Mini 374 - Numbers Mafia, Game Over!

[neongrey]

My, that's defensive of you, Jerry. It's pretty clear in his post why he made the vote he did.

[Mert]

Wow, Jerry. I have to agree, that looked might reactionary.

Vote: Sailor Jerry

[Sailor Jerry]

No, he voted someone for

hypocrisy

- Brizzi had a go at Mini Neo for only having posted once - in Brizzi's

second

post.

Heh yeah I really should read better.

Anyone who's played with me before will be aware that I claim early when I'm on the receiving end of a bandwagon based upon idiocy. Do you want to hear it now?

[Mert]

LOL Jerry. I know it's your new playstyle and all but

please

don't claim yet

Unless you're scum of course. You can claim scum if you like.

[RangeroftheNorth]

You have

one

vote. I wouldn't really call that a badwagon.

[Sailor Jerry]

No worries. I'll just sit around and wait while you find crap reasons to vote me.

But seriously, this game will move along much faster if I do it now. It never goes any other way, and it just gives scum a good place to hide.

Then when we're done, we can go lurker hunting like I said in the first place.

[neongrey]

You get one vote on you, and you go to this extent? Threatening, demanding, even, to claim, saying every reason to vote you is crap (and no, trying to mislead people as to the reasons for another person's vote is not crap).

You could claim doctor at this point, and I doubt I'd buy it.

[RangeroftheNorth]

No worries. I'll just sit around and wait while you find crap reasons to vote me.

Apparently, you'll sit around and give us reasons to vote you.

But seriously, this game will move along much faster if I do it now. It never goes any other way, and it just gives scum a good place to hide.

There isn't any particular need to move the game along faster. More participation would be great, but there isn't any reason why we need to hurry to get things finished. We should work to fully resolve each issue before we go on to something else. Merely claiming isn't going to resolve the fact that you acted in a suspicious manner, and, when even a slight amount of pressure was put on you, became even more suspicious.

Then when we're done, we can go lurker hunting like I said in the first place.

I don't think that four pages into day one is neccesarily the best time to go lurker hunting. Even if we did, up until pressure was put on you, you were one of the worst offenders. Not

the

worst, but up there.

I still want to hear from Brizzy Boi. He is now late on his promised review, and didn't respond at all to my arguments. I'll leave my vote there for now, but Sailor Jerry is getting more and more suspicious.

[RangeroftheNorth]

Also,

Mod

could we get prod's on BlueSin, MiniNeo, and Maz Medias. None of them have posted in at least a week.

[Nightfall]

and it just gives scum a good place to hide.

It gives them a good place to hide? If you claim or if you dont?
I dont really follow...

[Adele]

Sailor Jerry, I consider crazy overdefensiveness and inappropriate reactions to appropriate suspcion to be (unfortunately) a more reliable and a stronger scumtell than lurking. If you're going to defend yourself, please hit the first line of defence (cogent, proportionate argument dealing with the accusations and facts) before the last (and claiming's barely a defense at all; it's often as flimsy as an appeal to emotions; "don't lynch me because I'm the doc I can't prove it or anything but bad thing's'll happen if I die").

[neongrey]

Claiming also doesn't address any of the reasons why people are suspicious of you. Nor does going 'oh, their reasons are crap'. If they are, explain why, hm?

[Zindaras]

I'm going away for the weekend, I will be back somewhere on Sunday. I'd appreciate it if I wouldn't have to be replaced.

Also, Sailor Jerry's not making sense. I'm leaving my vote on the lurker I was voting for.

[RangeroftheNorth]

If we include Brizzy Boi as an active player, we are currently at 8. If we don't (and I'm not sure we should) we are at 7. That means we have to be unanimous in any decision to lynch. We need the rest of the players playing.

[Sailor Jerry]

If you're going to defend yourself, please hit the first line of defence (cogent, proportionate argument dealing with the accusations and facts) before the last.

No thanks. I think that in the long term it would be better to either give you a claim or let you lynch me. That way you can get used to the way I play, and you'll learn from your mistakes in the long run.

[neongrey]

Saying it's your playstyle when you're acting highly suspiciously only works for certain people, and you don't seem to understand why it works for them.

You're not exactly contributing anything to the town besides standing around looking shifty. And no, a snap claim is not a contribution.

If you want to dissuade the suspicion on you, you're going to need something more substantial than "I can claim! It would be a horrible mistake to lynch me! When there's only one vote on me and enough people are inactive that there's very little way a lynch is even possible!"

[Nightfall]

That way you can get used to the way I play, and you'll learn from your mistakes in the long run.

So it would be our mistake to go after someone who claims without being provoked? Or just you? Or just you when your town? What about when your scum? are you going to just come out and claim then too? That last one is assuming you aren't infact scum right now.

[Maz Medias]

I'm here, I'm just not very impressed with any of this. Basically, Sailor Jerry is combusting. This is bad. A claim would be okay, but not un-damning. I'm not ready to vote yet.

[TheEyeOfMordor]

BlueSin and Mini Neo haven't posted for a while so I will probably need to replace(yet again)...

[RangeroftheNorth]

Sailor Jerry, I will never condone playstyle as an excuse for bad play. If you play in a way that is detrimental to the town, doing it over and over again doesn't make it all right. Instead of us lynching you until we realize that it's your playstyle, we should continue lynching you until you change. If we allow you to use playstyle as an excuse when you are pro-town, (if you are pro-town in this game) than you will be able to use playstyle as an excuse when you are scum. Allowing scum to play in a way that damages the town because it's "their playstyle" hurts the town's chances of winning and damages the game as a whole. If you are not willing to change your playstyle to one that helps the town, it is in the town's best interest to continue lynching you in every game you play in. Getting rid of dead weight that is detrimental to the town on day one is almost as useful and a lot easier than getting rid of scum, and sometimes, you will be mafia. That just gives the town an added benefit.

Whether or not it's your playstyle is irrelevant. If you act in a way that favors the scum, you should be lynched. Claiming (or threatening to claim) on day one with one vote favors the scum.

Unvote
Vote: Sailor Jerry

Brizzy Boi is being passively scummy. Sailor Jerry is being actively scummy. He gets my vote. I still want to here from Brizzy Boi (and the other lurkers) but Sailor Jerry has become my first priority.

[Maz Medias]

I don't like when people advocate the "lynching bad townies is a good play" thing. Even bad townies are warm bodies in the endgame count.

[RangeroftheNorth]

Not if they are going to give the mafia information that helps them to win. I'm not sure that lynching a bad townie is the best play for winning an individual game, but it is definately a better metagame strategy than accepting that a player is allowed to help the mafia because it's his/her "playing style." I'm not completely sure that Sailor Jerry is mafia, but he's acting in a way that makes me think that he is, and I won't be too upset if when we lynch him, I find out that I'm wrong.

[Mert]

If he wants to claim then bandwagonning him now to the point that he will claim just means he wins. I agree that he's a bit keen to claim right this second and I agree that he's not giving off any real pro-town vibes at the moment, but if he

is

scum and his strategy involves an early claim then he'll probably want us to wagon him up to five votes or something.

For the moment I want him to explain

why

he feels it would be good to claim at this point. Jerry, that doesn't mean that I want you to claim, so please try and explain without hinting at anything.

[Sailor Jerry]

Because otherwise we all have to put up with this rubbish where you all invent reasons to vote me based upon what you think are scumtells (whether or not it's ever happened in the history of mafia).

It's already happening exactly as predicted, and it's counterproductive. Scum get the opportunity to stay in the background, and we get no info from the day.

I'm number 1, townie. Now you can either lynch me or go find scum. But at least you're in possession of the facts.

Rangerofthenorth, lynching me until I change my style of play seems counterproductive in the context of this game.

I suppose Day 1 lynches usually tend to be on people who cause a stir, when evidence is so thin on the ground and it's too challenging to find scum. But I'm happy with my vote on rangerofthenorth anyway.

[neongrey]

Problem is, Jerry, you haven't exactly been finding scum, yourself... you've got a glorified OMGUS vote in play, and keep insisting you're happy with it for no reason other than that he finds your suspicious actions suspicious.

Claiming to be town is one thing. ANyone can do it. However, the burden of proof lies on you, and you haven't even tried. You've insisted you won't, even.