]

I wish I could figure out why people in most of the games I'm in right now suddenly are convinced I'm scum without being able to give any good reasons. Was I just playing wierd last month or something?

I've already stated quite a good case against you, but apparently, you see it as having no good reasons.

You defended Mert, who I view as scummy. You attacked MoS (who is very townish) in the same post. You pressured PJ to pressure others, instead of doing it yourself. I'm not getting the scumhunting vibe from you I got in Reverse.

Anyway, it's rather disturbing the way Glork got all those "homework assignments" and failed to comment on any of them. I'm having second thoughts about his alignment, especally as "make a list of 5 people you think are pro-town" does not seem like something a pro-town person is likely to demand someone else do on day 2. And he neglected to answer my question about why he wanted that information.

Your weak attempt to discredit Glork is noted. Now, onto what you're saying.

especally as "make a list of 5 people you think are pro-town" does not seem like something a pro-town person is likely to demand someone else do on day 2.

No, this is actually quite useful. Scum likes to just say people are scummy and never actually say people are town, because that limits their options in later stages. By forcing people to state who they think are town, Glork limits scum's options.

[Zindaras]

(Re: Pooky)Is not getting a lot off him a reason to believe he's town? I'd rather put it as a reason to believe he's scum, as he doesn't seem to be interested in catching scum at all.

Which, I might add, is *QUITE* contrary to his early attack on me, in which he attacked me for allegedly not trying to catch scum.

Noted.

[Yosarian2]

Yosarian2

: Another interesting case. I had three scum vibes from him, from Posts 189, 376 and 426. He defended Mert and attacked MoS. He FoSed pablito. He pressured PJ to pressure others (instead of doing it himself). He voted Phoebus. Though Glork stated he thought Yos was pro-town Day 1, he attacked Yos Day 2, an attack against Yos defended himself very awkwardly. He voted Twomz and pablito.

Care to elaborate a bit there?

Post 189:

I don't really see how trying to tie people together is a scum tell anyway; it's a perfectly reasonable way of trying to find scum.

Clearly I'm suspicious of Twomz, Vaughn, and Ameliaslay. In the future, don't expect me to be this nice about it, either. I will not go around saying "I suspect so-and-so". That's where the whole reading of my posts thing comes into play. Next time do your homework, kthnxbai.

It was not all that clear from those posts that you suspected those people, MOS. Just because I disagree with a point someone makes does not automatically mean I suspect them. And it's still not clear which one you suspect more, and your posts are certanly not going to put any pressure on any of them or get them to respond or defed themselves in any way, and it didn't even get me to take a closer look at them or anything like that, so I must say that as a scum-hunting technique, your one-liner responses without votes seems pretty worthless.

If you're not going to vote, you should at least "fos" or something, and I can't imagine why you wouldn't want to even just clearly state "I am currently suspicious Twomz". Do you really think everyone is going to sit down and pore through every one of your posts to try to get some kind of hint as to what MOS might or might not be thinking?

I don't see how the way you're playing here could possibly help the town in any way, or how it could possibly find scum. Especally in a game where the town has no information roles, if you're not going to help the town find scum during the day, you're going to have to die.

Post 189 was me pointing out, again, why MOS's plan of action was and is directly harmfull to the town. If someone does something that's bad for the town, it makes it more likely they're scum, and it also means that pro-town people should try to pressure them to act differently. I don't see why people don't seem to get that, with Glork dismissing my attack against MOS as a "metagame vote" and no one else willing to back me up to put more pressure on him. So what, exactally, is scummy about that post?

Post 376:

Ok, some quick thoughts on the people on the king's list of exectuion.

Pablito: His constant defense/buddying up to Glork is a minor scum tell, and he hasn't done much else.

Bird111: all he's done is vote Gork and Pablito for no good reason. Clearly :not helpfull: at best.

Phobus: I really can't get a good read on him at the moment. His shameless bandwagoning dosn't look good, but I'm not sure if it's a scumtell at this point. More suspicious is his refusal to contribute in any real way, with helpful comments like "still nothing to add at this point".

CDB: Don't really see anything too suspicious about him at this point.

King PJ had asked for comments about the people on his list of execution, and so I re-read all the posts of those people and posted my thoughts. More people should have done that, but they weren't. If you want to find scum, why not look at the people who weren't trying to help the king make a decision, as opposed to the few people who were?

Post 426:

Eh...with the deadline coming up, I figured I should vote for the person on the execution list I felt most suspicious of. I honestly don't have a very strong suspicion on anyone at this point, but out of the 4 people the king said he's thinking about executing, you're at the top of my list.

Basically, like I said in an earlier post, my general impression so far is that you've been mostly :nothelpfull:, and the one time you did contribute content it was to shamlessly bandwagon without good reasons.

And again, what's wrong with this post? When the king says "I'm going to execute one of these three people", every pro-town person in the game SHOULD comment on that, and say "Well, if you're going to execute A, B, or C, I'd suggest B, because....".

Now, as for your other points:

He pressured PJ to pressure others (instead of doing it himself).

I'd been trying to pressure MOS for most of the day, and it did exactally nothing. He basically ignored me, everyone else basically ignored me, and nothing changed at all, he felt absolutly no pressure to change his anti-town behavior. So yeah, I came to the conclusion that we needed to have the king start pressuring people if we were going to get anywhere. Do you disagree?

He voted Phoebus.

Yup, and I still think he's scum. What's your point?

he attacked Yos Day 2, an attack against Yos defended himself very awkwardly

I "defended myself against very awkwardly"? How so? What in my defense did you disagree with?

[Glork]

I don't understand why people think I need to be commenting on all of the "homework assignments" as they come in. I asked questions and wanted people to look at (and talk about) different things. I should not be the focus of all the discussion, regardless of whether I instigate said discussion.

Now, with regards to why I gave you that assignment: The initial question (pick three people) was because I wanted to see where you placed your "trust" (note that I use this term very lightly). I asked you an unusual question specifically to get you thinking in an unusual manner. Sometimes figuring out who you think is pro-town can lead you to find scum. I was sorta hoping you would do that; obviously it didn't happen. The reason I expanded it to 5 is because I realized that 3 wouldn't give me any info on you. When you answered 'Bird and Glork' initially, my internal reaction was "well, that's not too surprising." And then I realized that asking for 3 people isn't very controversial or revealing. If I want to get good info on you, I need to make you pick out something solid amongst the grey matter that is the "middle of the bunch." Yeah, it's easy to name one or two people you think are pro-town. But I wanted to make you look at other players, to think about who you like and who you don't like, and to pick amongst the uncertainty something -- some opinion, some significant conclusion -- that you are able and willing to share. I must say, I've been sorely disappointed that your response was effectively "well, I guess PJ too but after that it gets tough." That's not the kind of response I either expected or wanted to see. I guess that's partly why I continue to suspect you. You're still showing this unwillingness to dive down into the muck and get your hands dirty. I get this distinct nagging feeling that you're trying to be cautious, that you're still avoiding major confrontations (for the most part... this could turn into one), that you're still trying to slide by without voicing any firm suspicions one way or another. You can't seem to get good reads on people who might be scumbags. You're not willing to do some scrounging to find any significant number of people who might be townies. That kind of unwillingness, IMO, is rather scummy. It's the main reason that you're on my list.

[Yosarian2]

Ah, simulpost.

I've already stated quite a good case against you, but apparently, you see it as having no good reasons.

You defended Mert, who I view as scummy.

Just wondering...when did I defend mert? I don't remember doing that.

I'm not getting the scumhunting vibe from you I got in Reverse.

(shrug) I'm sure I was giving off a different vibe in reverse, it was a very different game. For one thing, in Reverse I spent the whole day 1 trying to get myself "elected".

[Glork]

Hmm... can we get a

Modprod

on Dead Rikimaru? He hasn't posted since Oct 27. Thanks.

[Yosarian2]

Now, with regards to why I gave you that assignment: The initial question (pick three people) was because I wanted to see where you placed your "trust" (note that I use this term very lightly). I asked you an unusual question specifically to get you thinking in an unusual manner. Sometimes figuring out who you think is pro-town can lead you to find scum. I was sorta hoping you would do that; obviously it didn't happen. The reason I expanded it to 5 is because I realized that 3 wouldn't give me any info on you. When you answered 'Bird and Glork' initially, my internal reaction was "well, that's not too surprising." And then I realized that asking for 3 people isn't very controversial or revealing. If I want to get good info on you, I need to make you pick out something solid amongst the grey matter that is the "middle of the bunch." Yeah, it's easy to name one or two people you think are pro-town. But I wanted to make you look at other players, to think about who you like and who you don't like, and to pick amongst the uncertainty something -- some opinion, some significant conclusion -- that you are able and willing to share. I must say, I've been sorely disappointed that your response was effectively "well, I guess PJ too but after that it gets tough." That's not the kind of response I either expected or wanted to see. I guess that's partly why I continue to suspect you. You're still showing this unwillingness to dive down into the muck and get your hands dirty. I get this distinct nagging feeling that you're trying to be cautious, that you're still avoiding major confrontations (for the most part... this could turn into one), that you're still trying to slide by without voicing any firm suspicions one way or another. You can't seem to get good reads on people who might be scumbags. You're not willing to do some scrounging to find any significant number of people who might be townies. That kind of unwillingness, IMO, is rather scummy. It's the main reason that you're on my list.

In general, I'm very reluctent to make a long list of people I think are pro-town this early in the game. If I have a hunch someone might be scum, I'll say so, but if I have a hunch someone might be pro-town I usually don't. Saying "I think person X might be pro-town", if X isn't being attacked, is generally not very useful (it's not likely to start an argument, for one thing), if everyone did that it'd make it much easier for scum to manipulate conversation (by keeping people who trust them alive), and of course if you turn out to be wrong you've just linked yourself to a scum.

Now, if someone I think is probably pro-town is being attacked, I will defend them, becuase that does help the town. But if not, I'm usually reluctent to mention who I think is pro-town this early in the game. Later in the game, when "finding scum by process of elimination" starts to be a useful tactic, I'll say who I think is pro-town, but this early in the game I'm generally reluctent to do that.

[Glork]

Oh, and for the record, I now know who I will be executing today. I won't make an execution yet, and I will not announce my victim right now. I think the discussion right now is going very well (although I really wish that more people would participate actively in the discussion). I'd like to see this continue.

[pablito]

Hmm, quite a quick response from a guy like you. Since it's all directed to me more or less, I'll comment to the best of my ability at the moment.

Here's the point where I begin to significantly disagree with Glork. I do not think MBL belongs on the LoE and my current thought is that MBL is town and I haven't gotten scummy vibes from him in day two.

*points at his case against MBL*

Then how do you explain the odd behaviour I outlined in my above post, which you fail to address?

Right now my stance on MBL is based on...I'll get flack, but... "GUT". I've also refrained from commenting on MBL's latest string of posts because well, I'm still taking it all in. He's got both good and awkward stuff in there, and I don't want to prematurely comment. I really don't feel like re-reading all of MBL right now, but off the top of my head, I don't remember anything from MBL seeming vaguely scummy. Your point against MBL is your opinion. But since it's easy to look at your case against MBL. I'll comment.

MrBuddyLee: I actually have a Town vibe listed from Post 171, but that was really all. I don't like how he's playing. At all. He attacked pablito, timmy, SC, cbox and Glork early on, then said pablito, Phoebus and MoS were being awkward, then made a list of execution containing Rosso, Twomz and CTD. Day 2 he voted Fritz and timmy.

He's posted strange stuff all game. He stated pablito was suspicious for changing a vote to a FoS. He tried to link Mert to Glork. He brought up the nutty nuts-theory. He tried to link PJ, pablito and Glork. He stated that PJ/Pooky/Glork should've died, not Thok. I also noticed a lack of interaction between him and Yos, which could be construed as distancing. I definitely think he's scum right now.

I'm ignoring the first paragraph. Yes, MBL has posted strange stuff, nothing there. Yes, I was suspicious for changing a vote to a FOS but I stated my case on that earlier. I do not think of MBL as suspicious just for pointing that out. Linking Mert to Glork is not a scummy activity. I'm not buying that theory, but I feel like that logic is sound. Linking the PJ/pabs/Glork triad is not anything new. Within the first 50 posts it happened because of my actions and I've pointed it out every single time as well. Pointing out things that seem painfully obvious is not scummy at all. MBL hypothesizing who the N1 kill should have been may be indicative of scum, but I'm choosing to not put much value in that comment yet. And "distancing" between Yos and MBL well that's subjective because one must assume Yos is scum to be able to believe that theory. And right now my stance on Yos is "he's not on my priority list of having to re-read him." In fact, too much of this game requires re-reading all the time and not having the complete search all posts by user function makes it difficult to complete such a task. So bah, I don't want to do it.

I'm unsure what to think of Pooky because we haven't gotten much off of him lately, but I don't think he's the right play for today either.

Is not getting a lot off him a reason to believe he's town? I'd rather put it as a reason to believe he's scum, as he doesn't seem to be interested in catching scum at all.

WTF? So not thinking Pooky is the "right play" is suddenly crying out that I think he's town? Things are not mutually exclusive. To make it clearer, Pooky is in my "not enough evidence

as of late

to be sure of his alignment" pile. Yos is in there too.

But right now, the above quote by Zindaras makes me wonder why he so suddenly jumped on my post and what's going on there. But using bad logic like that makes me feel he's more passioned townie than using intentional craplogic.

I've totally forgotten why I was suspecting Yos, but some of the recent arguments on him seem to be slightly convincing me. But nonetheless, I don't see a damning case against him.

Then do a reread on him.

When I care to do so. If you absolutely think I need to, then get Glork to request that I do yet ANOTHER re-read on him aside from the one that's been mostly ignored. Or better yet, Zind, you can also look back at my long post on Yos, Mert, spectrum, CDB, Riki and someone else I can't remember and realize that I was wavering on my stance on Yos back then and I'm only confirming that I still can't find damning evidence on Yos and thus my unvote and uncertain stance on him are justified.

and whatever happened to the Twomz quasi-wagon? I thought people had strong suspicions on him but he suddenly dropped off the map. Is that because scum forgot about him or is it because we as town have failed to pressure him properly?

I'm not picking up anything (towny or scummy) regarding Twomz, so I'm waiting eagerly for him to make a nice post.

well you agree, so no comment here.

And now for Glork's response which was also expedient and inquisitive.

1) Are you MBL's scumbuddy? Have you seen the repeated dismantling of his so-called logic? You say you "haven't gotten scummy vibes from him in day two." What are your thoughts on MBL from D1? Have you gotten "pro-town vibes" from him?

I believe that MBL is currently theorizing that I'm the top suspect for "nut-kicker". And my priority is not whether his logic is accurate or not, I care more that it feels that he's genuine with his suspicions and I believe he is. I obviously don't agree with his logic because I don't buy the nut-kicker theory, but it would also be a bit scummy if I was strongly against MBL. Overall, I find that MBL has a genuine "aggresive pro-town curiosity" or whatever that phrase is and that puts him as currently pro-town with me. I reserve the right to change my stance on him.

As for my thoughts on MBL from D1 and getting explicit pro-town vibes, I'd have to do a re-read on him and that will come later. I've done quite a lot of re-reading lately - in fact more than a lot of people - and I don't care to re-read more today or tomorrow. Perhaps after that, I will. I don't know yet.

2) Part of the reason I suspect Mert is because I see a very strong connection between Mert/MBL (and now Mert/Yos, as Zindie pointed out). If you take Mert/MBL out as evidence (since you think MBL is town), do you

This got cut off, and I respect that you see Mert as suspicious only in context of others. I presented evidence of Mert acting suspicious in context of MoS in which it was mostly uniteral interaction (or lack thereof). As I pointed out in my long six-suspect post - Mert completely failed to mention MoS even though he was ranting about odd voting styles. And his interactions early in D1 with others feels like he's intentionally hiding something and he's putting up a defense about him. I find that to be very scummy.

3) Do you realize how absurd your stance on Yos is? "I forget why I suspect Yos. But I like the arguments against him. But they're not damning enough." It's like you want to diststance from him but can't bring yourself to advocate getting him killed!

I think that a healthy forgetfulness about earlier happenings in D1 and early D2 is something that has happened with everyone. There have been crashes and lulls and it's been a while. Can everyone be certain of where they were aiming back in the middle of D1? I'm not so sure. Lucky for you though, I did bother to look back to my six-person post back a while ago. I found that I expressed that I wasn't certain on Yos. I don't find that inconsistent at all with my current thoughts. Surely it's a strong coincidence that Yos is on the LoE and Yos unvoted me as well, but at the same time, my thoughts and suspicions are

hardly

hidden. I've been extremely out there and I don't think I've held back much (one strong exception is the Glork-MBL interactions as of late and I've held off from completely reading those and I've only skimmed actually.)

4) Why are you bringing up Twomz now? Are you trying to turn attention away from you and your scumbuddies?


I have scrawled on a sheet of scrap paper the following list:
MBL
Mert
Yos
Pooky
Pablito?
CTD?
StCh?


I very firmly believe that there are multiple scum in this group. I'm guessing 6 scum in this game, and I suspect that as many as half of the scumbags are on this list.

I'm bringing up Twomz because I remember that in the intial D2 (pre-crash) everyone seemed to be voting both Pooky and Twomz for similar reasons - in fact I remember doing so. But suddenly things become isolated on Pooky. These posts may have been lost, but I was wondering if anyone wanted to re-initiate Twomz wagons. Also aren't a lot of people voting him? I currently don't think Twomz is scum, but I thought it could be interesting to see if people still think he's scum, why so and whether there are any unvotes once his name comes up again.

Also, I do not agree with the majority of your LoE and I have every right to want to discuss people not on the LoE so that we don't become so narrow-minded like D1. I carry the blame for D1 so I am trying to correct it by making sure thta we talk about people on and off the LoE.

Honestly, I like your short-list of scum, Glork. But I'm currently believing that there's more dirt on CTD, Stalling, and Mert than with the others.

But I think it seems to be a current theme that I've been pointing at people that are less visible and you're pointing to people that are more visible. So my priorities are very different.

[pablito]

btw, the last post I noticed before I hit submit was Glork's 776.

And for reference my six-person post is 649.

[Glork]

I've been extremely out there and I don't think I've held back much (one strong exception is the Glork-MBL interactions as of late and I've held off from completely reading those and I've only skimmed actually.)

You should read the Glork/MBL/PJ exchanges. They become highly relevant to your own standing, as MBL links you and PJ very closely, and drops my name in there a couple of times.

[Yosarian2]

Anyway, Glork, you do need to comment on the "homework assignments". Trying to say that you should "not be the focus of discussion" is really kind of a cop-out, considering you've been quite intentional about trying to direct the discussion in the directions you wanted it to go. The reason we're talking about me, for example, is entirley becuse you claim to be suspicious of me. As you yourself pointed out, you are not cleared this game, Glork, and so I want to know what you think.

At this point, it feels like you're just trying to pull the strings without "getting your hands dirty" yourself, and I don't trust it. Especally something like the question you gave me. You say that you were just trying to "ask me an unusual question", which is plausable. However, it created a question in my mind, and made me wonder if you wanted to know who I trusted so you could decide if I should be kept alive or not. Especally when you didn't comment on any of my reasoning or anything there, while I would think that if you really wanted to "know what I was thinking", I would expect you to Glork-analyze that post in some detail.

[pablito]

Glork I'll re-read MBL v. Glork by Wednesday at the latest and I'll post my opinion. Also if you want anything else I should re-read, please let me know, Glork.

[Glork]

I don't think I'm copping out of anything. I'm a little sick of the fact that nearly half the game pops in to post every few days and is otherwise inactive. I asked the questions to spur discussion. Period. It may be hard to believe, but I don't always like being *THE* absolute centerpiece of the game, especially for an extended period of time. It allows too many people to slip by unnoticed. I'm leading my charges and I'm duking it out with certain players. But my sole intent in asking those questions was to make other people talk about different things. I wanted to make people take stances, make decisions, and start accusing and/or supporting each other. I wanted people to freaking talk about *SOMETHING* and all I'm getting is "Sorry, I haven't done it. I'll do it later." THIS DOES NOT PLEASE KING GLORK AT ALL.

[Glork]

Add-on to the previous post: Seriously, Yos. I'm glad that some players like Luckay and Zindaras are willing to replace into the game and can bring something to the table right away. Lurking in games sickens me, even more so in mountainous games. I don't remember if you were in Lights Out or not, but strategic lurking almost won the game for the scum. I want

other people

to start talking because I don't want anybody slinking their way around until mid- to late-game situations.

[Thok]

Hmm... can we get a

Modprod

on Dead Rikimaru? He hasn't posted since Oct 27. Thanks.

Prod sent.

[Glork]

Now, onto your other point:

At this point, it feels like you're just trying to pull the strings without "getting your hands dirty" yourself, and I don't trust it. Especally something like the question you gave me. You say that you were just trying to "ask me an unusual question", which is plausable. However, it created a question in my mind, and made me wonder if you wanted to know who I trusted so you could decide if I should be kept alive or not. Especally when you didn't comment on any of my reasoning or anything there, while I would think that if you really wanted to "know what I was thinking", I would expect you to Glork-analyze that post in some detail.

If you think that I'm pulling strings without getting my hands dirty, I suggest that you read my attacks against Pooky, my chronic raging debate with MBL, my responses to the questions posed of me. If you think that I am not satisfactorially answering questions or addressing points, you're welcome to your opinion. But keep in mind that, as active as I am, I am neither able nor willing to comment on every detail, every post, or every player at all times. I feel that I addressed this once already when MBL made a big deal about me not commenting on Mert back on D1. I understand where you are coming from, but I ask that you keep your expectations reasonable. I'm no superman.

[Yosarian2]

Pablito: I do think Twomz is scum; the big problem is that the most suspicious stuff he did involved posts that were lost in the crash. That dosn't make him any less scummy, and I still do think he's most likely scum, but it's harder to put together detailed arguments against him when I can't quote those posts.

[Zindaras]

I don't really see how trying to tie people together is a scum tell anyway; it's a perfectly reasonable way of trying to find scum.

Clearly I'm suspicious of Twomz, Vaughn, and Ameliaslay. In the future, don't expect me to be this nice about it, either. I will not go around saying "I suspect so-and-so". That's where the whole reading of my posts thing comes into play. Next time do your homework, kthnxbai.

It was not all that clear from those posts that you suspected those people, MOS. Just because I disagree with a point someone makes does not automatically mean I suspect them. And it's still not clear which one you suspect more, and your posts are certanly not going to put any pressure on any of them or get them to respond or defed themselves in any way, and it didn't even get me to take a closer look at them or anything like that, so I must say that as a scum-hunting technique, your one-liner responses without votes seems pretty worthless.

If you're not going to vote, you should at least "fos" or something, and I can't imagine why you wouldn't want to even just clearly state "I am currently suspicious Twomz". Do you really think everyone is going to sit down and pore through every one of your posts to try to get some kind of hint as to what MOS might or might not be thinking?

I don't see how the way you're playing here could possibly help the town in any way, or how it could possibly find scum. Especally in a game where the town has no information roles, if you're not going to help the town find scum during the day, you're going to have to die.

Post 189 was me pointing out, again, why MOS's plan of action was and is directly harmfull to the town. If someone does something that's bad for the town, it makes it more likely they're scum, and it also means that pro-town people should try to pressure them to act differently. I don't see why people don't seem to get that, with Glork dismissing my attack against MOS as a "metagame vote" and no one else willing to back me up to put more pressure on him. So what, exactally, is scummy about that post?

The first line is a defense of the way Mert's been playing. For the rest, I find MoS's way of playing not in any way to hurt the town. I have quite a few entries in which MoS stated opinions, so your attack on him is based only on "he won't vote", while votes aren't even that relevant. You seem to find deliberately not casting votes as scummier than deliberately not posting.

Post 376:

Ok, some quick thoughts on the people on the king's list of exectuion.

Pablito: His constant defense/buddying up to Glork is a minor scum tell, and he hasn't done much else.

Bird111: all he's done is vote Gork and Pablito for no good reason. Clearly :not helpfull: at best.

Phobus: I really can't get a good read on him at the moment. His shameless bandwagoning dosn't look good, but I'm not sure if it's a scumtell at this point. More suspicious is his refusal to contribute in any real way, with helpful comments like "still nothing to add at this point".

CDB: Don't really see anything too suspicious about him at this point.

King PJ had asked for comments about the people on his list of execution, and so I re-read all the posts of those people and posted my thoughts. More people should have done that, but they weren't. If you want to find scum, why not look at the people who weren't trying to help the king make a decision, as opposed to the few people who were?

I don't like how you post conflictingly here. You state Phoebus, pablito and bird as both scummy and townish. I don't like the general tone of your post.

Post 426:

Eh...with the deadline coming up, I figured I should vote for the person on the execution list I felt most suspicious of. I honestly don't have a very strong suspicion on anyone at this point, but out of the 4 people the king said he's thinking about executing, you're at the top of my list.

Basically, like I said in an earlier post, my general impression so far is that you've been mostly :nothelpfull:, and the one time you did contribute content it was to shamlessly bandwagon without good reasons.

And again, what's wrong with this post? When the king says "I'm going to execute one of these three people", every pro-town person in the game SHOULD comment on that, and say "Well, if you're going to execute A, B, or C, I'd suggest B, because....".

You ignore everyone but those on the scum list, as if you're happy with whatever happens. You think inside the box. That's not something I'm used to from you.

He pressured PJ to pressure others (instead of doing it himself).

I'd been trying to pressure MOS for most of the day, and it did exactally nothing. He basically ignored me, everyone else basically ignored me, and nothing changed at all, he felt absolutly no pressure to change his anti-town behavior. So yeah, I came to the conclusion that we needed to have the king start pressuring people if we were going to get anywhere. Do you disagree?

I think you should always try to do your own job, instead of asking others to do it for you.

He voted Phoebus.

Yup, and I still think he's scum. What's your point?

I don't.

he attacked Yos Day 2, an attack against Yos defended himself very awkwardly

I "defended myself against very awkwardly"? How so? What in my defense did you disagree with?

[/quote]

I think your defense against the attacks on you and your attacks on Glork aren't very strong.

[Zindaras]

Just wondering...when did I defend mert? I don't remember doing that.

In Post 189, you defend the way Mert played up to that point.

(shrug) I'm sure I was giving off a different vibe in reverse, it was a very different game. For one thing, in Reverse I spent the whole day 1 trying to get myself "elected".

And in this game you should spend the whole day trying to find scum. And I don't see you doing that.