Mini 370: Reverse Mafia - Game Over!

[Zindaras]

Bah. Nobody trusts me.

Zindaras, any reason you want to be revived so bad?

1) I'm fairly convinced one of our revivals is scum.

2) I'm not getting town vibes from

anyone

.

3) I know I'm town.

[Yosarian2]

1) I'm fairly convinced one of our revivals is scum.

And what are you basing this conviction on?

[Zindaras]

1) I'm fairly convinced one of our revivals is scum.

And what are you basing this conviction on?

The fact that people seemed a tiny bit too eager to revive you. Tamuz hardly posted the first few pages.

[Yosarian2]

1) I'm fairly convinced one of our revivals is scum.

And what are you basing this conviction on?

The fact that people seemed a tiny bit too eager to revive you. Tamuz hardly posted the first few pages.

Yeah; once it looked like I was going to be revived, several people quickly jumped on my bandwagon. Like I said early in the game, if it looks like a good guy is going to be revived, I wouldn't be surprised to see scum quickly jump on the wagon, both in order to look more pro-town and to buddy up with someone who's going to have one of three votes on day 1.

That's why there are some people on my suspicious list even though they voted for me day 1, like Crash.

[chaotic_diablo]

Hi Zindaras

C_D- What I find interesting is the way you seem to be playing down your connection to Thoth. This is in contrast to the way Yos straight-up admitted that he looked more favorably on Al_Ko because they agreed with each other. Why would you want to play down your connection to Thoth? I wonder...

Some of your remarks are bordering on flamebaiting again, which is odd because I thought I was being polite-ish when I addressed you.

Anyway, the main arguement against Crashy is the Dummie/Mr.Cesar interaction. So what do you make of that?

I downplayed your exaggeration, not the connection. Obviously you tried to make it seem important when I called you out on it. In fact, I find it it interesting that you find the need to exaggerate in order to prevent my revival. If my actions are scummy enough, then why need to make it bigger?

Not really. I'm just being rude in a polite way. Your response was borderline provocative, especially when you try to twist my post into suggesting that you were the best candidate on my list when you're not.

Calling people names is poor sportsmanship.
Mr.C made people argue his revival while not doing anything himself. CTD in the wrong state of mind and tried to help him. I wouldn't want to revive any of them. Interaction is there, but not strong enough to suggest that they may be partners. There needs to be a two-sided connection, not one.

Probably voted Thoth because he endorsed me and had support from Al_ko. Other than that, nothing else.

Good replacement. Better than Mr.C. Let's see if CTD tries to revive Zindaras.

[Tamuz]

Sorry, I've been paying like 0 attention to any games lately but WoT. I've checked Theme in apprehension, then seeing it not open I close my browser.

Things I note:
M4yhem's sucking up to CTD
Support, despite being a popular candidate is not meaningless. Support is still support, even if majorial.
M4yhem seems to be getting desperate, perhaps to try and get in, or to give a scummate a springboard
Zindaras will bring more sanity to Mr. C's role
I'm still undecidede on what to do with power roles
I hardly posted in the first few pages because I didn't get to the game till then


My list is the same as yesterday, not much movement either due to same stances, or because of lack of posting.

[al_kohaulec]

CrashTextDummie: logic deficiency, revive Mr.C? no way
yellowbounder: lack of post
Thoth: lack of posts
M4yhem: egotistic, "I'm the only good candidate for revival!"
al_kohaulec: indecisive, 5-10 pages of stuff that all ended with "screw this"
Twito: lack of posts
themanhimself: questionable claim
chaotic_diablo: jerk, screw you
lordy: not enough contribution
Mr. César: don't ask

You don't sound very happy, but most of this is pretty much the hard truth.

I'd recommend to the town choosing someone who neither Yos or I support (Mainly Yos from my perspective, but I sympathize with the town, so someone I don't support as well) so that there is a smaller chance of us losing so quickly.

Of course, I understand opposal to this reccomendation.

I'll come back and reread Pg 10 because I haven't read closely or addressed anything from this page forth.

I don't think we should go for somebody neither of you two support, a common scum tactic is to distance yourself from your allies, and if you're town, the reason you may be looking away from players you don't support is probably because you're picking up on scumtells from them.




And I'm really looking forward to more insight from Zindaras to see how I think of him now.

[chaotic_diablo]

I don't think we should go for somebody neither of you two support, a common scum tactic is to distance yourself from your allies, and if you're town, the reason you may be looking away from players you don't support is probably because you're picking up on scumtells from them.

Another reason they may be looking away is because the unsupported think differently. That's the whole point on picking someone who they don't support; we don't really want all jack***es or all smart***es judging. We need to have a mix between the two for balance. People with like minds we have a hard time thinking up of changes.

Still, good point. It would take a decently clever scum to pull it off, even if it is a common tactic. In this game, it would take more effort to make it happen. Unfortunately, both candidates who were revived fit that category.

We should either go with it or not, otherwise we'll have another 5-10 pages of [insert preferred negative pronoun].

[Zindaras]

[quote="Yosarian2"Yeah; once it looked like I was going to be revived, several people quickly jumped on my bandwagon. Like I said early in the game, if it looks like a good guy is going to be revived, I wouldn't be surprised to see scum quickly jump on the wagon, both in order to look more pro-town and to buddy up with someone who's going to have one of three votes on day 1.

That's why there are some people on my suspicious list even though they voted for me day 1, like Crash.[/quote]

Day One (or however we call this) is a

vital

day for the scum.

Why?

Now, for this I assume that the Cop can investigate players in limbo.

If we revive two townies and the Cop, it's over. We can just No Revive and revive confirmed townies until the game's over.

If I were scum, I'd be pretty panicky Day One.

[ChannelDelibird]

Clarification:

No Revive is not a valid vote.

[M4yhem]

Yos- Maybe I’m very stupid as scum, but I would suggest almost anything if I thought it’d make me look protown. Any plan can be broken if you’re smart. Also, what if one of the scum has a role that might mess up the plan, like an investigation-immune godfather, or a scum cop or scum doc? Or if they agreed pre-game to claim something?

It’s pretty much up to the cop if they want to claim. I would vote for the cop, but I don’t trust myself to separate fake cop hints from the real thing.

Zindaras- I know how you feel, but that’s not enough to get me to vote for you.

How about you answer a couple of questions?
Who do you trust the most at the moment? (apart from yourself)
Who do you trust the least at the moment? (apart from yourself, you crazy emo kid)
Who would you fight to revive tomorrow?
Who would you fight against reviving tomorrow?
What makes you the best candidate for revival?
Please give reasons for all your answers. Thanx. <3

C_D- I think the problem is my humor doesn’t translate well on the internets. Thus, you think I’m insulting you when I’m not. Maybe it’s because you’re American? (note, this is also a joke. Yes, my jokes suck. Doesn’t stop me trying.)

Tamuz- Meh. It’s no secret that I want to be revived. I like to lead the game, not sit on the sidelines. Plus, I don’t trust any of you. Even the mod. I mean, for all I know this is some weird experimental setup, where I’m the only townie and the rest of you have to act like I have a chance of winning. Damn you, Delibird!

I agree that Zindaras seems sane so far.

Where am I sucking up to Crashy? I thought I’d been questioning him as intensely as the rest of you. I am kind of fond of him though; we played in another game where he totally owned my newbie ass, and so I regard him with a kind of terrified awe.

I say, let the powerroles chose for themselves! Who’s with me? Yeah!

I like the way C_D has referred to himself as ‘jerk, screw you.’ <3

Thank mod there’s no such thing as no revive here. No lynch is seriously lame. Surely we have enough brain in our heads combined to think of something?

I support Tamuz’s pick someone unrelated to the two revived guys plan. I think Al_Kohaulec is being slippery. IMO, distancing is less likely than support in a setup like this.

[CrashTextDummie]

Cool, Mr. C has become useful. I'd like to hear more from Zindaras (a list of suspicion would be useful), but he's still at the top of my revival list. I'd probably support a C_D wagon as well.

[Zindaras]

I've seen the questions and will respond when I find time to do a full re-read.

Clarification:

No Revive is not a valid vote.

Okay.

This is quite irrelevant though. Limbo-cop only has to investigate an innocent guy during two nights to win.

If there is one.

Would like to hear opinions on that particular plan, for which we must assume we've revived two townies.

[Yosarian2]

I've seen the questions and will respond when I find time to do a full re-read.

Clarification:

No Revive is not a valid vote.

Okay.

This is quite irrelevant though. Limbo-cop only has to investigate an innocent guy during two nights to win.

If there is one.

Would like to hear opinions on that particular plan, for which we must assume we've revived two townies.

It's basically the same plan as Al's from yesterday; we revive a limbo-cop and then revive a doc to keep the limbo cop safe, while the cop investigates. That way even if there is a scum alive, the cop gets at least two investigations, and if there's not we almost certanly win.

And it has the same problems; it only works if there is a limbo cop and only one limbo cop, and if he has no sanity problems, and also could be disrupted by a godfather-ish role or something like that. Nonetheless, it could be worth trying, and if there is a limbo cop, I wouldn't be opposed to him claiming and us reviving him today. It's up to him, though.

[M4yhem]

Ok Zindaras. Waiting to hear from you.

I like the plan, as long as we remember that cops are not infallible, and godfather roles are not uncommon. Which we will.

Can I request to be checked first, or will you smite me for directing the cop? I want to liiiiiiive!

And let's do a poll:
Who trusts Yos?
Who doesn't trust Yos?
Who trusts Tamuz?
Who doesn't trust Tamuz?

My personal feelings on this shift every five minutes or so. Currently I lean towards trusting Yosarian (ZOMG!!1111) because he seems fairly reasonable and responds well to questioning. As a result, I start to think Tamuz is dodgy, for thinking that Yos is dodgy but never really explaining why.

[ChannelDelibird]

Prodding Thoth, yellowbounder and lordy.

[Thoth]

Sorry, still there, but was away during the weekend. I'll post tomorrow when I've read up.

[M4yhem]

Hmm...Silence.

Another question for the town in general (if you're scum, don't answer this):

If the cop doesn't decide to claim, how are we going to decide who to revive? What are you looking for?

[lordy]

Im looking for his contributions, and how he appeals to get revival. Thats why I dislike Mr.C so much, Im hoping for a much better performance by Zinderas. Could you please kindly explain why you, of all people, should be revived when there are so many townies around?

Im neutral to both tamuz and yos at the momment, but I dislike Yoz's plan, mainly because we're screwed if theres none of these roles and the scum just takes the opportunity to impose as either of the roles.

[chaotic_diablo]

I trust tamuz slightly more than Yos, but I'm also at a neutral level in terms of 'trusting,' as in I don't overly distrust any of them.

m4yhem, my American rationality says your jokes suck.

If the cop doesn't claim, then we either go with Tamuz's or Yos's plan. I favor Tamuz's plan since lordy already said the stuff about Yos's plan.

[Zindaras]

I finally got around to rereading the entire game. My opinions are forming themselves. I'll post an analysis later.

[Yosarian2]

Heh...it's not really "my" plan, guys; it's Al's plan. But yeah; it's starting to look like the cop probably isn't going to claim, as we've been talking about this plan for 2 days now, so perhaps there isn't a cop, or perhaps he knows something we don't.

I guess I may as well go with my #1 choice at the moment, and

vote:al_kohaulec

[M4yhem]

Could you please kindly explain why you, of all people, should be revived when there are so many townies around?

Nothing would please me more.
I believe myself to be a good choice for revival because I’m not as obviously affiliated with Yos or Tamuz as some other people, I put forward my own ideas, I listen to and comment on other people’s ideas, I’ve shown a capacity to admit when I’m wrong, I’m one of the posters most eager to look for scum, I’ve done my best to be totally honest with you all, and I post fairly often so I’ll never keep you waiting.

C_D- My mixed heritage mind is happy to accept that.

Lordy, C_D- Thank you for your quick answers to the Tamuz/Yos question. Although saying you are neutral to them doesn’t really help us decide as a town whether we trust them, it’s better than no answer at all.

Lordy has a point. I hadn’t even thought that we might not have a cop at all. That seems so mean...

Zindaras- Don’t make me wait forever.

[Zindaras]

Okay, I lost my notes of the first few pages, but I know what I thought about them, looking back at my earlier post. Now, there are some things I'd like to respond to:

Well, if we're going to figure out who are scum and who are good guys, we're going to have to start leaving a voting record. I've still got a bit of a pro-town feeling about CD, like I said yesterday, and as that's the strongest hunch I've got at the moment I might as well back that up with a

vote:chaotic diablo

.

This is the first post that caught my eye. I do not like chaotic_diablo. (reasons for that later)

On another note, we still haven't heard from lordy and Mr. Cesar at all, and we've only heard from yellow once. I would suggest that we not revive anyone today untill all three either start posting or get replaced. After all, if we don't get a voting record on certain people before day 1, and they stay in limbo, we won't get a voting record from them after day 1 either.

Yos follows a scummy paragraph up with a paragraph that I like.

I'm willing to consider Thoth though.

Uh-huh. Saying he's okay with Thoth, but not really stating any reasons.

Right now:
-I think yos revival was good one. We need to get clear, sensible townies into the living world
-I'd

vote:al_kohaulec

-I'd stay off mayhem as he seems rather scummy, looking overeager to impress yet his ideas would fail.

I don't like this post.

-It assumes Yos is Town. Yos may be clear and sensible, but that doesn't mean he's town.
-Voting alko without giving too much reasoning.

It may be the psychological effect of c_d looking beneficially towards him, but I think he would make a good counter-point to Yos and is likely as not scum if Yos is so he is who I'd consider a safe placement in order to get diversity alive.

Huh? c_d voted Yos earlier in the game.

I think as it stands right now, Thoth is my favorite choice for revival.

Vote: Thoth

I do not like this vote at all.

At the moment, Thoth is on top with Tamuz second. No one else is on the list yet, but I'll add more.

vote Thoth

More Thoth voting.

That said, here are the people I will NOT support at this time:
Tamuz (he's too overeager for my liking)
themanhimself (for getting cold feet)
al_kohaulec (for reasons I'd like to keep to myself at the moment)

Everyone else I could be convinced to vote.

I wanted to restate this post because of his alko point.

I've thought about some of those too, but it simply doesn't help us to speculate that much because at that point it gets to where just about anything could happen and it really won't end up helping us.

For example, in day one of the last game I was in, one player claimed "I require two votes more than the majority to be lynched, and when I reach the normal majority to be lynched, I gain some ability, I don't know what it is though." Everybody speculated on so many different possibilities, including "He's going to be lynched and revived later in the game with a uber ability that will PWN US ALL!" This really got us nowhere, it turns out he was simply a jester. It's just an example of how when nearly anything is possible, looking at everything that's possible doesn't get us any further, and acting upon very unlikely possibilities is worse. Some people wanted to lynch him because he was scum, others to give his ability, and some were afraid to vote him at all for reasons that he could be scum who'd come back to life with insane abilities. The latter is horrible logic because if he's scum, he needs to die nonetheless, and a future revival with insane powers is unlikely, and you can't just let people live based on such unlikely events.

(Now I"m rambling, so I'll stop. That same game ended up having no mafia, 2 cults (one leader didn't know he was recruiting), 2 SKs, 1 backup SK, 1 triggered SK, 2 self-aligned players, a town aligned who lost if he died, over half a dozen useless docs and other useless roles, and a townie who had a trigger that changed what a player's alignment would show up as on death. Ya, it was a fun game.)

Thanks.

You guys are all sissys. Let's bandwagon chaotic_diablo and Mr. C and get this day over with.

This post set off an alarm. Not liking c_d, as stated before. Throwing in a player who was very unlikely to be revived to not make it seem he was supporting c_d only would be a good idea.

CDT, remember this about Mr. C. He could be hinting at being a power role. Now let's assume he is one. We revive him, but he doesn't claim, we don't know for sure. He's revived, but we probably won't have a doc. Night hits. Mafia kills Mr. C. BIG power role dead. So even if Mr. C. is protown, how do we benefit from his revival on the off chance that we do happen to also revive scum?

This has got to be the most ridiculous reason not to revive someone ever. What's your plan, champ? Leave all the power roles in the safety of limbo untill they don't matter anymore? We don't know what role, if any, Mr. C has. According to his word, he HAS to be revived. Why, we don't know. The mafia doesn't know either, so they don't know if he is worth a hit. Therefore, he's a pretty perfect revival candidate, if you ask me. There are only two reasons I hear to justify not reviving him, and they're both flawed

I was going to quote alko's post at first, but CTD already provided the counter-argument.

Now, for a player-by-player analysis:

CrashTextDummie-Undecided upon. He rebutted alko's points and was willing to revive Mr. C, but he was also pushing for c_d to be revived. I could be convinced to revive him.
yellowbounder-In a usual game, I'd say he was lurking scum, but that's not something to say here. I'm reserving judgement on him and am not willing to revive him.
Thoth-I don't like him at all. I can't remember his points (and he didn't make a lot), which is always bad, yet a lot of players seemed to be willing to revive him. I don't want to revive him at all.
M4yhem-Though his posts in the first few pages gave off scumvibes, I've been getting a better feeling from him since then. I think he's town and could be convinced to vote him.
al_kohaulec: Doesn't feel right. Agrees with a lot of people. Voted Thoth. Don't want to revive him.
Twito-Did he even post? Lurking, not paying attention, whatever. I can't get a reading on him, and I do not want to revive him.
themanhimself-Claimed RB. Hasn't really contributed since then. Don't want to revive him either, though his claim has me leaning to Town.
chaotic_diablo-I definitely do not like c_d. He seemed to try to wurm himself into a good spot with Yos. Voted Thoth later. Do not want to revive him.
lordy-Not a lot to get a read on. Leaning to Town at the moment, but I want to see more from him before I make any final judgement, so I'm not willing to revive him.

Yosarian2-The wagon on him was quick. He's either scum, or scum wanted to get on his good side. He's a good player and his posts make sense. However, I'm not totally convinced of his innocence, mainly because he seemed to like c_d (if my memory serves me well, which it may or may not).
Tamuz-Tamuz...I honestly can't see how he got revived. He doesn't seem to make too many great points. Also supported c_d at a moment.

There are two main people I could see myself voting: M4yhem and myself. I prefer myself over M4yhem for one really important reason:

Tamuz nor Yos liked Mr. C.

Neither wanted to see him alive. Basically, if I'm revived, we have three people alive without any real blocks (if a two-player "alliance" could be called a block).

[Zindaras]

Mod

:

I'd like a vote count, please, and I'd like to know what happens if no votes are cast at all during a day.