Mini 1397: War is Hell (Game Over)

[MattP]

Xalxe, I'd prefer you dead by this point than quadz specifically because of your quadz heal

kkb back me up

[Kinetic]

I'm getting even more sure that Matt is scum.

[MattP]

I'm getting even more sure that Matt is scum.

You know nothing about my playstyle

You should, like, take 1 hour out of your life to examine my meta and realize you're completely wrong

[Kinetic]

I'm getting even more sure that Matt is scum.

You know nothing about my playstyle

You should, like, take 1 hour out of your life to examine my meta and realize you're completely wrong

I have never, and will never, use meta. It rarely ever is useful in my book, and frankly when someone says "This is what I do as town, check my meta" I instantly think "This person is trying to act like they do as town, they must be scum". At best meta is null to me, and your insistence on it frankly is scummy to me. For me, play speaks for itself. And right now you're playing like scum.

[MattP]

Ooooh then your scumdar sucks

[Zdenek]

This is pretty town meta for Albert. And quite frankly, although Matt is now acting somewhat more like he was last game I played with him in, he wasn't always like this. He is reacting very similarly to how I acted in WiH2 up against a similar issue. If either of them is scum, I'd put it on Matt, but I'm not sure about that to vote on it right now. I'd go out on a ledge and say Albert were being town in this case. (Yes, even him attacking me... I think he still holds a grudge over 24 mafia, and that was my first game on the site )

Can I convince anyone to kill Zd with me?

Matt: Compare Albert's player here to Name of the Wind, as you were in that game too. In that game he was scum, you weren't. I think you'll find, Albert is actually acting more like his town self here than how he normally acts as scum.

[Zdenek]

Kinetic is still scum - no for contradicting himself on using meta.

I have no faith in the MattP wagon; although his vote on Quilford is weird.

Xalxe not voting Matt here is strange.

[Zdenek]

Sorry, that should be ... - now for ...

[quadz08]

This is pretty town meta for Albert. And quite frankly, although Matt is now acting somewhat more like he was last game I played with him in, he wasn't always like this. He is reacting very similarly to how I acted in WiH2 up against a similar issue. If either of them is scum, I'd put it on Matt, but I'm not sure about that to vote on it right now. I'd go out on a ledge and say Albert were being town in this case. (Yes, even him attacking me... I think he still holds a grudge over 24 mafia, and that was my first game on the site )

Can I convince anyone to kill Zd with me?

Matt: Compare Albert's player here to Name of the Wind, as you were in that game too. In that game he was scum, you weren't. I think you'll find, Albert is actually acting more like his town self here than how he normally acts as scum.

That is a solid catch

but Kinetic has been Town As Fuck

what do


KINETIC 'SPLAIN YOSELF

[Kinetic]

Zd is scum and I'm not surprised that he'll dig a nuanced discussion up and label it a contradiction? Perhaps it was a bit of an overstatement to say I hate meta defenses at all times. What I hate is "I play bad all the time as town, I'm playing bad now, obviously I'm town, look at my other games." That type of meta is scummy as fuck. Essentially what Matt is doing. Using meta to point out specifics of a person's playstyle, or knowing how someone plays over a long, long period (As it is with Albert and me, we've been in literally dozens of games together, over a period of five years), and feeling they are playing similarly to that is another thing. Also, meta discussions in early game are much different than the same discussions 50 pages later. Saying now "well I'm obviously town because of something I did in another game" is scummier on page 85 than on page 35.

Is it a bit of a contradiction. Yea, I overstated how I feel about meta in my last post, and that leads to a bit of a contradiction. Am I surprised at all that Zd is the one who is bringing it up? No. Zd has had a hard on for me all game long, he's scum, and he's sticking to this 'read' on me through all evidence otherwise. He is now cherry picking to support said 'read'. Even if I didn't think he was scum, its bad town play at best, and shouldn't be taken with anything but a grain of salt.

[Quilford]

Checking in; on phone.

[quadz08]

So basically, self-meta bugs you, but meta-on-others does not?

[Kinetic]

So basically, self-meta bugs you, but meta-on-others does not?

Bugs me a lot more, yes. Self meta, defining your own reactions to someone is better. Frankly, though, it isn't really good either, but its more acceptable early game when there isn't much more to go on, than late game when there is a lot more. The same argument by me now would be scummy, or at least, a lot scummier than 50 pages ago.

[quadz08]

hrm.

Fair for now, at least.

[Kinetic]

Basically, using meta as a defense of self is worst. Using it as a defense of others is a bit better. Using it as an attack is best. But of all, they are better to be used early game rather than later.

[quadz08]

I can agree with that synopsis, for the most part.

[Zdenek]

Kinetic is full of shit. He's refusing to investigate MattP's meta on the grounds that he has never and will never use meta, which is obviously bullshit. He used it on Albert and he asked others to go and check out MattP's meta. That does not sound like someone who thinks that meta is at best null.

On top of that, he's now saying that he thinks that using your town meta as a defense is scummy as fuck, but he didn't complain when Tierce did it.

Kinetic, what is the evidence that you are town?

[Xalxe]

Actually Kinetic's argument makes the most sense and I agree with it.

Also I'm p. sure I am voting for Matt, Zed.

[Kinetic]

Kinetic is full of shit. He's refusing to investigate MattP's meta on the grounds that he has never and will never use meta, which is obviously bullshit. He used it on Albert and he asked others to go and check out MattP's meta. That does not sound like someone who thinks that meta is at best null.

I'm not going to spend 10 hours researching Matt's games. That is ridiculous, and I have never found it to be useful. I was talking to Matt specifically about a game we all three were in, that JUST ended, and was VERY recent. That was highly relevant at the time. If I made the same argument right now, it would be highly suspicious in my opinion and probably scummy. Saying murkily "this is how I am" is not a meta defense I believe is useful.

On top of that, he's now saying that he thinks that using your town meta as a defense is scummy as fuck, but he didn't complain when Tierce did it.

Except... for a while I had Tierce high on my likely scum list for a while until recently, and I did not use Tierce's "meta defense" as a bonus for him. You're mad that I didn't say "that's bullshit" then, yet, I basically did, just not in so many words.

Kinetic, what is the evidence that you are town?

I'm not playing that game. My evidence is there in my play, the fact that you are the only one who doesn't see it is obvious. You're scum, trying to get one of the most town players in the game some suspicion is good for you and your team. I'm not complaining because, frankly, its the games when everyone is convinced I'm conftown that I get killed by the scum. But your entire mentality is pretty much based on an early game OMGUS that you pretty much have been tunneling the entire time. It doesn't mean anything, and every time you try to bring more, your bias is obvious.

[Zdenek]

- You're ignoring all the evidence that I am town.
- What evidence?
- I'm not telling.

Vote: Kinetic

He's scum. You need not look further than him pushing the Yos lynch over Matt's and LLD's when his case on Matt was better and LLD was scum.

[Zdenek]

Also the fact that he's suggesting that being suspicious of him is a scum tell boggles the mind.

[Kinetic]

- You're ignoring all the evidence that I am town.
- What evidence?
- I'm not telling.

That isn't how I play. I don't think "Oh, I'm doing this to look town". I play, I look for scum, and I let my play speak for itself. I couldn't really point to "this is townish" because that is basically going against how I play. I'll make a move that looks scummy if the end result is to catch scum. Its not "I'm not telling" so much that it is "you're ignoring anything that doesn't fit into your perfect puzzle that makes me scum". How about this: name one thing I've done that is town you consider townish.

If you have questions about why I did something, I'm more than happy to explain it, but I'm not going to play this game where I grovel and try to prove to you I'm town. There is nothing I can bring up that would prove that to you, you've already made up your mind, so why bother.

Also the fact that he's suggesting that being suspicious of him is a scum tell boggles the mind.

That isn't what I'm suggesting. I'm suggesting YOU are scum and that your suspicions are forced.

[Kinetic]

town

, that

you consider townish.

EBWOP: Forgot a word.

[Zdenek]

[quote:]
He's scum. You need not look further than him pushing the Yos lynch over Matt's and LLD's when his case on Matt was better and LLD was scum.[/quote]
Ok Kinetic, how is being suspicious of you over this forced?

[Tierce]

Prodded and coming back to more Zdenek and Kinetic bullshit. Why am I not surprised.

O hai MattP is still scum why are you all affluter over Kinetic's and ignore MattP's, Zdenek?