Mini 374 - Numbers Mafia, Game Over!

[Adele]

I'm convinced your behaviour is a safe hiding place for scum. Taking refuge in a safe hiding place for scum is scummy.

I play as best I can, and I'm not wavering from that to fulfill your plea to adapt to your style. I'm conviced that if I did, I'd be a worse player. No game.

Vote: Sailor Jerry

In case anyone's wondering, that puts him on 3. No full votecount from me, I'm too lazy and no-one else is at any risk whatsoever.
Sailor Jerry: 3 (ROTN, Mert, Adele)

[Mert]

Jerry, please post a detailed list of who you find suspicious in this game. As it stands you've claimed vanilla and behaved like scum so there's still a reasonable chance that you'll be lynched today. I'd like you to help the town as best you can by saying who you do and don't find suspicious among the remaining 11 players so that even if you are still lynched we'll have something to work from tomorrow. Thanks.

[Maz Medias]

I can now happily

Vote: Sailor Jerry

. His passive-aggressive defense and lack of other insight shows, in my mind, that he's either scum or really really bad.

[Sailor Jerry]

Jerry, please post a detailed list of who you find suspicious in this game. As it stands you've claimed vanilla and behaved like scum so there's still a reasonable chance that you'll be lynched today. I'd like you to help the town as best you can by saying who you do and don't find suspicious among the remaining 11 players so that even if you are still lynched we'll have something to work from tomorrow. Thanks.

Fair post.

Rangerofthenorth is still my top pick.

I'm always suspicious of people that latch on to easy targets to bandwagon - which today is obviously me.

Of the others voting for me, Maz Medias has made a couple of reasonable posts, although they were short (which, to me, is a sign of someone who's checking the thread but not looking for scum).

Adele's jumped on early, but she's made her reasons clear, and having looked at other games she's been in, it seems consistent with the way she plays.

So I guess I don't have a list yet. But watch the lurkers.

[RangeroftheNorth]

I didn't latch on to an easy target for a bandwagon. I pointed out the two people I found most suspicious. I voted for one, and FoSed the other. You had a huge over reaction to my post and interpreted it incorretly. Even when you were corrected, you left your vote on me. I voted for you because I found you by far the most suspicious player in the game. The only reason I didn't vote for you earlier was that I was still hoping my vote on Brizzy Boi would get a reaction. I decided that it was much more important to put my vote on someone I was highly suspicious of. You have played in a way that is very suspicious, and you aren't trying to help the town, but merely defer the bandwagon on yourself. The reason you are an easy bandwagon target is because you act like scum. There's still a chance that you aren't scum, but you have done nothing to convince me of that.

[Zindaras]

I disagree with you there, Jerry. Ranger pretty much came in and actually created a viable discussion. I do not think that is scummy at all.

[Maz Medias]

I'm not big on Ranger because of that "I'm okay with lynching bad town" comment, which to me is indicative of ulterior motivation.

[Sailor Jerry]

Rangerofthenorth is still my top pick.

I'm always suspicious of people that latch on to easy targets to bandwagon - which today is obviously me.

I should clarify that these two statements aren't related. That's not what I'm accusing ranger of at all.

[Mert]

I should clarify that these two statements aren't related. That's not what I'm accusing ranger of at all.

So is it still the bit about him voting for somebody for random voting? Because I've just skimmed your posts again and I haven't really seen much accusation beyond that and it seems a little weak for how vehemently you're pushing the idea of Rangerscum.

[RangeroftheNorth]

I'm not big on Ranger because of that "I'm okay with lynching bad town" comment, which to me is indicative of ulterior motivation.

It's true that I have an ulterior motivation, but it's to the game of mafia, not to any group in this game. I also think Sailor Jerry is the most likely person to be scum. If I didn't, I wouldn't be voting for him, but I wanted to explain why claiming that playing badly was his playstyle wasn't going to get him off the hook.

[BrizzyBoi]

Sorry for the absence have had major troubles finding time to post in most of my games. No excuse I know but will hopefully be able to contribute more now.

[RangeroftheNorth]

That's very nice, but I'd like to see some actual content from you.

[Sailor Jerry]

I wanted to explain why claiming that playing badly was his playstyle wasn't going to get him off the hook.

That wasn't my claim.

[Maz Medias]

I'm not big on Ranger because of that "I'm okay with lynching bad town" comment, which to me is indicative of ulterior motivation.

It's true that I have an ulterior motivation, but it's to the game of mafia, not to any group in this game. I also think Sailor Jerry is the most likely person to be scum. If I didn't, I wouldn't be voting for him, but I wanted to explain why claiming that playing badly was his playstyle wasn't going to get him off the hook.

Elaborate on your motivation, 'cause I don't think I get it.

[RangeroftheNorth]

I wanted to explain why claiming that playing badly was his playstyle wasn't going to get him off the hook.

That wasn't my claim.

No thanks. I think that in the long term it would be better to either give you a claim or let you lynch me. That way you can get used to the way I play, and you'll learn from your mistakes in the long run.

This right here is one example of where you said this. You didn't refer to your playstyle as bad, but anytime you refuse to justify your actions, and make no defense except a claim, it is bad for the town. If you are town, claiming gives more information to the scum. If your scum, you'll often have a safe claim, or some other way of knowing what to claim. Claiming doesn't prove innocence, but it can often help the scum, thus, refusing to anything but claim is a bad playstyle.

@Maz Medias: I think that allowing players to play in a way that is bad for the town because it's their playstyle is bad for the game of mafia in general. It allows players to act scummy, which makes the game more difficult for the town. Thus, I'm not going to accept playstyle as an excuse for scummy play.

[Sailor Jerry]

. o O (I wonder what we'd all be discussing now had I not claimed...)

[neongrey]

Probably how threatening to claim the minute someone votes you is hideously scummy.

[Adele]

Or we'd be pressuring you to actually say something useful still. I'm with Ranger on this one - I have no time for people like Sailor Jerry who expect that the game of mafia should adapt to them rather than vice versa, and I think if

I

gave them what they ask for - special treatment - it'd make me a worse player.

The only thing you've given us is that Ranger's your top pick - you don't tell us anyone else you trust or distrust (as near as I can tell, you suspect Maz and me average amounts). You've not given us reasons why you distrust Ranger either.

Do you have any reasoned thoughts

at all

?
I almost want to change that question because it seems so incredibly harsh, but then I look back and SJ's spent the whole time refusing to share thoughts; now he's shared

one

, but we're in the dark as to whether there's any reasoning behind it. If there is, it's clearly a secret.

[Sailor Jerry]

Every player is different, Adele.

The trick is to look and see who's scum and who's not. This is me as town - whether you like it or not. If you choose to lynch people because they don't play the wiki-recommended-Adele-way of doing things, then so be it.

But I think that your unwillingness to explore options other than taking on the easy lynch, coupled with the fact that you would rather play the part of the metagame police than find scum - that's what makes you a worse player.

However, mafia here is a game of personalities and I'm prepared to go down purely on the basis of that. You don't have to like me :)

As for asking me who I trust or distrust, my stance is the same as it's been all along. We require more information. I headed off my pointless bandwagon with a claim in the hope that we could go and find some scum instead of piling stupid lazy votes on me while scum hide in the background.

However, since you all persist in continuing it anyway, don't be surprised if you wake up on Day 2 with no information whatsoever, and don't say I didn't warn you!

And yes, I'm aware that the personality issues mean that you're highly unlikely to take my advice, but I will settle for an I-told-you-so when the town goes down.

[Nightfall]

Repeat....

That way you can get used to the way I play, and you'll learn from your mistakes in the long run.

So it would be our mistake to go after someone who claims without being provoked? Or just you? Or just you when your town? What about when your scum? are you going to just come out and claim then too? That last one is assuming you aren't infact scum right now.

P.S. The only way scum gets to hide in the background is if one person has united nearly everyone against them. Oh jeez, look whats going on right now.....Oh this looked out really well...

[Sailor Jerry]

Blah blah blah...

How about something constructive, you cretin?

[Nightfall]

How about something constructive from you too? Not including a claim...

[Nightfall]

Or maybe you could just answer my question....

[Mert]

How about something constructive, you cretin?

To be fair, Jerry, I don't think many people play Mafia on this site to be insulted. There are better ways of expressing yourself than personal attacks, y'know?

Aside from that, I've been in a number of games where somebody has given up and said "fine, lynch me and you'll be sorry when you see that I'm town" rather than give a reasoned defense. To date, the people that have done that in games I have been in have never once been pro-town. So in terms of the big metagaming hoohah we have going on at the moment, as far as I'm concerned the "I'll love saying 'I told you so'" bit is a scumtell.

[Adele]

But I think that your unwillingness to explore options other than taking on the easy lynch, coupled with the fact that you would rather play the part of the metagame police than find scum - that's what makes you a worse player.

However, mafia here is a game of personalities and I'm prepared to go down purely on the basis of that. You don't have to like me

As for asking me who I trust or distrust, my stance is the same as it's been all along. We require more information. I headed off my pointless bandwagon with a claim in the hope that we could go and find some scum instead of piling stupid lazy votes on me while scum hide in the background.

OK, I'm trying to take you seriously here and not just get into a shouting match.

You're mad at all of us for going for the "easy lynch". You say there's not enough info out there for you to suggest anything better. Do you see the contradiction there?

You say that it's a game of personalities. Well, it's also a game of skill. If your personality appears to be destructive to this game, and you aren't employing your skills, how long do you think we should carry you (that's a serious question).

You want to go find some real scum, you want lots of lovely information - yet

you

are the person who appears, top me, to be contributing the

least

to that goal.

So help me out here. What would you have me do?