Kingmaker II-Game Over

[Fritzler]

hmmm....can we kill crash text dummie now?

[Yosarian2]

Ok, some quick thoughts on the people on the king's list of exectuion.

Pablito: His constant defense/buddying up to Glork is a minor scum tell, and he hasn't done much else.

Bird111: all he's done is vote Gork and Pablito for no good reason. Clearly :not helpfull: at best.

Phobus: I really can't get a good read on him at the moment. His shameless bandwagoning dosn't look good, but I'm not sure if it's a scumtell at this point. More suspicious is his refusal to contribute in any real way, with helpful comments like "still nothing to add at this point".

CDB: Don't really see anything too suspicious about him at this point.

[Ameliaslay]

I'm sorry guys... esp. since I'm in other games w/ some of you and it's bad play across the board... Life is crazy at the moment.
I read posts from the time I last posted up until now, and since I have a little time, I'm trying to do a full re-read-- but I'll comment on what's caught my eye.

No, I won't reveal what I was thinking when I said I'll defend Glork to the bone. Ask me some other day.

No. Because it would bring more discussion and more fun if people can try to speculate why I'm doing it.

I was first bothered by the fact that he refuses to explain on either count, then by the fact that he switches stances almost immediately a post later, and explains his vote on Nightson.

This rubbed me the wrong way, tiger. If we have an impressionable Kingmaker, they'll likely heed your will. Hypothetically, scum can easily kill the one of those two that's town, leaving us with a scum king tomorrow.

Interesting connotation there…

I realize that, and there are people I wouldn't vote for needing a replacement. But given the tone of some of the discussions we have (especially the references/interest in Kingmaker 1), vikingfan asking for a replacement in this game is worth keeping an eye on.

Two different situations, interesting that you bring it up… Vikingfan’s request for a replacement came late in the game when he was clearly under pressure, how can you compare them?

Okay, first things first,

unvote:all

Upon reading through the game (which took forever), I've got three people to comment on specifically.

cardb0ardb0x is newbie town, classic townie who cracks under pressure, and his later posts haven't been scummy.

pablito: weird and scummy, seems to enjoy buddying up to people, getting general scum vibes from him

vote: pablito

phoebus: This should be obvious, joined the biggest bandwagons and has yet toactually contribute to the game

vote: phoebus

I can't get a read on either bird1111 or Mert as of yet.

Anyway, I unvoted because I don't really care what vikingfan's reasons for voting you were. My vote for you was for the reasons given in the post where I voted for you. I can't comment on what vikingfan did cause I'm not him.

Your voting reasons seem flimsy—you haven’t backed them up at all. And no you can’t comment from his perspective, but you’ve have to keep his actions in mind, just like we do when comparing yours to his…

vote:Nightson

That’s all for the moment… looking….

[Thok]

I realize that, and there are people I wouldn't vote for needing a replacement. But given the tone of some of the discussions we have (especially the references/interest in Kingmaker 1), vikingfan asking for a replacement in this game is worth keeping an eye on.

Two different situations, interesting that you bring it up… Vikingfan’s request for a replacement came late in the game when he was clearly under pressure, how can you compare them?

I'm not sure what exactly you are talking about. Or rather, I sort of think I know what you are talking about, but wonder why you would try to interpret my comments in that way, since that was clearly not what I meant at all, and I have a hard time believing that my statement could have been read that way.

Vote Ameliaslay

, since I think you're trying way to hard to attack Nightson in your last post. (I personally feel pablito is also trying too hard to attack Nightson, but well, I'm already voting him.) I can't decide if this is an attempt at busing scum or trying to create a bandwagon on an innocent.

[Ameliaslay]

I realize that, and there are people I wouldn't vote for needing a replacement. But given the tone of some of the discussions we have (especially the references/interest in Kingmaker 1), vikingfan asking for a replacement in this game is worth keeping an eye on.

Two different situations, interesting that you bring it up… Vikingfan’s request for a replacement came late in the game when he was clearly under pressure, how can you compare them?

I'm not sure what exactly you are talking about. Or rather, I sort of think I know what you are talking about, but wonder why you would try to interpret my comments in that way, since that was clearly not what I meant at all, and I have a hard time believing that my statement could have been read that way.

Vote Ameliaslay

, since I think you're trying way to hard to attack Nightson in your last post. (I personally feel pablito is also trying too hard to attack Nightson, but well, I'm already voting him.) I can't decide if this is an attempt at busing scum or trying to create a bandwagon on an innocent.

1.)I was just looking at the first part... and at your quote again and realized, when I made that comment I was thinking that he was replacing someone else and that you were making a generalization on replacements... I didn't totally think that one through, and I apologize.

2.) Trying way to hard to attack him? I placed a vote because I was expressing my suspicion, and when I clarify my thoughts on a few others, I'll be placing votes on them. Coming into a game, it doesn't seem like his analysis of the people that he commented on was very in depth... yet he was defending his reasons-- that's what caught my eye.

And while I'm thinking of it, though I have an idea why.... Since you're explaining your suspicions of nightson pablito, you might well detail the ones you hold for me.

[pablito]

Sure, I've since forgotten the reasons.

Unvote: Ameliaslay

I'm sure there was a stupid reason, but eh, I can't be bothered. Probably was gut. But I feel satisfied with your latest posts.

Oh and btw,

Unvote: MBL

I don't feel like keeping up with him. I'm not saying he's no longer scummy in my eyes, but it's clear I won't get much more out of him today and getting to ignore him for awhile will be better for me.

[Nightson]

Your voting reasons seem flimsy—you haven’t backed them up at all.

I’m going to assume you mean my vote on pablito because I can’t see how you’d call my stated reasons for phoebus flimsy.

Pablito is scummy when he tries to buddy up to people and he’s scummy when he makes posts like the one right above me. I find pretty much all of his posts to be off, they seem strange and not protown.

[pablito]

But they're obviously intentional. How could anyone be that strange and natural?

[Nightson]

But they're obviously intentional. How could anyone be that strange and natural?

Eh? Are you saying your purposely trying to act scummy?

[cardb0ardb0x]

On the

On Pablito: I don't get it. In my eyes there's equal chance that pablito's acting scummy so he won't get mafia'd at night or that he's just plain old scum. I don't see how we're supposed to tell day 1. However, the deliberate nature of his actions-

But they're obviously intentional. How could anyone be that strange and natural?

(did he mean unnatural?) suggests a level of planning. I'm guessing that especially creative tactics are usually employed by the mafia rather than the town.
On the other hand, his behavior may be allocated towards a desire to simply take a big gamble and assume that any one particular player is on the town's side/ally, right off the bat. All things considored, the probability that one will end up randomly choosing another townie is very good. That may have been pab's original thinking, although it looks less and less like this is the case as time goes on...

On bird1111: There really isn't much to say, seeing as how he hasn't posted much at all (7 posts total, only 1 since september15th). The case against bird1111 is some fishy vote movements very early on. Looking at them, it's very possible that they were just regular day 1 votes that were just twiddled with too much.

On channeldelibird: Has justification for all actions, although that obviously doesn't automatically make him town.

On phoebus: I had forgotten how unproductive his posts were. He's never had anything to add, and never had any inhibitions about proclaiming how little he had to add or how little he had read, kind of intentionally dragging his heels. Doesn't automatically make mafia, however.

In summary, after looking over what I just wrote,

unvote: bird1111

and

vote: pablito

looks reasonable. I had previously voted for pablito, and unvoted... now it seems a little more justified to do so.

[spectrumvoid]

unvote box

Sorry for leaving it for so long, I just forgot I was voting him.

My vote on Phoebus stays, for exactly the same reasons as before.

I can't get a read on bird and CDB, because bird has just not been contributing much, but so have other people in this game.

vote: pablito

I read him as someone who made a mistake, and now is trying to pass it off as a deliberate attempt. It seems insincere to me.

[Twomz]

@ Fritz... when we lynched CTD in PRIII a day ago or so be blew up and took 4 others w/ him one of which was me . (even though there's no way for that to happen in this game... i'm still wary of lynching him ).

[Mert]

But they're obviously intentional. How could anyone be that strange and natural?

So the obvious question is why are you acting strange intentionally?

[pablito]

To see fools like you try so hard to justify a vote on me because you know that it's the easiest and most convenient path. In other words, I'm seeking opportunistic scum.

I should stop it though, in light of the retractable deadline.

You gotta think though, why would I become even more suspicious at this time in the day? especially after people began to stop suspecting me?

[Mert]

Well I'm not voting for you so I assume that's a general point?

[pablito]

Yeah, but you're still a fool. So point still holds.

[spectrumvoid]

Twomz: I don't get what your point is... Are you saying you don't want to lynch CTD just because in another game he was like kamikaze or something? How does that affect this game?

[Mastermind of Sin]

Apparently. That's dumb.

[cardb0ardb0x]

No, I won't reveal what I was thinking when I said I'll defend Glork to the bone. Ask me some other day.

No. Because it would bring more discussion and more fun if people can try to speculate why I'm doing it.

Is it possible, so early in the game, that pablito was erroneously trying to imply that he and glork were masons, even though there are clearly no masons in this game...? I'm just trying to make sense of what he's doing.

[pablito]

cbox, your answer. And it was all contained in my first controversial post, I'll just reinterpret it for you so that it makes more sense.

I will defend Glork today to the bone. He'll have some awesome moves (whether anti-town or pro-town) within time and even if he's scum, I will not vote him/suggest his execution because he'll have such an uphill battle to fight. He's going to try to live up to last Kingmaker so he's got a tough image to beat. Either he's going to have to look like a supremely pro-town townie or a supremely pro-town assassin. He's already so visible (ditto with petroleumjelly) that it'll be easier to sniff out pro-town and anti-town vibes from them later. I'd rather focus on sniffing out the less visible players this time even if it means everyone is going to vote and suspect me.

There ya go. Feel free to vote me now Smile

So wait. My first post about my defense on Glork never mentioned that I knew Glork's alignment, only that I was putting a burden of supremely pro-town play on him. So where's this coming from cbox?

Furthermore, I explicitly say here that I will focus on sniffing out less visible players even if it means everyone is going to vote and suspect me. And what have I done? I've defended and restrained myself from going after cbox, I've acknowledged that Phoebus has a good reason for his votes, and when I voted someone, it was often the

first vote

and first argument against that person. So no one should say that I've done anything inconsistent. If you say I appear scummy, read that above post again and say that the above post is scummy in itself, not that my subsequent actions have been necessarily scummy.

I already alerted everyone to my plan - defend highly visible players and I picked out Glork and a small mention of PJ as those that I would defend. This was before others popped up. I also gave rationale as to why I will appear to defend these people - because we should focus on others who are sliding by (thusly not as visible). Also note again that I do not admit to knowing their alignment through exterior means, and that I also don't admit that I'm even defending someone because they're not scummy, but only because I did not want to focus on visible people today.

Why is this productive? Because in a game where wagons help but aren't necessarily culminating inevitably toward a lynch - it is of the utmost importance to seek out everyone as equally as possible to give the king a more informed decision. Why waste so much time help pile on Phoebus or cardb0ardb0x when I can point out little things from CDB Mert and Ubertimmy? If I were a non-productive townie, I could as easily focus and expand on previous arguments so that we end up near deadline with very few suspects who we've analyzed ad nauseum. Instead, we at least have

some

number of suspects to go off of. This might not be something that everyone thinks is truly productive, and it might have actually been counter-productive, but I think there have been some interesting reactions that might give us more informed decisions in later days. Very few people have done some good questioning, so I think that the lack of suspects is due to the apathy of the town most of all.

Also, would someone who is seeking out not-so-visible suspects try to act not-so-visible. Yeah, possibly, but didn't I mention that I probably would be voted during the day?

I think aside from Ameliaslay and MBL votes, I lead a charge against someone who wasn't as visible before. Also subsequently, I unvoted those people at the same time when I knew that these votes couldn't hold any water (which is admittedly not good play).

cbox, I want to suspect you, but you just confuse me instead (masons?). Your suspicions seem justified and if you're pro-town please continue doing this - I wouldn't even mind if you keep on doing it with me - but at least suspect and follow-up with questions just like you are doing.

[ubertimmy]

My suspiscions haven't changed much. Not a big Cardboard box fan tho.

Vote: Cardboardbox

[pablito]

glork nightson pj pablito ctd cdb fritz yos amelia thok cbox spectrum twomz mert mos ubertimmy

Well, deadline in about two days and we still haven't heard from bird1111, Dead Rikimaru, Machiavellian-Mafia, MrBuddyLee, Phoebus, PookyTheMagicalBear, Rosso Carne, and Vaughn since the deadline was set on Monday. 8/24 haven't said anything since the LoE went up then. And we expect to be playing the game well when two of those on the LoE haven't even said anything in their defense? I just hope that some day results and night results will get the town acting in Day 2 because Day 1 has been fairly useless.

I hope that activity strongly picks up this weekend so that we get the deadline retracted, but we all know how weekends are.

[pablito]

Mistake, three days until deadline. But still, sentiment is the same. Three days is too little time to make an informed decision unless we all chip in.

[MrBuddyLee]

unvote everyone, vote: Channel Delibird

I don't get an ounce of scumminess from bird/Phoebus's posts yet, just laziness and weirdness. I don't groove on some of the suspicions CDB expresses, and I'll go into detail on those in another post soon. I also want to evaluate pabs because he's said some weird shit.

I think even though we've got a LOE we should still all keep commenting on people off the list. I'll do a full reread and post tonight if possible.

[spectrumvoid]

I don't like the way box specially picked out that comment of pablito's to accuse pablito of implying he's a mason. There have been many (way too many) other totally weird comments that some people have said in this game that I can't make sense of.

I am more-or-less satisfied with pablito's latest post explaining his actions. And so

unvote: pablito

MBL: I don't get why you're saying that people who are lazy and weird cannot be scum.