Diffusion of Power (Open 478) over

[N]

Vote Count 1.6

Disturbed_One

(petroleumjelly)

( 0 )

Mitillos

( 0 )

kmd4390

( 1 ) Mitillos

Siveure DtTrikyp

( 0 )

ProHawk

( 0 )

fuzzybutternut

( 0 )

theslimer3

( 0 )

pirate mollie

( 1 ) kmd4390

Wisdom

( 4 ) theslimer3 , Human Destroyer , pirate mollie , ProHawk

zabriel

( 0 )

CF Riot

(tigerzone)

( 3 ) Siveure DtTrikyp , The Puck , Disturbed_One 

The Puck

( 2 ) Wisdom , zabriel

Human Destroyer

( 1 ) fuzzybutternut

Not voting:

CF Riot

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Deadline is in

(expired on 2013-02-28 20:30:20)

zabriel is V/LA until 28th of Feb

(edited to change tigerzone to CF Riot)

[ProHawk]

Mollie, my vote initially landed on you, how could you have forgotten?

Wisdom, that was incredibly fency of you. How does HD pushing a lynch make anyone town? And how can you say Mollie is town, but not have a townread?

[N]

I am still waiting for N to say if majiffy and I can do a hydra it will be awesomely funny cos we rarely agree and we fight like hell

Do it.

[pirate mollie]

thanks, N, waiting for approval

[N]

CF Riot replaces tigerzone

[CF Riot]

Hey Prohawk, sup?

[Human Destroyer]

D_O did ProHawk explain it better than I did, if so get the hell on the Wisdom wagon

I want this lynch dammit

It will be GLORIOUS

Also CF you should lynch Wisdom too but you should read and form your own opinions first

[Disturbed_One]

Well, to be fair, your "explanation" was simply putting together a ton of Wisdom's posts and expecting me to come to the same conclusion you did about them.

But yes, I do like what Prohawk has to say on the matter and I agree. I didn't observe this until now (probably because I skimmed through a lot of the banter between yourself and Wisdom), but Wisdom seems to say a lot of things he/she doesn't really mean. That does seem a bit strange to me.

I also personally dislike how he defends more people than he actually accuses, which makes it seem as though he's trying to "buddy up" with as many people as possible, so he has allies if he needs them. Some of his reasoning/explanation for defending players is downright weird, for example, calling Mollie town from a null read.

I also wanted to directly respond to Wisdom's point in post #365.

If you can't read her, then she's just a liability and needs to go. End of story.

I strongly dislike this. What, are you proposing a policy lynch on mollie now? Who said that nobody can read her?

Yes, I am. No one said they couldn't read her, but who said they could actually read her? If Mollie plays anti-town every game, then there is no way to prove what her alignment actually is. If she got a scum-role, we'd be none the wiser from her playstyle.

That said, I asked a reasonable question which you completely chose to ignore, and seeing as you choose to defend Mollie this means that you are in fact dodging a question that is directed at you. Why did you cut that part of my post out, Wisdom?

My question still stands. If Mollie is scum, then who here knows how to read her? Prove how you're going to figure out what alignment she is, ultimately. If you can't, then she is ultimately a liability.

I'm starting to think Wisdom may in fact be the lynch of the day.

UNVOTE: CF Riot
VOTE: Wisdom

[Wisdom]

Why would I know who can read her and who can't? We will read her as any other player - based on her posts and actions. There never was an issue that mollie is such an awesome player that we'll never read her (although that might become the case if you insert Majiffy in the mix, but we'll see), so proposing a policy lynch is terribad. We should lynch scum, not whoever is difficult to read.

But yes, I do like what Prohawk has to say on the matter and I agree. I didn't observe this until now (probably because I skimmed through a lot of the banter between yourself and Wisdom), but Wisdom seems to say a lot of things he/she doesn't really mean. That does seem a bit strange to me.

lolwut? I mean everything I say - stop sheeping bullshit reasons others give.

I also personally dislike how he defends more people than he actually accuses, which makes it seem as though he's trying to "buddy up" with as many people as possible, so he has allies if he needs them. Some of his reasoning/explanation for defending players is downright weird, for example, calling Mollie town from a null read.

Or because I'm trying to scumhunt and I can't see people accusing people for bullshit reasons, such as things solely related on playstyle. It's not even like I defended anyone, I just shot down the accusations on mollie and slimer because they were bullshit - I am not sure either of them is town though.

Wisdom, that was incredibly fency of you. How does HD pushing a lynch make anyone town? And how can you say Mollie is town, but not have a townread?

HD-scum pushing my and mollie's lynch probably would mean that mollie is town too - scum will push town lynches rather than bus. Based on that, I felt HD was trying to push the lynch of two townies and excuse it to tunneling (and it might still be the case given his insistence on tunneling me), and I called me and mollie townies because of that. But again, I don't have a townread on mollie based on her posts on anything. That's all there was to me calling her "town" at that moment.

[theslimer3]

e.e forget this I hate starting a fast game late with a burning passion. Sorry all, I'm not reading this so I can wake up to 7 more pages the next day.

I'll go off what I know. What's up with these wagons?

[Wisdom]

The main wagon is on me now, and you are on it. Are you ok with lynching me (since your vote was comical/RVS)?

[theslimer3]

UNVOTE:

Nah. What's up with the Zab vs Tiger and Tiger vs. Destroyer? When did that get squashed?

[pirate mollie]

UNVOTE:

[Wisdom]

Tiger got replaced, slimer.

[Disturbed_One]

Why would I know who can read her and who can't? We will read her as any other player - based on her posts and actions. There never was an issue that mollie is such an awesome player that we'll never read her (although that might become the case if you insert Majiffy in the mix, but we'll see), so proposing a policy lynch is terribad. We should lynch scum, not whoever is difficult to read.

Or because I'm trying to scumhunt and I can't see people accusing people for bullshit reasons, such as things solely related on playstyle. It's not even like I defended anyone, I just shot down the accusations on mollie and slimer because they were bullshit - I am not sure either of them is town though.

You didn't answer why you cut my question out of my post. Why did you that, Wisdom?

Not proposing a way to read an otherwise unreadable player is what's "terribad" here. What I am saying is that Mollie plays in a way that's anti-town, so how do we determine that player's alignment if they play this way every game? I'm not saying you should know the answer to this. My point here is that you can't tell the difference between town-Mollie and scum-Mollie. If you think you can, prove it. (Although judging by your responses to me, I think you cannot.)

I'd hate to be in a position where it becomes vital to our survival to figure out if she's town or not, for example, LYLO. That's my fear here, and nothing you have said has alleviated that fear.

You say Mollie isn't unreadable, prove it. Show me a game where she got busted as scum using her strategy. And I don't mean by playing the way she is now. Because according to you, there should be a difference between town-Mollie and scum-Mollie. Correct? If so, prove it. Show me a game. If not, then your point is null, frankly.

"We should lynch scum, not whoever is difficult to read."

And what do you propose we do if the ones that are hard to read get the scum role-card? I don't think Mollie can be read. If you think differently, show me that game.

Shooting down accusations, regardless of if they're actually "bullsmurf" or not, on behalf of someone else is defending them. Any player can defend themselves, so you doing it for them is defending them, whether you agree you did so or not. That's exactly what you did, you defended them.

This is my central problem with you, really. You're not sure if mollie and slimer are actually town, yet you're defending them and doing nothing to figure out their alignment. As I said, you are spending more effort defending people than actually scum-hunting.

So if you're not actually scum-hunting, then what in fact are you doing? My vote stands.

[Wisdom]

Yeah and I'll repeat, who said that she's "unreadable"? You're misrepping and it's bad.
Do you think that someone can tell the alignment of a player basing only on meta? Let her post more, let actions unfold and we'll be able to read her. I don't understand how she becomes "unreadable" because certain actions of her are null.
I don't understand why you think mollie cannot be read. Have you had a problem with reading her in the past? How is she different than any other player in here? Can I be read? Can you be read? Can slimer be read? Possibly, when we do certain actions and post certain things we might be able to be read. Same goes for mollie. I don't understand why she's different for you.
I didn't defend anyone, I merely pointed out the accusations were invalid. You're still misrepping.

[Disturbed_One]

Yeah and I'll repeat, who said that she's "unreadable"? You're misrepping and it's bad.
Do you think that someone can tell the alignment of a player basing only on meta? Let her post more, let actions unfold and we'll be able to read her. I don't understand how she becomes "unreadable" because certain actions of her are null.
I don't understand why you think mollie cannot be read. Have you had a problem with reading her in the past? How is she different than any other player in here? Can I be read? Can you be read? Can slimer be read? Possibly, when we do certain actions and post certain things we might be able to be read. Same goes for mollie. I don't understand why she's different for you.
I didn't defend anyone, I merely pointed out the accusations were invalid. You're still misrepping.

I'm not quoting anyone, just stating my opinion, yet I'm misrepresenting? You're the one who's misrepresenting

me

, nowhere did I say that I thought anyone had said that.
That's not at all my point. My point is exactly the opposite of what you're saying. My point is that I do not believe Mollie can be read, my "evidence" for this point is that she plays inherently anti-town regardless of her alignment. You're claiming that you think we can read her based on her actions, I am just asking you to back that up with previous experience. I'm not saying that meta can determine her alignment, in fact I'm saying the exact opposite. I do

not

think meta can determine her alignment. I do not think observing her actions can determine her alignment, either. And for these reasons, I am saying that I feel she is fair game to lynch. Based on the grounds that we cannot tell if she is town or scum, and therefore that makes her dangerous.

I have never played with Mollie before. Mollie is different from the other players because she plays in a way that is anti-town, regardless of alignment. slimer is also different in this regard. You and I are more likely to play pro-town regardless of our alignment, though we can actually "slip-up" when we post something anti-town. Mollie and slimer cannot, because they are already posting in an anti-town fashion, so therefore it is impossible for them to slip up.

I'm not misrepresenting you, and I have no need to argue with you about this. You

did

defend them, and you're not fooling anyone. Simply stating that I am misrepresenting you does not actually make it so.

[pirate mollie]

Well, to be fair, your "explanation" was simply putting together a ton of Wisdom's posts and expecting me to come to the same conclusion you did about them.

But yes, I do like what Prohawk has to say on the matter and I agree. I didn't observe this until now (probably because I skimmed through a lot of the banter between yourself and Wisdom), but Wisdom seems to say a lot of things he/she doesn't really mean. That does seem a bit strange to me.

prohawk if I have to witness another game of scum butkissing and you totally buying I am going to

hurt

you

I also personally dislike how he defends more people than he actually accuses, which makes it seem as though he's trying to "buddy up" with as many people as possible, so he has allies if he needs them. Some of his reasoning/explanation for defending players is downright weird, for example, calling Mollie town from a null read.

no, what

you

are doing is buddying up. wisdom is defending players against hd's dumb accusation do you know why? cos they are really dumb.

eta: I have not even read the xposts yet, I have been texting majiffy trying to get our account activated.

I also wanted to directly respond to Wisdom's point in post #365.

Yes, I am. No one said they couldn't read her, but who said they could actually read her? If Mollie plays anti-town every game, then there is no way to prove what her alignment actually is. If she got a scum-role, we'd be none the wiser from her playstyle.

list what I have done that is anti-town, k tia

what hd listed were things he finds scummy...he is wrong and it is funny cos he is somebody who has actually

seen

my scum game. I was recruited in a game we played together. you are calling those same things anti-town. you know what that implies? that you know my alignment. the only people who could know my alignment for sure are scum. and you have been banging on for pages about, "how I am so hard to read" and I should be lynched for it. w.t.f.

That said, I asked a reasonable question which you completely chose to ignore, and seeing as you choose to defend Mollie this means that you are in fact dodging a question that is directed at you. Why did you cut that part of my post out, Wisdom?

My question still stands. If Mollie is scum, then who here knows how to read her? Prove how you're going to figure out what alignment she is, ultimately. If you can't, then she is ultimately a liability.

I'm starting to think Wisdom may in fact be the lynch of the day.

UNVOTE: CF Riot
VOTE: Wisdom

jesus christ I am hydra-ing with majiffy cos shit like this ^^^ makes me lose my temper and I will vote him cos I think he is being an ass although he just dropped that he thinks I am town but he wants to lynch me anyways for shitty reasons and then tries to paint anybody who disagrees with those shitty reasons as scummy.

scumhunting comes down to discerning whether or not a post comes from a town POV and yours reeks DO. so does hd's cos he is basically trying to meta me on meta he has but somehow is managing to ignore.

sorry I got paranoid about you wisdom.

[Wisdom]

I'm not quoting anyone, just stating my opinion, yet I'm misrepresenting? You're the one who's misrepresenting

me

, nowhere did I say that I thought anyone had said that.
That's not at all my point. My point is exactly the opposite of what you're saying. My point is that I do not believe Mollie can be read, my "evidence" for this point is that she plays inherently anti-town regardless of her alignment. You're claiming that you think we can read her based on her actions, I am just asking you to back that up with previous experience. I'm not saying that meta can determine her alignment, in fact I'm saying the exact opposite. I do

not

think meta can determine her alignment. I do not think observing her actions can determine her alignment, either. And for these reasons, I am saying that I feel she is fair game to lynch. Based on the grounds that we cannot tell if she is town or scum, and therefore that makes her dangerous.

I have never played with Mollie before. Mollie is different from the other players because she plays in a way that is anti-town, regardless of alignment. slimer is also different in this regard. You and I are more likely to play pro-town regardless of our alignment, though we can actually "slip-up" when we post something anti-town. Mollie and slimer cannot, because they are already posting in an anti-town fashion, so therefore it is impossible for them to slip up.

I'm not misrepresenting you, and I have no need to argue with you about this. You

did

defend them, and you're not fooling anyone. Simply stating that I am misrepresenting you does not actually make it so.

Yes, you're taking several things that are

your own interpretations

as facts, and I call that misrepping. Like for example that "I defended people" while I defended nobody (because I don't count pointing out that bullshit accusations are bullshit as defending), or that mollie is unreadable (I still dont understand how on earth you came up with this).

We have different opinions of what is "anti-town", because I don't consider mollie's play anti-town. She's scumhunting in her own way. Same goes for slimer. Each person plays differently. They might be criticized at first but once you play with them and become familiar with them you understand that's their normal play.

I do not understand where you pulled "mollie is unreadable" out of. This is your claim, and you should be the one to prove why she is. I don't have any obligation to prove why she isn't unreadable because simply, by default, players are not unreadable. You're the one who suddenly came up with "mollie is unreadable". And now you say you have not played with her. This is bullshit, and probably scummy too.

[pirate mollie]

Yeah and I'll repeat, who said that she's "unreadable"? You're misrepping and it's bad.
Do you think that someone can tell the alignment of a player basing only on meta? Let her post more, let actions unfold and we'll be able to read her. I don't understand how she becomes "unreadable" because certain actions of her are null.
I don't understand why you think mollie cannot be read. Have you had a problem with reading her in the past? How is she different than any other player in here? Can I be read? Can you be read? Can slimer be read? Possibly, when we do certain actions and post certain things we might be able to be read. Same goes for mollie. I don't understand why she's different for you.
I didn't defend anyone, I merely pointed out the accusations were invalid. You're still misrepping.

I'm not quoting anyone, just stating my opinion, yet I'm misrepresenting? You're the one who's misrepresenting

me

, nowhere did I say that I thought anyone had said that.
That's not at all my point. My point is exactly the opposite of what you're saying.

My point is that I do not believe Mollie can be read, my "evidence" for this point is that she plays inherently anti-town regardless of her alignment.

You're claiming that you think we can read her based on her actions, I am just asking you to back that up with previous experience. I'm not saying that meta can determine her alignment, in fact I'm saying the exact opposite. I do

not

think meta can determine her alignment. I do not think observing her actions can determine her alignment, either. And for these reasons, I am saying that I feel she is fair game to lynch. Based on the grounds that we cannot tell if she is town or scum, and therefore that makes her dangerous.

I have never played with Mollie before. Mollie is different from the other players because she plays in a way that is anti-town, regardless of alignment. slimer is also different in this regard. You and I are more likely to play pro-town regardless of our alignment, though we can actually "slip-up" when we post something anti-town. Mollie and slimer cannot, because they are already posting in an anti-town fashion, so therefore it is impossible for them to slip up.

I'm not misrepresenting you, and I have no need to argue with you about this. You

did

defend them, and you're not fooling anyone. Simply stating that I am misrepresenting you does not actually make it so.

jesus christ

list where I have been anti-town

and just cos you can't read me does not count

and if you have never played with me before then how can genuinely discredit other people who say they can?

hey bud, I gave you some pro-tips on how to scum hunt...you read a post and you determine the motivation behind the post. if you use that criteria you cannot say anything that I have done in this game is anti-town

also your fixation is starting to feel a little creepy and weird and/or downright scummy, I just can't tell if it is feigned or not

[fuzzybutternut]

Cf! God, this is becoming that Marathon game all over again.

[Human Destroyer]

so does hd's cos he is basically trying to meta me on meta he has but somehow is managing to ignore.

Bullshit.

I made one off-hand comment about what I remember of you without even putting that much stock into it; that's not a meta read.

[Disturbed_One]

Going to be responding to two different people now. This may take a while.

[fuzzybutternut]

This is going to be a long game, so far as I can tell..

[Disturbed_One]

prohawk if I have to witness another game of scum butkissing and you totally buying I am going to

hurt

you

no, what

you

are doing is buddying up. wisdom is defending players against hd's dumb accusation do you know why? cos they are really dumb.

eta: I have not even read the xposts yet, I have been texting majiffy trying to get our account activated.

list what I have done that is anti-town, k tia

what hd listed were things he finds scummy...he is wrong and it is funny cos he is somebody who has actually

seen

my scum game. I was recruited in a game we played together. you are calling those same things anti-town. you know what that implies? that you know my alignment. the only people who could know my alignment for sure are scum. and you have been banging on for pages about, "how I am so hard to read" and I should be lynched for it. w.t.f.

jesus christ I am hydra-ing with majiffy cos shit like this ^^^ makes me lose my temper and I will vote him cos I think he is being an ass although he just dropped that he thinks I am town but he wants to lynch me anyways for shitty reasons and then tries to paint anybody who disagrees with those shitty reasons as scummy.

scumhunting comes down to discerning whether or not a post comes from a town POV and yours reeks DO. so does hd's cos he is basically trying to meta me on meta he has but somehow is managing to ignore.

sorry I got paranoid about you wisdom.

Calling players dumb does two things:

1. It actually makes you look dumber than the people who are actually making valid points.

2. It illustrates how you don't have a point in the first place, because if you had one, you'd be making it instead of calling other players names.

I'm glad you agree that Wisdom is defending people, because you know he says that he doesn't. It's a very pro-town thing, to do one thing and say another, right?

Hmm... why aren't you voting Wisdom again?

I think HD's arguments were and still are valid. Prove how they aren't, preferably in reasoning that doesn't consist of "because he's dumb."

You are anti-town because nearly all of your posts are void of any content. The content that you do actually post is either impossible to understand or not at all useful. You also do not go very in-depth on your reads, and instead call your scum-reads names, suggesting you don't actually have any reason to suspect them in the first place.

Interesting... so HD is wrong, and that makes him scum? Seeing as Wisdom was unable to answer this question, maybe you can answer it for me. Show me one of your scum games and illustrate how it is any different from the one you're playing now. HD knows how you play as scum? I don't know how you play as scum, why don't you tell me?

I don't know how you made the connection that because I call you "anti-town" that I somehow know your alignment. Frankly, I don't care either, as it's a bunch of malarkey.

I honestly cannot understand the rest of your post, it's seemingly gibberish. Something about how my play "reeks", once again not for any discernible reason other than the fact you disagree with me.

Case in point, you don't actually have any valuable scum-reads. That's probably because you're not actually scum-hunting.

jesus christ

list where I have been anti-town

and just cos you can't read me does not count

and if you have never played with me before then how can genuinely discredit other people who say they can?

hey bud, I gave you some pro-tips on how to scum hunt...you read a post and you determine the motivation behind the post. if you use that criteria you cannot say anything that I have done in this game is anti-town

also your fixation is starting to feel a little creepy and weird and/or downright scummy, I just can't tell if it is feigned or not

I responded to your previous post how you are anti-town. I will

not

repeat myself.

The thing is, I'd be comfortable lynching you based on your behavior alone. Your behavior has been "anti-town" in my opinion, and I'd be fine lynching you for it. The only thing that keeps me from voting you this very instant, is the fact you seemingly play this way every single game. I can and

have

read you as anti-town, I would lynch you if not for the fact you always play this way.

No one has said they can read you. I've asked for specific examples from your pal, Wisdom, but he has been unable to answer that question other than saying that we'll somehow be able to figure it out from your play. I don't agree, because if you always play in an anti-town fashion, there's no way you can slip-up anymore than you are already doing.

Do you play pro-town as scum or something? Unless you do, then there is no way to read you. I have requested you to illustrate how your scum game is different from your town game. Until you do, I am forced to believe there is not a difference.

Actually, I can totally say almost everything you've done in this game is anti-town, using that exact criteria. As I said, the only thing keeping me from voting based on this information, is that it is normal play for you.

Interesting theory. I was previously unaware one could be "fixated" while pursuing another read entirely and voting for that read. I'll be sure to note this for the future, thank you for enlightening me!