Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Legacy (Game Over)

[mastin2]

Nero, thoughts on the Zab wagon not going through?

I shared my thoughts with Nero on this last night.

Basically, I feel as if it would have gone through had zabriel actually been town.

Nero and I basically narrowed the suspect pool down to seven players:

3. zabriel
5. Kise
11. MagnaofIllusion
12. Yates
14. AngryPidgeon
16. jasonT1981
19. Kublai Khan

Since there are 4-5 scum left in the game, our goal was to eliminate two names from here. And that's where we begin to diverge in our reads.
He's suspicious of zab but paranoid thanks to MoI, he's got MoI, Kise, and AP as top picks (AP being my bottom pick and MoI/Kise still needing review), and jason/Yates are his version of MoI/Kise (under review), with the same null-leaning-town read that I have on MoI/Kise.

Soyeah. We're on the right track, but we're a little divided as to where to go from here.

One of the first things I'll be doing is an iso of Zoro, since he asked me to base my MoI read off of that, rather than MoI's posts. (And quite frankly, that's not too unreasonable a request, all things considered.)
And also, reviewing VCA; I compiled every votecount in my personal quicktopic for reference even when I'm away from the site.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Basically, I feel as if it would have gone through had zabriel actually been town.

So you don't think Zab is Town ... and you are voting KK.

Yeah, putting you on ignore / lynch once we've gone through Zab / Myk / Nero for as long as I'm alive.

FOUR MORE ZABRIEL VOTES ASAP

[mykonian]

I'm getting the idea that you are bussing zab here and making the connection for me to get direct profit. And I really don't like it.

Well funny that you think Zab is scum two different ways (via being scum yesterday and relationally today) but aren't trying to hang him.

If you thought this and really believed all the "MoI is doing nothing to influence anyone" crap you were pedaling yesterday you would be voting to lynch scum Zab and preparing to try to hang me tomorrow.

But you aren't. Instead you are throwing this distancing crap down in hopes once Zab hangs as obv-scum you can cling to mastin's skirt and be saved from the rope that you so desperately deserve.

/inb4re "I'll vote MoI first then" from obv-partner Mykonian.

I'll vote MoI first then

vote MoI

Happy to oblige.

Every player in the game needs to post one of these three possibilities in their next post:

"If I was the messenger, I did not target Aco"
"If I was the messenger, I targeted Aco; nothing unusual seems to have happened"
"If I was the messenger, I targeted Aco; something unusual happened"

Needless to say, Nero and I were incredibly busy last night. There were 11 messages going into night. Now there's almost 60.

VOTE: Kublai Khan Man.

this is just a bad idea mastin. I suggest you move your vote.

If I were the messenger, I did not target Aco

[Kublai Khan]

So the vote on me is pressure due to PoE? <- The emoticon fails to truly capture how hard my eyes are rolling.

You forgot to answer my question. Why is Nero Cain a townread? How does his claim make sense?

Vote: zabriel

[mastin2]

Mastin needs to explain why his vote wasn't moved to Zab before he went V/LA.

I almost did.

I literally almost,

almost

did. It was right there. I was on the edge of it, I had it in my mind, I was weighing it constantly in my mind.

...But ultimately, I chose not to, for three reasons.
-The Yates wagon when I left was only one vote behind the zabriel wagon. With me still on it, there was a chance of it going through, whereas had I jumped ship it would have been condemned to fail for sure. I didn't want to kill it.
-I wanted to vote with AP. AP was on Yates, and had a pretty strong townread on zabriel. I had JUST gotten to thinking him town, so I wanted to work with him.
-I figured that my vote wasn't needed for the zabriel lynch, and that enough people would be around on deadline for it to be pushed through. After all, plenty of people seemed to want zabriel dead, and plenty more would be willing to lynch zab even if they had a townread on him to avoid the no-lynch.

You're quite correct, it was a mistake not to have switched, and when I learned on Monday that there was a no-lynch rather than a lynch, and that the lynch failed by one vote, I was instantly guilt-ridden. That failure was my one missing vote. But I had no way of seeing the future, of knowing my vote would have been needed.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Nope.jpg

Deadline was in hours. Yates wasn't getting lynched.

So you are either Fail or Scum.

Vote Zabriel and go sit in the corner while the adults get stuff done.

THREE MORE ZAB VOTES AND WE LYNCH ANOTHER SCUM

[mastin2]

@Acosmist / AngryP / pidgey / Peregrine / Mastin / KK / jasonT - VOTE ZAB FOR GREAT JUSTICE AND SEXY MAFIA HANGINGS

Eventually.

Tempting as it may be, I have no intention of a quicklynch today. My vote will most likely be going there, but there's no reason for it to be there right now. Zabriel's under plenty enough pressure. I intend to apply pressure elsewhere in the mean time.

[Kublai Khan]

Why is mastin2 ignoring me?

[MagnaofIllusion]

I'll vote MoI first then

vote MoI

Happy to oblige.

Of course you will. You are obvious scum. Have been since I replaced in.

Too bad people listened to Mastin's drivel and didn't follow my lead in lynching you.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Eventually.

Tempting as it may be, I have no intention of a quicklynch today. My vote will most likely be going there, but there's no reason for it to be there right now. Zabriel's under plenty enough pressure. I intend to apply pressure elsewhere in the mean time.

Nope. Nothing to be gained from elongating the day. Town

WILL NOT

have any more information roles and the Doc is dead. Yesterday's fail of a lynch on Zab provides us with all the relational and vote-count analysis material we need with his Mafia flip.

Your intentions to apply 'pressure' elsewhere don't matter to me one iota. Your fail play caused scum to escape lynch yesterday and I'm not about to let you derail it again with your stupidity / scum play.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Zabriel needs 3 more votes until he takes his rightful position in the noose!

@Acosmist / AngryP / pidgey / Peregrine / jasonT - VOTE ZAB FOR GREAT JUSTICE AND SEXY MAFIA HANGINGS

[zabriel]

I can see where this is leading. Fine, we'll do this. Go ahead and pile on, I'll claim, and we'll argue about it for three pages.

[MagnaofIllusion]

If you had a claim that would save you it would have happened yesterday.

Dingle dangle scumbag.

[Kise]

If I was the messenger, I targeted Aco; something unusual happened

I told the mod of my situation... for the rest of you, my internet service is scheduled to be discontinued sometime this week. I will disappear until close to New Years unless I feel like moving back and forth to my sister's place to pop online.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Well you are already voting obv-scum Zabriel so it's good.

While you are hear encourage the other Town to help get this done so some of your disconnect time can be spent in Night

[mastin2]

@mastin2 - Explain your Nero Cain townread.

BUNDLES-loads of neighborhood talk.

You just can't fake that kind of town-talk. He and I got on at the same time, and basically had a back-and-forth real-time conversation. He even asked the mod if he could have extra time to talk to compensate for his time being v/la. You don't ask that kind of question as scum.


His logic is decent, his reasoning is good. His suspects are solid, and his posts are genuine. His tone is natural and synchronized to my posts pretty well. We worked as a team last night, and did so fairly well. (Like I said. The quicktopic now has 83% more content in there from a single night than from all other nights before.) If you want non-neighborhood reasoning, then apply this to his posts.

I said it before, and I'll say it again. His posts read as genuinely frustrated, that he's trying to communicate his suspicions and his logic and his reasons, but he's failing and doesn't understand why. Nero as a scumhunter has always had this problem--he's felt as if his reads are on the right track, but lacks the charisma, the persuasive power, to make others believe him. And this is exactly what I've been seeing from him. His thought process connects perfectly as town for me. I see where he's coming from, I see what he's trying to say, both defensively and offensively, and I get what he's been trying to do.

All from the town perspective. And that's just not something I can see him faking as scum.
Beyond that, I know for a fact that the neighborhood works exactly as he describes it. It is instant, and we only have night-talk. Yes, this is something that you have to take my word for, but unless you think we're both scum, then you know that at least one of us is town and telling the truth.

I even see his thought process for who he chooses to neighborize. If you knew Nero's history with Benmage, you'd understand exactly why Nero wouldn't neighborize Benmage, despite what Benmage's role is. And if you paid attention to Nero's read on Aco, you'd know why Nero wouldn't want Aco in the neighborhood. His targets make perfect sense to me.

He's as town as any player can be. Of all the players, he's a good 98.98% town. I can't get any more sure of a read than that without role info.

[Kise]

@Acosmist / AngryP / pidgey / Peregrine / jasonT - VOTE ZAB FOR GREAT JUSTICE AND SEXY MAFIA HANGINGS

[MagnaofIllusion]

Kise gets it!

^5

[Kublai Khan]

His thought process connects perfectly as town for me.

What did you think of Post 3190 (and his partial answers at Post 3252).

Don't take this personally mastin2, but I think you can be one-on-one fooled by scum.

Town instantaneous neighborizer in a game with a Mafia Roleblocker DOES NOT MAKE SENSE.

[AngryPidgeon]

The Zab wagon was a bullshit counter wagon to you?

You know how I know you are scum? You are acting like your wagon was really bad

Uh no. The Yates wagon was a counter to Zab. There wasn't even a Yates wagon until later.

Also, I'm acting like my wagon was bad because my wagon was bad. Also also - coasting /= scum. I realize I haven't been super active on these forums - PERIOD - but that's due to RL stuff not game stuff. Unless you think I'm scum in all three games? Also, feel free to show me a single game where I was lurker scum, tyia.

You, on the other hand, have been doing nothing but manufacturing counter wagons and casting suspicion without cause. Plus your stance on the Tammy thing was bogus but I'm not going to get in to that again.

When I have some time I'm going to revisit if you or Zab are the better lynch for today.

Lol, in that case PV and I were also counterwagons to the Zab wagon.

No, your wagon was not bad. You posted basically zero content Yesterday and parked your vote on JasonT1981 when that clearly wasn't going anywhere. Coasting may not equal scum, but it is a symptom. Combine that with voteparking on a shit wagon and not vocalizing support for testing obvscum Acosmist and the diagnosis is pretty clear. You have the scum. And look at that strawman. I never said you were scum for lurking. Your vote-park on Jason and refusal to participate WAS scummy and you got votes for it. I said that if you were town, you would understand why people were willing to vote you.

But instead we get this "My wagon is shit, Zab is obv scum and I was the CW!" First off, if Zab is scum then there were several CWs and you are just trying to imply you are town by riding the "Zab NL means hes scum" wave which is just subtle buddying to MoI/mastin/whoever. Second off, your votepark on Jason (a wagon going NOWHERE) suggests that you thought Zab was town. What changed to make you think otherwise? Its not like Zab changed his playstyle at all.


Re Messenger: I already claimed that the messenger targeted me last night..

@MoI: Read on Yates?

P-edit (so many pedits): I think Zab should claim next post. Its obvious thats where today is headed.

People I want to lynch atm in rough order from "Oh god yes!" to "Ok": Yates, Kublai Khan, Mykonian, Nero Cain.

KK, read on Yates?

[jasonT1981]

Was just coming on to do just that

vote:Zab

Should have happened yesterday, needs to happen today

[mastin2]

Also, there IS information to be gained by not ending the day so soon.

"What info would that be?"

Among others, stronger stances on Jason, on Yates, on Kise, and on MoI, along with Khan for good measure. (And for Nero's sake, AP as well.)

What do I hope to accomplish by not speedwagoning?
-VCA. I have it in my QT. I want the chance to analyze it and post trends from it.
-Followthrough. VCA shows potential trends worth investigating, but investigating the trends tends to work better if the topic's actually open.
-Pressure. Zabriel's one scum, sure. Let's go with that. But there's more than one scum in the game, and I intend to weave them out.
-Re-readthrough. I am one of the only players on the site who is actually insane enough to try, but if you guys DON'T speedlynch, then I'll have the time to read all 141 pages.
-Isos. Though the re-readthrough will be more helpful overall, Isos are like VCA, showing a potential trend I might have missed. On the seven key players, six of them I need a better read on.
-Cases. I asked before night yesterday for people to prepare cases on jason arguing one way or the other. Did anyone actually follow through? If so, they need to post 'em. If not, they should do so during the day...not during the night.

[Kise]

messenger is scum BTW

[Kise]

Which means Nero is town now so Mastin you and him should vote zab. I trust you guys now.

[mastin2]

Hey, AP, can you paraphrase the nature of what was in the message.

Also,

Nero:

Do you still think the messenger is town? VERY important question, considering I explicitly told the messenger to target Aco and that there'd be no excuses for them having not done so.

(Important stuff like this is ALSO why we shouldn't quicklynch.)