Magic: The Gathering,GO TEAM MS!

[Thestatusquo]

Because you can make a sickly fast RG deck? Faster than RR.

[Fate]

Like the one I linked? But its red splash green not the other way around which makes experiment one harder to fix for

[Sudo_Nym]

Playing on MTGO, I've seen Naya Humans decks that go t1 Champion of the Parish, t2 Burning-Tree Shaman+Lightning Mauler, smash for 7. Seems like the meta is really going to speed up.

[Thestatusquo]

Then they cheated.

[hasdgfas]

Then they cheated.

I must be missing how that's cheating. Seems pretty easy with shocklands. Unless you are referring to the fact that he actually means Burning-Tree Emissary instead of Shaman.

[Sudo_Nym]

Clearly.

[Thestatusquo]

Yes. Playing a 3 drop for 2 mana is cheating.

[bv310]

I've seen a good number of Burning-Tree in to Volcanic Strength. Always makes me chuckle a bit to see what would otherwise be a Limited card used in Constructed.

[InflatablePie]

So I would like a bit of help with my Guttersnipe deck. I've tried multiple variations, and there's just so many cards I want to throw in that I can't find the right balance/flow for the deck.

This was the original iteration:

Spoiler: Deck 1

9 Island
7 Mountain
4 Izzet Guildgate
2 Steam Vents

4 Delver of Secrets
4 Goblin Electromancer
4 Guttersnipe

4 Curiosity
4 Faithless Looting
4 Desperate Ravings
4 Negate
4 Searing Spear
4 Think Twice
2 Dissipate

SB: 4 Pillar of Flame
SB: 2 Pithing Needle
SB: 2 Tormod's Crypt
SB: 4 Frostburn Weird
SB: 1 Dissipate
SB: 2 Talrand, Sky Summoner

This got me 3rd at the Constructed tourney I took it to. I liked that it could combo off pretty nice, but disliked the matchup against aggro (RDW or Rakdos). Tormod's ended up useless in the SB because no one really runs too much GY-stuff at my LGS.

I also hated getting screwed out of mana, or having no way to protect my Snipes other than Negates (useless against Abrupt Decay). 22 Lands seemed too few, even with all the draw. Plus there'd be times where the dig spells would backfire, usually causing me to discard stuff I actually needed.

Spoiler: Deck 2

11 Island
4 Mountain
4 Izzet Guildgate
4 Steam Vents

4 Goblin Electromancer
4 Guttersnipe
4 Delver of Secrets

3 Curiosity
2 Runechanter's Pike
3 Negate
4 Searing Spear
4 Think Twice
2 Dissipate
3 Hands of Binding
4 Unsummon

SB: 4 Pillar of Flame
SB: 4 Frostburn Weird
SB: 2 Dissipate
SB: 2 Reverberate
SB: 3 Cyclonic Rift

This version seemed better, dropping the dig spells for Pikes and Hands of Binding. 23 lands also gave me slightly more mana to work with, which was a huge boon (plus getting ahold of the full set of Steam Vents). Hands worked really well with Guttersnipe, since it triggers off of those as long as I can connect with damage. The thing is, though, it made this deck too aggro-y and kept losing to removal (basically a 2-for-1 with Curiosity or Hands attached). The Pikes felt kind of clunky due to taking 4 mana to play and equip (even on separate turns), and the Unsummons didn't help much with surviving removal.

So I tried this:

Spoiler: Deck 3

4 Izzet Guildgate
4 Steam Vents
10 Island
5 Mountain

4 Goblin Electromancer
4 Guttersnipe
4 Delver of Secrets
2 Talrand, Sky Summoner

3 Curiosity
4 Think Twice
4 Searing Spear
3 Negate
3 Izzet Charm
2 Dissipate
2 Cyclonic Rift
2 Mizzium Skin

SB: 2 Dissipate
SB: 1 Negate
SB: 2 Augur of Bolas
SB: 4 Pillar of Flame
SB: 4 Frostburn Weird
SB: 2 Reverberate

This is probably my preferred list. Talrand mainboard helps give me an alternate wincon in case of Guttersnipe-failure, Mizzium Skin protects fairly well for cheap, and Rift helps me bounce anything that I've already allowed to hit the field that I need gone. I also added Izzet Charm; while I did not like it in the first decklist, it helps more here as an early answer to aggro in lieu of Pillar, as well as allowing for dig (since I dropped Looting and Ravings).

As for the SB, I like both Augur and Weirds to sub in for aggro. Weird is better as it blocks everything except Hellkite/Aristocrat, I think, but running two Augur helps me dig for much-needed spells lategame. Not sure how well Reverb works in this deck yet, so I may drop it from the board for something else. Mizzium Mortars?

Any suggestions are appreciated, although I prefer budget options. Not sure if I can get a set of Sulfur Falls or else I'd already be running them.

[Sudo_Nym]

I like Desolate Lighthouse in any blue red deck. I'd also prefer to ditch Curiosity and Mizzium Skin. Curiosity is bad for drawing, and has antisynergy with Delver and Guttersnipe. Straight draw spells seem better. Syncopate seems like it should have a place.

It's a little gimmicky, but Guttersnipe with Burning Vengeance and a lot of flashback seems neat.

[InflatablePie]

Curiosity ... has antisynergy with ... Guttersnipe.

I disagree.

Although yeah, it does lessen my Delver flip chances slightly. Might get ahold of two Lighthouse. Should Syncopate replace Negate/Dissipate/Izzet Charm, or the two Mizzium Skin?

[Thestatusquo]

Sudo, I've tried really hard to build that guttersnipe and vengence deck. The issue is that throughout all of my playtesting, every single time I had vengence in my hand, I found myself wishing it was like... pretty much anything else. I mean every single damn time. The card just doesn't do enough and isn't fast enough to be good in constructed magic.

[Sudo_Nym]

But, but... it seems like it should be so good! Load up with burn and draw, drop Burning Vengeance, then Past in Flames, and gg!

I knew it was too good to be true. But I still feel like Guttersnipe/Goblin Electromancer with the Talrand's Invocations, Krenko's Commands, Goblin Rallys into Battle Hymn and Burn at the Stake should be a deck, if only a tier 2 one.

[Fate]

NEEDS MOAR LOBBER CREW


But speaking seriously, what decks DID you beat to get 3rd? I have a hard time picturing your deck winning against Esper Control and Bant Auras. And you already said you have a tough time against aggro decks.

Also yeah I think Mizzium should go in there somewhere... how else do you deal with Loxodon Smiters and Resto angels? Weird can only block the former once (and only trade with 3 mana open)

[InflatablePie]

American Control, GW Humans, GW Aggro. Lost to Kibler's Golgari Fight Club.

I think only one regular plays Esper Control occasionally, and I've only seen Bantchantment pop up once. Played Mono-Black Control/Vamps last week and ran into Jund, saw two Naya Humans decks too, but other than those it was pretty much mostly aggro (RDW, Rakdos, GW, Golgari Zombies, etc.).

[Fate]

am I stupid for thinking these cards have untapped potential in Standard?:


Wild Defiance

Boros Reckoner

Pit Fight
Wolfir Silvirheart
Hounds of Griselbrand
Strangleroot Geists n shit



For a more mid rangey G/R deck.

Pit fight a bound Silvirheart and a Reckoner? 11 damage to the face.

Pillar of flame my Geist? Nope hes a 5/3 before that happens.


Has survival from spears and shit against aggro, has huge guys and fighting potential against control (also domri rade against control)

Y/N?

[Sudo_Nym]

Currently, I'm obsessed with trying to make Dimir Mill-Tempo. Dimir Charm should be able to flip Delvers consistently, and psychic strike/thought scour can both mill the opponent, turning Jace's Phantasm into a 5/5 flyer for 1. Add in Invisible Stalker to carry Hands of Binding into the redzone for tempo. Then, back the whole thing with Rewinds, Syncopates, and the like. That's bound to be decent, right?

[chamber]

boros reckoner is seeing absurd amounts of play in the ongoing pro tour, so I wouldn't call that card untapped at all.

[InflatablePie]

Reckoner and Strangleroot Geists I disagree with. [edit] ninja

Wild Defiance was great when Infect was a thing.

When I think "untapped potential in Standard" I'm thinking Master Biomancer and such.

[Fate]

wow lost of people on

I meant Boros Reckoner combod WITH a Pit fight and a silverheart, but yeah obviously a lot of people are going to build against him.


But the theme is mostly: Jundish style creatures (Aristocrat, replace Reckoner with Avengers), fighting, and Pit fighting WHILE make shit stronger to remove anything that could possible be on the board (and doubling as a pump spell for before you swing in)


I just think Pit fight with wild defiance= Removal AND +3/3 Pump spell AND protection from spears and shit. Im writing up a decklist we'll see if I can include black or not

[Fate]

BTW Pit fighting a Wasteland Viper with a Reckoner is a good way to deal with that card IMO

[esuriospiritus]

untapped potential in Standard?

Clock of Omens.

[chamber]

You aren't shanba.

[bv310]

am I stupid for thinking these cards have untapped potential in Standard?:


Wild Defiance
Boros Reckoner
Pit Fight
Wolfir Silvirheart
Hounds of Griselbrand
Strangleroot Geists n shit



For a more mid rangey G/R deck.

Pit fight a bound Silvirheart and a Reckoner? 11 damage to the face.

Pillar of flame my Geist? Nope hes a 5/3 before that happens.


Has survival from spears and shit against aggro, has huge guys and fighting potential against control (also domri rade against control)

Y/N?

Dude, Reckoners are $25 a piece right now. I would not exactly call that "untapped potential". Also, Silverheart+Hound actually is pretty great.

[Fate]

Don't make me edit my post

I get it Reckoners are overhyped the fuck for what they do