NY 161: Overly-Posh Mafia (POSH WIN - NIGHT X)

[TheReverend]

way too brazen.

Fuck. I hate myself.

[Vifam]

Eh whatever I don't think you're town anyway and you're probably continuing this argument because you're petty

[TheUnderachivers]

Mastin, you need to read the qt. Look what I found and tell me what you think.

What is the case on Underachievers?

He started to look dodgy around here.
Trying to make some look scummy when they clearly weren't.

Doesn't it kinda sound like he knows AJ's alignment?

Is there a case on him yet, or are we just lynching someone for the hell of it

but he had already posted a "case".

[TheUnderachivers]

I'm sorry, what? You deserved the lynch, you played poorly and yet... It's... not your fault? It's whose fault then? The players whom were more charismatic than you? Whom played better by some qualia that you're using to judge why you got lynched over others?

Fault is not black-and-white.

It's not 100% one person's fault. It's not 100% the other side's fault.

I am at fault, for not coming in and devoting myself to the game 'til it was too late.
Nero is partially (but not nearly as much) at fault for him being Nero.

But the town players on our lynch are equally at fault, for not realizing what our play meant. (That we are town.)
And any player who tries to brush it off is by definition trying to dodge that responsibility. You're trying to blame the pin entirely on us. You're refusing, absolutely stead-fast REFUSING to accept that you are in ANY way responsible for the mislynch, despite having been among its strongest pushers.

And that's where the scumminess comes in.

Is it entirely the town's fault, no. I'd say 65% mine, 10% Nero, and 25% town. But trying to pin 100% of it on it on us is a flat-out lie.

[TheUnderachivers]

1) Misrep. I actually said you're either really bad scum or really bad town. Thanks.

100% of the time this line is used, the person saying it means the latter. The former is there as a formality to make it look less scummy to say, but they always, ALWAYS know already that it's going to be town. They just want to make it look as if they don't.

You might have said "bad scum or bad town", but you already know it's town.

[ArcAngel9]

wtf is this shit

arcangel I know you are not this stupid you subbed into majiffy's game gracefully and got sus of obvscum adam right away. holy shit I have lost my town read on you.

I was confused and put myself in a wrong place.. anyways, What's done is done. Let's wait for the result.

^ not buying it. I feel somewhat confident that you are at the very least a decent player and you went from a no lynch to a hammer --------> wtf

that's was for to save the days... so that in the end we may good amount of time to play the game.
and don't tell me Majiffy was wrong about time frame that he indicated.
I rather kill myself if that wasn't true..

[TheReverend]

yeah UA is town. Fuck. Now I like his posts on maj and moz though.

[Vifam]

wtf is this shit

arcangel I know you are not this stupid you subbed into majiffy's game gracefully and got sus of obvscum adam right away. holy shit I have lost my town read on you.

I was confused and put myself in a wrong place.. anyways, What's done is done. Let's wait for the result.

^ not buying it. I feel somewhat confident that you are at the very least a decent player and you went from a no lynch to a hammer --------> wtf

that's was for to save the days... so that in the end we may good amount of time to play the game.
and don't tell me Majiffy was wrong about time frame that he indicated.
I rather kill myself if that wasn't true..

lmfao

[TheUnderachivers]

And I think vifam is scum. Matt said something about vifam being scum but IDK if Matt ever answered.

And Maj is just a terrible terrible player so could be scum/could be town. After Jacob flips scum he needs to be lynched in case.

[TheUnderachivers]

Nero doesn't have a big scumread on IAI ("only reason to suspect, is sheep of Hero plus Matt's selective reads on him and Hero". He's pretty much moving him off.

His suspects are:
Matt
vifam
Savage
...as scum.

He has UN as #4, and Maj as either an alternative or as a fifth. (Depends on total number of scum.)

Soyeah, we're not going to end this as in unison as I was hoping. :/

[Vifam]

Matt said something about vifam but idk if Matt ever answered

[Majiffy]

Fault is not black-and-white.

It's not 100% one person's fault. It's not 100% the other side's fault.

But the town players on our lynch are equally at fault, for not realizing what our play meant. (That we are town.)

What, is it also the fault of a person who gets shot for standing in front of a gun? Get the fuck outta here.

And how are we supposed to "realize" that you're town if

you don't show us

?

1) Misrep. I actually said you're either really bad scum or really bad town. Thanks.

100% of the time this line is used, the person saying it means the latter. The former is there as a formality to make it look less scummy to say, but they always, ALWAYS know already that it's going to be town. They just want to make it look as if they don't.

You might have said "bad scum or bad town", but you already know it's town.

Whenever my role is revealed, I'm going to give you a winky face. You'll know what it means.

And Maj is just a terrible terrible player so could be scum/could be town.

Oh the irony.

[Vifam]

What I'm saying is that sentence made no sense

[pirate mollie]

Inclined to agree with Rev. Really fucking stupid, but way too dumb for even the dumbest of scum.

well if you had bothered to read your game you would know she isn't that dumb!

I wish I had a dollar for every time someone said "oh scum never do that" and usually scum did do

exactly

that. fucking was on raven since d1 in the tr game, got close to getting her lynched, but then tr retarded town would say stupid shit like, "raven wouldn't say/do that as scum", "raven would never fake claim" (she has a long history of fakeclaiming wtf), "raven would never lie as scum" (holy shit you have got to be kidding me), "raven would never bus her entire team" (yes she would, she would have to with her rep).

scum win games by sometimes doing what town does not expect them to do.

[TheUnderachivers]

What, is it also the fault of a person who gets shot for standing in front of a gun?

Majiffy, the wording of this makes it so that you're saying us getting mislynched ISN'T our fault.

But yes, if getting shot is a metaphor for nightkilled, it is partially the nk'd person's fault, depending on the circumstances. (Generally, if they had good reads but didn't manage to convey 'em properly before their death.)

The guide's a mess, but my "MD Theory Project" goes into SIGNIFICANT detail about this concept.

And how are we supposed to "realize" that you're town if you don't show us?

We did. Actions speak louder than words. Subtleness is key. If I'm being blatant, then I'm being fake. I might be obviously town, but I'm not blatant with my method of showing it.

[Nero Cain]

I meant, Matt had called you scum. And then you asked him about why he changed his read on you. I don't know if he responded or not.

[TheUnderachivers]

I meant, Matt had called you scum. And then you asked him about why he changed his read on you. I don't know if he responded or not.

[Vifam]

He did respond

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 8#p4685028

[Majiffy]

Majiffy, the wording of this makes it so that you're saying us getting mislynched ISN'T our fault.

No. I'm arguing against your "fault is never 100%" statement. It isn't to be applied as a metaphor for your lynch.

But yes, if getting shot is a metaphor for nightkilled, it is partially the nk'd person's fault, depending on the circumstances. (Generally, if they had good reads but didn't manage to convey 'em properly before their death.)

The guide's a mess, but my "MD Theory Project" goes into SIGNIFICANT detail about this concept.

Now that I've explained (above) please respond appropriately, because this is really awfully not even related to what I was saying.

We did. Actions speak louder than words. Subtleness is key. If I'm being blatant, then I'm being fake. I might be obviously town, but I'm not blatant with my method of showing it.

Yes, actions speak louder than words. You vote someone while subsequently calling someone else (with a bigger wagon) scum [Mollie]. You neglect the gamestate until two days before deadline in a game with a

bankable deadline

. You provide awful, wishy-washy reads. You don't explain shit.

You're right, actions do speak louder than words. Thanks for not showing whatsoever that you're town. And if you are indeed town, then you should rest easy knowing that you fucking suck.

[Majiffy]

well if you had bothered to read your game you would know she isn't that dumb!

scum win games by sometimes doing what town does not expect them to do.

1) It isn't necessary for a person to be dumb to do incredibly dumb things
2) The problem with applying a generalized argument to a specific example is that you're not taking into account the nuances. This exact scenario; basically saying "ok who is scummy and why" and then after being told who and why, voting to

no lynch

? and then subsequently hammering less than an hour later? That's not scum out-WIFOMing town, that's legit scatterbraintown that isn't understanding the gamestate.

[Nero Cain]

You should always be voting your highest scumread regardless of wagon size. Except in the case of deadline.

[TheUnderachivers]

You should always be voting your highest scumread regardless of wagon size. Except in the case of deadline.

[Majiffy]

It's always in the case of a deadline. We're playing a bankable deadline game. Waiting all the way to the deadline is literally shooting town in the foot.

[TheUnderachivers]

No. I'm arguing against your "fault is never 100%" statement. It isn't to be applied as a metaphor for your lynch.

You're arguing against the idea that "fault is never 100%", for real life. Which is true...but has no relevance to the game.

I'm pointing out how, in general, it really isn't. Any time it is 100% (or even close to 100%) it's the exception which proves the rule, that it's not. This is ESPECIALLY true for the game of mafia. This really does get into MD, but it doesn't take a genius to figure out that very rarely is someone lynched entirely because that someone sucks. It is VERY often also because the people on their wagon are not perfect, have room to improve, and made a mistake.

In this case, lynching us.


And refusing to see this, refusing to admit that, yes, there is SOME fault on the player who STRONGLY PUSHED the mislynch, is why you're scum.

[Majiffy]

No relevance to the game? Are we not real-life people? Do we not exist in the same plane of reality? Fuck you.

Just remember that winky face, UA.