Mini 1404 - Monopoly Mafia - Game Over

[Mehdi2277]

It's primarily made assuming we lynch scum today. Let's say there's 1 scum alive and he gives a clear on someone. Well it'd be true since he's the scum and not the person he said it on. And town reports would be true too. So one of the trackers could be scum and things work out just fine as long as one scum is lynched today (if we mislynch I still think that's one of the better plans you can make but it stops being as ideal as now).

[Xisiqomelir]

@Jake

:

Why mehndi over mhork/guile?

I don't understand your town read of guile one bit. He's done absolutely nothing productive IMO.

Mehdi over both of them is primarily based on NKs. Baby and TBG both dying with Mehdi as a scumspect doesn't look great. There's a possibility that scumteam did it as a distracting tactic, but no one has tried to push that seriously yet this game.

re: guille, I'm still holding on to my NumberQ read, I guess.

[Mehdi2277]

I don't think I've even bothered to shoot people for suspecting me in any of my games (tbg I'd have honestly shot but simply because I thought he was obvtown) as scum.

And your numberQ read is about 2-3 posts long in a game this size.

[Xisiqomelir]

@Mehdi

: Intensity is not proportional to volume. Can you answer my question about guille-town?

[Mehdi2277]

It still weakens when it's that small relative to game amount.

My town reads wouldn't really change if he flipped town (and redirecting it to you do you think anyone looks more likely scum if he flips town associatively?). The simple list of my reads at this moment is:

jal > jake > safety > cheery > xis > mhork > guille (yeah mhork's last few comments has made him below you like the plan outcry and a very vague call of me erratic without much explanation on how it's true)

[Xisiqomelir]

@Mehdi

:

It still weakens when it's that small relative to game amount.

No, if I assert something as a fact, and then reinforce it with subsequent posts, I really do mean I consider it to be true.

My town reads wouldn't really change if he flipped town (and redirecting it to you do you think anyone looks more likely scum if he flips town associatively?).

I assume this is meant to be "flips scum", since I consider him town. My readlists would remain static. If it were a standard game, I'd feel better about Cheery Dog.

The simple list of my reads at this moment is:

jal > jake > safety > cheery > xis > mhork > guille (yeah mhork's last few comments has made him below you like the plan outcry and a very vague call of me erratic without much explanation on how it's true)

Mhork is actually someone I'm having great trouble reading.

[Mehdi2277]

Mhork to me has one calling card (lurker push) and beyond that a fairly weak game throughout, the inconsistency on making plans, and going with the erratic which just felt like a way to fos me without really attacking me more directly.

Guille trumps for me but at the moment I'm content with mhork too.

[Jal]

To be fair, TBG did the planning in the end.

[Jake from State Farm]

so I think I will go ahead and hammer mehndi, the explanation why he should be lynched makes sense and I have been skeptical of him all game. I just want to make sure this is correct

I watch Safety
Safety watches Cheery
and I just want to make sure that cheery and safety don't track the same person

[Xisiqomelir]

so I think I will go ahead and hammer mehndi, the explanation why he should be lynched makes sense and I have been skeptical of him all game. I just want to make sure this is correct

I watch Safety
Safety watches Cheery
and I just want to make sure that cheery and safety don't track the same person

I will investigate just Cheery if Mehdi does happen to be town, but if he's not I'm using my scumpool I listed previously.

[Cheery Dog]

Are we going with what medhi posted earlier? If everyone wants me to I well track mhork again, but it just doesn't feel right to me to repeat the same action.

[guille2015]

Are we going with what medhi posted earlier? If everyone wants me to I well track mhork again, but it just doesn't feel right to me to repeat the same action.

Considering this: If Medhi and LM had been tracked together (correct me if I'm wrong.) Which means that if Medhi flips scum, then LM cannot be scum with him. So tracking him is pointless. So, if Medhi flips scum, cheery can track someone else.

[Jake from State Farm]

Why not vig mhork and track guile?

Mhork is utterly useless if he's town.

[Cheery Dog]

Are we going with what medhi posted earlier? If everyone wants me to I well track mhork again, but it just doesn't feel right to me to repeat the same action.

Considering this: If Medhi and LM had been tracked together (correct me if I'm wrong.) Which means that if Medhi flips scum, then LM cannot be scum with him. So tracking him is pointless. So, if Medhi flips scum, cheery can track someone else.

unless mt ninja theory is true. (which we will find out with medhi's flip) but yeah if he's just a scum goon, I'll just track jake instead as there is actually nothing stopping me from double tracking - it just seems worthless to me investigating the same person again, but since we have two trackers I guess why not.

[SafetyDance]

No hammer please. We've still got three days left and don't know about others but I certainly need to use it.

[SafetyDance]

Disgustingly scummy misrepresentation. My actual town-guille case, for anyone who's forgotten:

Spoiler:

@Mehdi2277

:

Also, this is ridiculous:

VOTE: guille

NumberQ was town.

Sorry for being so late to the party, but I'm all caught up now.

I have one question: Why did Lurker's claim make so many people back off? So, what, he says he's a watcher and suddenly you believe him?

What about his post-claim actions changed your mind?

Also, take a look at the mini-theme queue, at the post that introduces Monopoly Mafia. I didn't find this info in the first post of this thread. It says that deeds are randomized AFTER alignments are given. Lurker could be a watcher, but also scum.

Lurker:

Before the claim, his content amounted to an analysis of his own wagon (though unless I read it wrong he didn't even supply any opinions of his own), a case on Mhork (which is weak, but that's already been discussed), and a few statements that almost sound like the beginnings of some investigation but stop before they go anywhere (see: 76, 89).

Then he claimed, and for some reason people forgot that the game explicitly stated that cards (ie, powers) are randomized after alignment assignments, meaning alignment has nothing to do with powers. On top of that, the claim was strange because he waited until someone specifically asked him about it to mention his Watcher role.

Post-claim Lurker has been IIoA and a promise to look at the SC issue, though he's posted since that promise without having looked at the issue.

....

So yeah Lurker should be lynched.

VOTE: Lurker

That's well ahead of either Lurker's slip in #656 or Jal's catch in #674.

Which only mehdi has shown signs of wanting to refute.

Rofl, how can it be a misinterpretation when you don't even mention that post. I don't see it anywhere in Post #1867. Considering how diligent a player you consider yourself to be, you would think you would mention that post specifically, or reference to it if you had something important in it, especially since it was 400 pages. Heck people can't remember what cards they've received let alone what a sporadic poster wrote

the day before

.

Aside from the grammatical quibble that "you" also functions as a second person plural in English, there's a significant difference in tonal intensity between being "admonished" and being "beaten down". #1867 is certainly chiding, but it's hardly suppressive.

You're trying to argue semantics? Of all the points I made, this is what you're trying to argue? I don't care what meaning you give those words, it was being condescending, it was beating down town for something you didn't do either. You don't get town-cred for trying to work that angle.

You're being deliberately distracting and self-righteous. Oh look, I can play insult game too.

Town cannot win except by lynching. That mislynching is an unfortunate occurence doesn't change the facts.

More pointless stupidity and still defending a nonsensical viewpoint than addressing anthing. According to you, all this talk is pointless and every post would just be filled with voting, because that's scum hunting! Yeah....

I also strongly disagree with your stance that not voting is acceptable town behaviour. At the very least, effort should be made to identify scum by posting.

re: You and Mehdi, one of you is lying, and all your peculiar behaviour to the contrary, I consider it more likely that it's Mehdi. I am interested that you're reacting so strongly to even hypothetical suspicion, though.

Why not, I can see you trying to set me up day four. That's called foresight. Would you ignore someone trying to set you up for a lynch on the morrow when it could be lylo/mylo? Oh right, you would ignore it because its not a post with voting.

You haven't even bothered, at all, to consider that we're both telling the truth. It's "fact" to you that its one or the other. Sorry but there is no way you are town and know "factually" that one of us is definitely scum. I'm the one with the counter-claim to mehdi's night action and I don't know for sure. So there's no way you know for sure, unless you are scum. If mehdi is lying and flips scum, great, this has been easy and we can hold hands skipping into the sunset. Until that flip...

Open question to everyone else. Why does Xis have a town read? He only just today (real time) passed the mod in post count. Considering he's been here from the start, why are you allowing him to cruise through?

[SafetyDance]

Can you, or someone else, expand on the differences in 2 mylo lynches over 2 lylos lynches and how its an advantage? The way I see it at the moment is there is no differences, you still have to get the lynch right regardless.

Difference between a 2 kill MyLo and a 2 kill Lylo. By 2 kill I am refering to the ability to choose who the Vig Kills.

Mylo is 6 players, 2 of which are mafia. Lylo is 5 players, 2 of which are mafia. If we can kill two players during a day/night transition, in Lylo you cannot miss and hit town. So, if the Lynch is on Scum, then the vig should do nothing, and if the Lynch is on town, the Vig can do nothing.

On Mylo, If you hit Scum in the Lynch, thye vig will either hit scum and win or reduce the play to 3 people. If the Lynch is on Town, then the vig can attempt to shot the Scum and reach a 3 player LyLo. Without the Vig we would lose on Mylo if we lynch town.

Thanks for the explanation. It would be nice to get a vig shot though. In hindsight maybe should have happened yesterday but if we can get it on the next then that would be the same result anyway. Means Jal has to be protected with a watcher.

I just got a 2nd vote. Yay me

That makes up for you losing it day 1 then.

I only gained a macho attribute.

Well I'm glad these suddenly appeared. Notice you mentioned when I posted Post #2036

Will reply to Safety in a bit.

Still waiting on this.

Off on a semi-tangent but;

Really annoyed actually, that no one has mentioned the list post I did. That took me ages (the text, not the photo) yet no one has mentioned anything and only mehdi has claimed new info. What the hell?

We have an unclaimed card, it would be useful to know who's hands its in. There is no town reason for keeping it hidden, if we know everything then it helps us keep everyone accountable. Effectively this silence equates to admittance its in scum hands.

The only person with any real gain from keeping it hidden is Jake. Jal has another purple too but since she's already got a zillion (6) cards it doesn't seem likely she's got yet more.

So huge FOS right there.

[Jake from State Farm]

Re your question about xis - he isn't a town read. He's null

Re the unclaimed card - if it hasn't been claimed by now it's fairly obvious scum has it. I figured as much the last time, not sure why you brought it up again.

How do I gain from somebody hiding a card? I don't understand that

[SafetyDance]

I haven't voted because I don't see the Mehdi scum thing.

It's based on the fact that he would have to be a power role

, yet supposedly every role is determined by the randomly distributed cards. It doesn't make sense to me and the 'revelation' looks forced like Cheery is just trying to justify Medhi scum at all costs. The only rationale that Cheery has given has been that it would make sense from a balance perspective, yet this setup is supposedly supposed to be swingy, hence why I still don't buy it.

Wrong, it's based on the fact he has a scum partner that's entered in the night kills. The only person claiming he's a ninja is Cheery. And he doesn't look very town for doing so.

Thing is I'm not completely sold on Medhi town, either, because all these arguments he's giving are confusing as all hell. He's taking a more 'yeah I'm gonna be lynched and flip town so you all need to follow this plan' approach rather than the, in my opinion more town motivated, 'You guys shouldn't lynch me because I'm town. Here are my scum reads.' I'm having trouble reconciling the bad Cheery argument and the bad Mehdi play.

Steve McQueen would be rolling in his grave with that pathetic excuse of an escape route. Trying to cover your arse already? Good to know who to focus on if he does end up scum.

[SafetyDance]

Tennessee and New York avenue are the names of the oranges I have.

And safety do you really want to follow lynch all liars that hard? I know I've said this before but yes it applies. Read me for what I've said. I think I've said plenty and that reading me from what I've said and done is doable. Or am I really a null read without the role stuff? No idea should be blindly followed.

Anyways scum wise currently I'm at guille > xis > mhork (I chose to put mhork above xis mainly for actually pushing lurker after the claim). If we don't have someone scum flip today then thinking on it I don't want xis checking guille or mhork.

Thanks and yes.

Today's the last chance to get you out of the way before we end up in any mylo/lylo situation. I certainly don't want anyone with a possible lie/counter-claim in the game in that situation, I don't think anyone would. It clouds reads because have to be absolutely sure, so if you're town it gets you out of the way to avoid an easy lynch and if your scum, well it saves that lylo/mylo for another day. Win/win.

It's more of a good thing even if your play-style has been pro-town. With out that flip we wont know one way or the other if you are actually town. If you are, then us remaining can look back at your posts and read you for what you said without any fog, and use who you focus on and use that to help base accurate reads.

It's not being blindly followed (by me at least), I'd hope all my posts on the subject since speaking up would show I've actually thought on it. By rights maybe you should have been vigged so we got that flip but its now or never really. And I think I mentioned before the day before where your play hasn't been exactly overwhelmingly consistent.

[SafetyDance]

Re your question about xis - he isn't a town read. He's null

Re the unclaimed card - if it hasn't been claimed by now it's fairly obvious scum has it. I figured as much the last time, not sure why you brought it up again.

How do I gain from somebody hiding a card? I don't understand that

1) That's so useful, after 3 days of play you can't read someone one way or the other. What was it you were saying about Mhork being useless?

2) You mentioned it, great? You may have noticed I haven't been the busiest person on here this current day, we've had 436 posts, I may have missed it. The last time I mentioned which you are referring to, I presume it was when I did the list of cards posts. Care to point where you mentioned it? I'm bringing it up because I think its relevant and I haven't seen anyone aside for Jal about a week ago, give any thought to it.

3) You being stupid? You don't gain from somebody else hiding the card,

you

gain the most from hiding the card. You and Jal both have Purples, that much has been claimed. 1 card + 1 card = 2 cards and a power attained. Jal has already received one card last night and one card this day, he can't have another unless GNR is using some weird system for it. That leaves you with the most to gain from hiding it.

Otherwise, who the fuck knows who has it? You've got a better suspect?

[SafetyDance]

That's me caught up. Thank goodness.

Concerning the tables/night actions, I'm not good at them, at least with this many players so I don't mind it deferred to others, especially with my time constraints. I don't mind mehdi doing but I think it's fine that guille is discussing it too. As long as you both (and jake since he's joined in anyway) come to an agreement on both lynch scenarions I'm happy but we've got 3 days to sort it out.

What's the current list if town-flip/scum-flip?

I think people should be listing their current reads before a hammer, so they're at least held to a particular standpoint which can be used as a basis tomorrow. And it helps with an easy reference when trying to look back.

For instance, if Mehdi's scum, my reads are Mhork/Guille as scum partner

If Mehdi's town then likely out of Xis, Jake/CD, Mhork/Guile.

Which reminds me, something I forgot to mention in #2169 is if Mehdi flips town then the immediate question (at least fmpov) is to wonder how I got a didn't go anywhere tracking result (same as day 2).

[Jake from State Farm]

1. Poe means xis has to be town, but some of the things he does make me not so sure. Like investigating Jal instead of someone else.

2. I'm confused here. You brought up the point about someone having a card but not claiming it. You brought it up again recently. We realize that whoever has this card is probably scum. I just didn't see the point in bringing it up again. Everyone already had their chance to claim and additional card. I claimed the 1 card I received already, I only received just 1. Nobody bothered to ask me the name so I never mentioned it. Didn't think it's relevant but everyone knows the color. I got States Ave. but like I said the name means nothing.

3. Why am I the only one who would benefit from hiding a card? Why can't mhork, guile, mehndi, cheery, xis, or even you be hiding the card? Whoever has it and is hiding it is the one who has sonething to gain. I don't know why you felt the need to single me out.

Do I have a better suspect to who could be hiding it? Yes mhork, guile, mehndi, cheery, xis, or even you.

In your mind I'm really the only one who could be hiding it? Bullshit

[Jake from State Farm]

I also disagree with safety. Nobody should be making a list of their town/scum reads, especially if we are nearing mylo/lylo time.

[guille2015]

Really annoyed actually, that no one has mentioned the list post I did. That took me ages (the text, not the photo) yet no one has mentioned anything and only mehdi has claimed new info. What the hell?

I actually found it real awesome, and thanks for the effort. I didn't have time to comment on it, since I didn't have anything to say about it.

As I looked back at it. And I think it is important that the Purple card be claimed if it's in the hands of town. If it is in the hands of scum there is nothing we can do.