Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Legacy (Game Over)

[AngryPidgeon]

If acosmist is scum hes being reallllly ballsy with his "I voted Yates, I must be town" bullshit. But seriously, objectively bad opinions/advice are scumtells, right Acosmist? Derp.

[pappums rat]

Votecount 7.2

"Don't be shy sweetie, come over. Now if this isn't who we think it is, Draco, and we call him, he'll kill us all. We need to be absolutely sure." -Bellatrix Lestrange, Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows

pidgey - 1 (mykonian)
AngryPidgeon - 1 (Acosmist)

Not voting - mastin2, pidgey, AngryPidgeon, jasonT1981, Kublai Khan, Nero Cain

Nero Cain is V/LA.
mastin2 is V/LA until January 7.

With 8 alive it takes 5 to lynch.

The deadline for Day 7 is 10 PM EST on January 12, 2013.

[mykonian]

@jasonT1981 - His lack of answer is your answer.

@everyone - Am I the only one that has a problem with Nero Cain's claim? (Hint: It's not out-guessing the mod by a long shot)

He knows. He's doing it on purpose, to make the point. He's no longer talking to acosmist anymore, he's talking to you.

[Kublai Khan]

Me? I know Acosmist isn't confirmed town. I don't think anyone besides Acosmist has said that Acosmist is confirmed town. It's a wasted argument.

That said, do you think this game features a setup with a Neighborizer can neighborize multiple times & instantaneously *AND* a Reflexive Poisoner *AND* a mafia roleblocker?

I know Nero Cain is trying to make it taboo to "question the mod", but I'm sure we can collectively take a moment to do some reasonable post-mass claim analysis of this game and notice that things don't add up.

So again, mykonian, what do you think of Nero Cain's roleclaim?

[AngryPidgeon]

That said, do you think this game features a setup with a Neighborizer can neighborize multiple times & instantaneously *AND* a Reflexive Poisoner *AND* a mafia roleblocker?

Can you explain the significance to me? I get the instant neighborizer in a game with a RB point, but why mention acosmist here?

[AngryPidgeon]

Everyone has claimed right?

VT:
Me
Pidgey
KK
mastin2

Jason - can post in game after being lynched (VT essentially)
Acosmist - delayed? PGO
Mykonian - Messenger
Nero Cain - Neighborizer (3shot / instant / multiple)

[Kublai Khan]

If you had Nero Cain's role (as described), what's your N1 plan?

[AngryPidgeon]

Neighborize Acosmist and 2 other people probably.

I could see waiting a night, but ok. Point taken.

Not neighborizing the cop is pretty ridiculous too.

[Kublai Khan]

Well, assuming that Benmage got his results at the start of the day like most regular cops and he claimed Day 2, there's not terribly much of a point in neighborizing him.

But the major point is that even if Nero Cain's very questionable claim is true (big if), he certainly didn't use his ability with a townie mindset.

Also, that was a pretty blatant Beetlejuice.

@mod: Can you answer my previous question as to whether Nero Cain had picked up his day start PM at the time of my post? And can you tell me if you prodded him at any time this game day?

vote: Nero Cain

[pidgey]

prod dodging

A sudden plan came up in the weekend and i left, but I will start posting again tomorrow.

[pappums rat]

@mod: Can you answer my previous question as to whether Nero Cain had picked up his day start PM at the time of my post? And can you tell me if you prodded him at any time this game day?

I cannot answer the question regarding whether a player has picked up a day start PM or not because I believe that would be a violation of mod-player interaction principles. Regarding your other question, I declare all prods in the game thread, and I wouldnt have prodded him because he is V/LA.

[Kublai Khan]

Thank you mod.

So to review:
Nero Cain has a nonsensical, very uncommon roleclaim.
If that roleclaim is accurate, then he displayed a remarkably untown-like way of thinking when utilizing that role.
If we are assumed to be in a LYLO/MYLO situation, then he is definitely lurking and looking to swoop in to hammer.

If anyone thinks that there is a better lynch than Nero Cain today, then they need to present a real good fucking case.

@mykonian - Your pidgey case isn't better than mine.
@Acosmist - Your AngryPidgeon case (?) isn't better than mine.

[AngryPidgeon]

note that mastin mostly ignored Yates all game before this.

Spoiler:

Yates:

Why, exactly, is MoI town to you? I want more than just a short description here. I want at least two or three paragraphs, since with how strongly you're advocating it, I expect there to be a reason for that level of conviction.

More than that, I also need a lay of the land from you--a roadmap to who you DO suspect. Most to least, along with a description as to why.

Also, if you have a townread on anyone else in my suspect pool (MoI/Aco/Kise/Cheery Dog), you're going to have to explain that as well.

Also also, why have you been so quiet as of late? You were one of the most verbose players on day two, but like Khan (only moreso), your activity has been dropping with each day. Please remedy that; we need a strong voice like yours in here if we're going to get a scum lynch.

Zabriel: Out of all the mislynches we could have today, yours would be the one I would resist the least. Why do you think that is?

And mastin agreed with my reasoning so I guess he kind of did too.

Indeed.

Zab lynch isn't happening.

We've got three options:

AP, Cheery Dog, and PV.

I'm reconsidering my PV read, since I got a gut feelin' all of a sudden last night that AP was town, but I need to think it through.

It's worth considering and looking in to, since Yates's drop in activity has pretty much waned my townread on him considerably.

But obviously, he's not getting lynched today. Definitely worth a careful consideration day five, but not today.

In his post to Yates he calls yates a strong voice and heavily implies Yates is town by saying we need his input to get a scum lynch. Call Zab his favorite ML, and lists me/PV/Cheery as good lynches.

Then out of nowhere says that yates is a nullish read now due to lurking but keeps it open either way. Doesnt say anything about lynching Yates.

At this stage, I'd rather a PV lynch than an AP lynch, but I don't like a PV lynch. I won't support a myk lynch, but I can hear arguments for a Zab/Jason lynch. Especially if there's no Cheery Dog support.

Now open to lynching Me/PV/cheery/Zab/Jason. Still nothing about Yates despite the random comment that he is no longer a townread.

Votecount 4.12

"Did you see his face? Maybe if the fat lump had given this a squeeze, he'd have remembered to fall on his fat ass." -Draco Malfoy, Harry Potter and the Philosopher's/Sorcerer's Stone

AngryPidgeon - 5 (Kublai Khan, Acosmist, Nero Cain, PeregrineV, Cheery Dog)
PeregrineV - 3 (zabriel, Kise, AngryPidgeon)
zabriel - 3 (MagnaofIllusion, jasonT1981, mykonian)
mykonian - 1 (pidgey)
jasonT1981 - 1 (Yates)
Cheery Dog - 1 (mastin2)

Not voting -

Nero Cain is V/LA.
MagnaofIllusion is V/LA until Thursday.

pidgey has recieved his first prod.

With 14 alive it takes 8 to lynch.

The deadline for Day 4 is 2 AM EST on December 15, 2012.

Mastin is totally willing to start vanity wagons.

*sigh*

I really hate this game.

Every damn suspect of mine.
Every dang person.

AP's dropping towntells like a boss.
Cheery Dog just softclaimed a PR.
Aco's going to be tested by Cheery Dog.

Kise and MoI are under revision still but are currently on the town side of null.
PV's posting gives mixed emotions, but there's definitely enough positive to make me not want him lynched.

GAH.

Screw it.

Vote: Zabriel.

Despite Zab being a "mislynch" previously. Mastin is still ignoring the shit out of Yates despite being ok with starting vanity wagons evidently.

And this Zab compromise wagon sucks. Does anyone actually have a townread on Yates?

And, yeah, I'd be down for a Yates wagon.
VOTE: Yates.

I mention support for a Yates wagon and out of the woodwork mastin goes from Town-> Null-town -> "Ya lets lynch yates!" on Yates. 2 minutes after I suggest it. No hesitation especially since he was reading me as scum all around that time, he really has no hesitation whatsoever about my suggestion? And Mastin is DEFINITELY someone that takes all actions done by scumreads as incredibly important info.

Lynch: Our options for today are zabriel and Yates.

Suddenly its only Zabriel/Yates? Why did Mastin cast a blind eye to Yates ALL GAME up until this happened. Seriously look for it. He practically ignores Yates up until the quick Town->???->scum progression that happened IMMEDIATELY after I brought up the idea of Yates wagon.

Our options for today are zabriel and Yates.

Uhh... why exactly? Because I won't tell you/scum my list of suspects?

This just looks forced as fuck. Yates had nothing to say about how sudden it was? Or anything to say about the fact that it was my suggestion for a counterwagon and Mastin just jumped on the sentiment immediately?

--No lynch happens --

Then we see this the next day. Note that Acosmist and I are voting Yates and at least some people were voting Zab.

Every player in the game needs to post one of these three possibilities in their next post:

"If I was the messenger, I did not target Aco"
"If I was the messenger, I targeted Aco; nothing unusual seems to have happened"
"If I was the messenger, I targeted Aco; something unusual happened"

Needless to say, Nero and I were incredibly busy last night. There were 11 messages going into night. Now there's almost 60.

VOTE: Kublai Khan Man.

Where the fuck did that read come from? Both of mastins favorite wagons are going full steam right at the start of the Day and we get THIS distraction? Nooooope. No way town-MAstin gave zero fucks about Yates AND Zab getting wagoned and throws this bullshit post out there. Especially since he was reading town on Mykonian ALL GAME.

He seriously has this juggling act going on at the start of D5.
1. Votes KK. Dspite not mentioning him at all in his plethora of acceptably lynches from the day before (NL day).
2. throws a lot of bullshit around about mykonian being scummy for not targeting Acosmist. Despite not actually pushing that lynch. And despite calling Mykonian town all game.
3. Ignores Yates
4. Calls Zab scum and wont entertain the thought of a different lynch.

None of which adds up even remotely.

That's my point. I don't know.
I don't know where I'd go if you flipped town.

Heck, I don't even know where I'd go if you flipped scum.

And mastin has zero idea where to go after Zab? The fuck happened to his Yates read? Why is he voting KK?

Spoiler: Side note fuck you acosmist

Votecount 5.1

"You live in Alaska too? You are aware of the Alaskan Indian-Eskimo Olympics?" -Vulcan Raven
"Yeah, I know it. You must be a real threat in the muktuk eating contest." -Solid Snake, Metal Gear Solid

zabriel - 5 (Yates, MagnaofIllusion, Kise, jasonT1981, mykonian)
Yates - 2 (AngryPidgeon, Acosmist)
MagnaofIllusion - 1 (Nero Cain)
Kublai Khan - 1 (mastin2)

Not voting - zabriel, PeregrineV, pidgey, Kublai Khan

Nero Cain, zabriel and Kise are V/LA.
MagnaofIllusion and mastin2 are V/LA until Monday.

With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch.

The deadline for Day 5 is 7 PM EST on December 26, 2012.

So right now, I'm putting heavy emphasis on Zabriel, Jason, and Khan, with an outside chance of Yates.

Yates is now a considerably lesser read?

Yates is scum.

Yates is oh

so

scum.

And Jason's prob-scum, too.

Posts on this page, not good.

(Dealing with my computer having crashed, so little bit busy.)

Yates is scum again! But Yates still wont vote him. and Yates has been tlaking to Zab all day like he thinks he is town:

Speaking of which, I like what zabriel's doing; he's increasing his activity. Keep it up, zab. That's exactly what you need to do.

But mastin wont try and go for Yates despite there being support for it??

VOTE: Yates.

Eh, makes more of a statement than my Khan vote.

Bit busy juggling other games at the moment, though I'll be reading 'til a hammer comes. ("What? You said you'd hammer!" I'm a goldfish. I changed my mind. )

He actually does move onto Yates later with a shitty explanation. Does not read like he cares about actually getting someone other than Zab lynched.

Also, Im too lazy to quote it right now, but Yates CONTIUNALLY goes out of his way to respond to mastin over other attackers and implies mastin is scummy but NEVER had any interest in voting him or listing him a scummy. Not trying to get mastin lynched (practically ignoring him) but coming out of the woodwork to omgus and call him scummy when Mastin votes him whilst ignoring everyone else? mmm..

VOTE: mastin2
All the cool kids are starting wagons.

[pappums rat]

Just so everyone knows, I will have zero internet access until Tuesday night.

[mykonian]

Me? I know Acosmist isn't confirmed town. I don't think anyone besides Acosmist has said that Acosmist is confirmed town. It's a wasted argument.

That said, do you think this game features a setup with a Neighborizer can neighborize multiple times & instantaneously *AND* a Reflexive Poisoner *AND* a mafia roleblocker?

I know Nero Cain is trying to make it taboo to "question the mod", but I'm sure we can collectively take a moment to do some reasonable post-mass claim analysis of this game and notice that things don't add up.

So again, mykonian, what do you think of Nero Cain's roleclaim?

Sorry, I've been avoiding this. You make it sound like this is clear cut, and I'm sure it has something to do with the instantaneous thing... but I don't get it. What exactly is the problem?

Thank you mod.

So to review:
Nero Cain has a nonsensical, very uncommon roleclaim.
If that roleclaim is accurate, then he displayed a remarkably untown-like way of thinking when utilizing that role.
If we are assumed to be in a LYLO/MYLO situation, then he is definitely lurking and looking to swoop in to hammer.

If anyone thinks that there is a better lynch than Nero Cain today, then they need to present a real good fucking case.

@mykonian - Your pidgey case isn't better than mine.
@Acosmist - Your AngryPidgeon case (?) isn't better than mine.

my pidgey case is on scum though, even if I can't use his roleclaim as leverage.



And you are wrong AP. All the cool kids bandwagon sensible wagons.

vote mastin

[Kublai Khan]

Sorry, I've been avoiding this. You make it sound like this is clear cut, and I'm sure it has something to do with the instantaneous thing... but I don't get it. What exactly is the problem?

Would you create a setup with a mafia roleblocker and a town role that can't be roleblocked? Especially a somewhat inconsequential role like "neighborizer"?

[mastin2]

Need to continue from 159. (Yes, I'm that behind. ) Rough week and all that.

For now, bottom of 158.

Your "read" evolved pretty quickly when I called you out on pushing a bullshit lynch on Jason through.

Welcome to mafia.
Reads can change from as little as a single post.

Ok, why do you worry about this?

Well, Yates was scum, and Aco voted the person who quite frankly was my strongest townread.

(Side-note, Kise dieing after MoI IS making me reconsider one of my core reads. Pidgey is not one of them. Need to see the posts after to tell why he died.)

Btw,

Myk's the messenger, and his stances kinda felt town. :/ (

Among my top suspects by POE

, I'd guess.)

And if you're town, you still can, but I'm preeeeeeeeeetty sure you're scum, here, myk.

/head not in the game atm. Multitasking. Sorry, will get back to this game within a few hours (I think). Wish I could get more content in this post.

Would be voting Khan right now, without reading anything, for the record.

[AngryPidgeon]

(Side-note, Kise dieing after MoI IS making me reconsider one of my core reads. Pidgey is not one of them. Need to see the posts after to tell why he died.)

Kise suspected you and Jason iirc.

[mastin2]

Bussing before Yates finished his claim? I don't know if that's really mastin-like.

Much as I'd love the towncred...yes, heck yes it's Mastin-like.

I bus like a champ. It's instinct. I have townplay so ingrained into my instincts that even as scum, I act town. It's partially also a holdover from when I was a worse player: I expected to be the first scum down, so that my bussing would make my buddies look better. And nowadays, it's also so that I can get free towncred when (much to my shock and horror) a scumbuddy dies, via by lynch or (more commonly) nightkill.

Yes, it's a bad habit, one which I really should break, since I've never had a solo win, but it's well within my scum meta to bus in lylo.

Granted, in lylo, I mostly try to go for the win, since I've never had a solo scum win, meaning unless I feel as if the chances of us winning as a team are virtually zero on that day, I'll be gunning for victory, since you never know what might crop up on future days.

I guess that could give me some minor towncred, but of course, you could always go for the conspiracy theory that Yates and I planned for me to vote him and for him to botch up his claim, get lynched, and give me that towncred for being there before then. Soyeah, it's preeeeeeetty much null, no matter how much I wish it wasn't.


Also, if you couldn't tell, Kise's death has made me paranoid about Nero. He's been far less active in our QT. And in his post during the night, he asked me if I thought Yates was distancing from Kise, but made no mention of Aco (not sure what to make of that, honestly). And both Kise and MoI were the strongest advocates of Nero being scum.

If I had to make a guess, KK'd still be scum. I was also thinking there was one scum in jason/Aco, but I'm not sure who; lean towards jason. And again, prob-scum between myk and Nero. If forced to at gunpoint, I'd lynch myk over Nero, but right now, I honestly don't know.

I'm going to read for a mastin2-Yates connection now/tonight because my town read on him is in need of re-visiting.

Conveniently after myk and pidgey both say they need to re-evaluate me and that I've blown my towncred, Khan does this. Pretty much by-the-book opportunism, here.

By the way, legit question--
Who am I scum with? I've seen plenty of "Mastin is scum"-reads as of late. But I am not an interactions-hiding master. I lack subtleness. I am as blatant a scum player as I can be. So if I'm scum, my interactions with my scumbuddies should be incredibly obvious, no?

Side-note, thinking of scumbuddies, I'm bringing myself back to AV. Remember how I made the "Aco-Zoro share the same alignment" post very early on in the game?
I really, really, reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeally want to trust my old self on that.
Now I'm obviously not quite ready to make that call

yet

, but that (combined with a gut feeling of AV's vote pattern) makes me leaning on jason being scum heavier than before.

[mastin2]

Mastin, what caused you to change your read on Acosmist? Why did you think he was scum for awhile in the first place?

Read on Mykonian?

Change back to town? Honestly, I can't remember. I think it was around the time I made that list of questions for everyone to answer/address. So about the same time my read on MoI began to change, I guess. It definitely wasn't until after I began to work with players rather than me having antagonized them. I really can't remember what it was that sparked it. Coulda been trusting MoI (who had weak meta), coulda been Aco's approach compared to others' approaches at the same time, maybe I iso'd him and saw something which looked town, I really don't know. It just did.

Change to scum? I saw highly reactionary play, and basically saw nothing but active lurking. His whole stance on Tammy seemed hypocritical given his own claim, and it seemed like he was legitimately afraid of Tammy vigging him. Add in MoI (scumread #1 eventually) defending him off of something incredibly weak, and a sketchy claim as well.

I mean, right now, he still feels town to me. I really don't have a bundle-load of reasons as to why. Maybe I will, after having thought things through and going to check stuff, but right now, he's at the edge: close to being removed from the suspect pool, and

almost

out of it, but not yet strong enough for that final push. Not when I haven't weighed both sides properly.

[mastin2]

Oops. Got so passionate on Aco that I forgot the part about myk.

My read on myk at the moment is almost dead-null. Slightly on the scum side, but I really don't have any confidence in him.

[AngryPidgeon]

By the way, legit question--
Who am I scum with? I've seen plenty of "Mastin is scum"-reads as of late. But I am not an interactions-hiding master. I lack subtleness. I am as blatant a scum player as I can be. So if I'm scum, my interactions with my scumbuddies should be incredibly obvious, no?

Scum with Yates. BTW, this question alone is enough reason to lynch mastin.

Your read on Nero is that he is likely scum for being inactive and all that. But you would rather lynch Mykonian. But mykonian is almost dead null. Riiiiight Mastin. Oh also Jason/Acos/KK are likely suspect.

[mastin2]

Its Mastin isn't it.

You wish.
And quite frankly, I wish as well.

If this were a scumgame, it'd be in my top 15% of my games. Not bottom 15.
After all, I lived to mylo! With no scum deaths up 'til Yates! Every single day, I could win. If I got lynched, my team could win. If a scumbuddy got lynched, I could still win tomorrow. If I got lynched then, my final scumbuddy could still win, and if they got lynched, then I'd have a shot at winning. All the power roles are dead or under heavy suspicion. Every single player has a lot town and a lot scum, so I can target just about anyone I want for a mislynch and be guaranteed to get at least SOME support for it. And I can defend whoever the heck I want to, for much the same reason!

As scum, that's the ideal game. I

dream

of being that good as scum. It's a lifelong ambition of my career, for that ideal scum game. Not a "perfect scum game", mind you, where the scum win with no casualties. An ideal scum game, where the circumstances are ripe for victory. Just having it set up is an achievement of skill, and winning it would be even better.

Nope. I'm not that good. I wish I were, but I'm not. I just don't have that kind of skill in me. This is not a scum game. There's nothing to be proud of in this game. Zero. Zilch. I've done another permanent shame to my record, for having sucked so long, and worse, having lived 'til mylo. In a mini game, that's bad, but still tolerable. In a Large Game, that's the scum telling you that you're their honorary scumbuddy.

I hate living to lylo, and it's always a sign that I've done abysmally bad during the game. I've been in this situation far too many times. People make that comment. "Mastin, if you're scum, you've played a damn-good game." And I agree. If I were scum, they'd be completely and totally correct. I'd have played an excellent game, have done well, and have been a good player.

But the thing is, I've been town every single time someone has made that comment.

[mykonian]

Sorry, I've been avoiding this. You make it sound like this is clear cut, and I'm sure it has something to do with the instantaneous thing... but I don't get it. What exactly is the problem?

Would you create a setup with a mafia roleblocker and a town role that can't be roleblocked? Especially a somewhat inconsequential role like "neighborizer"?

Oh, that makes sense. No I wouldn't.

What does acosmists claim have to do with this?

Need to continue from 159. (Yes, I'm that behind. ) Rough week and all that.

For now, bottom of 158.

Your "read" evolved pretty quickly when I called you out on pushing a bullshit lynch on Jason through.

Welcome to mafia.
Reads can change from as little as a single post.

Which is why you look at what is said in such post.

I voted you there. Voting people on a whim just because they vote you is just scummy. Indeed, you are mafia.

[mastin2]

mykonian/mastin?

Sending a message to your scumbuddy once, good WIFOM.

Sending a message to your scumbuddy twice, pretty dang stupid and absolutely pointless.

Myk could be scum, but he's not scum with me, just as he's not scum with you, AP.