NY 160: Terrible Melodrama Mafia (Game Over)

[Gentlemen Bastards]

I'm not particularly interested in getting into a wall vs wall argument with F-16 since I think it'll kill the little activity the game is getting from other players and last time I got into an argument with scum everyone just ignored us and ruled it out as 'town vs town fighting' without putting any weight into the content of it so I'll go through this briefly and if Empire wants to go into more detail he can. 1) In games not ALL your reads have changed but there have been changes, new information had led you to re-evaluate reads or re-reads did and the reasoning behind the changes of reads allowed us to follow where your head was at, this game there was none of that at all. 2) I can't really comment much on this, I didn't read the scum-games, Empire did but stating that your depth of analysis is 'indistiguishable' is bullshit, everyone likes to think their differences between their town and scum play are minimal but it's not actually the case. 3) The jester game we or at least I treated as a trolololgame and not something serious when reading through it, didn't think meta comparison to it was useful and the other games haven't read. 4) The whole "this is a large harder to get reads than a micro" is bullshit, there's just as much information, maybe the strength of reads might differ due to process of elimination being harder to use at times but you'd still have town leans and scum leans the very same way, you're just making up excuses for not taking multiple initial stances. 5) Self-preservation

is

a scum-tell because while town don't like being lynched they know that they'd rather the lynch be between them and their scum-reads, not them and their null-read which is why you instantly stating willingness to vote RC to prevent your own lynch rather than push a scum read is scummy.

And 6) which is the most important one you've gone through this whole thing stating that Empire is 'twisting information' but refrained from stating a hard-read on us and it's because you know that you can't call us scum and get away with it, there's no chance of you getting our mslynch any-more and stating a bad stance against us will reflect badly on you so instead you're just avoiding just as you avoided my entire case on you, you only refuted Empires meta section and even then you avoided an important paragraph about de-crediting us and our reads and comments pre-emptively.

Okay, wow, that was meant to be much shorter than that. Sorry guys.

[Gentlemen Bastards]

Also Empire wanted to refrain from stating this because he didn't want to scare Nost of from bussing but Nost yesterday stating a scum-read on Empking, 4nxiety, RC and us, that's four living players that he has a scum-read on yet today he votes F-16. Entire thing comes across as F-16 saying to him at night 'We're fucked, don't defend me we have to buss each other to have a chance". We're lynching one today and the other tomorrow when they flip scum and I really really prefer we do F-16 first because I think once we die he might pull some crap out of his ass to evade the lynches.

[DeasVail]

Vote Count 4.02

F-16_Fighting_Falcon (4)- Gentlemen Bastards, N, Nostredeus, 4nxi3ty

[L-1]

Nostredeus (4)- Empking, Plan B, F-16_Fighting_Falcon, RedCoyote

[L-1]

Not voting: No one!

With 8 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

Deadline

(expired on 2012-12-25 07:00:00)

[Nostredeus]

Also Empire wanted to refrain from stating this because he didn't want to scare Nost of from bussing but Nost yesterday stating a scum-read on Empking, 4nxiety, RC and us, that's four living players that he has a scum-read on yet today he votes F-16. Entire thing comes across as F-16 saying to him at night 'We're fucked, don't defend me we have to buss each other to have a chance". We're lynching one today and the other tomorrow when they flip scum and I really really prefer we do F-16 first because I think once we die he might pull some crap out of his ass to evade the lynches.

On this: If I'm lynched and when I flip town continue to lynch F-16. (Then move on to Emp/RC)


The reason I'm voting F-16 is; GB's case, F-16's weak case, and the obvious fact that if it is between me and F-16 I want it to be F-16 given the fact that I know I'm 100% town and F-16 has a <100% chance of being town.

Standard stuff here really.

[Gentlemen Bastards]

Because I'm not scum, lunkhead.

I can't believe Nost managed to squeeze through yesterday. The scumteam obviously had a hand in sparing his life there.

GB has made a strong, steady case, but that's par for the course with them. F-16 is yesterday's news. Nost is what's happening.

Vote: Nostredeus

I would've done this yesterday, but I truly wasn't here. I work a graveyard shift. I didn't check the thread until a few hours after the lynch took place.

F-16 was hardly yesterday's news. The guy only had one vote on him (ours) through most of the day and was in no serious danger of being lynched. If anything,

Nostredeus

was yesterday's news -- he was the one who nearly got wagoned to a lynch. If you think our case is "strong and steady", why aren't you voting F-16?

Would like to also point out that Nostre's #803 is really really genuine which means we fucked up somewhere with our townreads.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

If you think Empire is deliberately picking meta to suit his case, do you think GB are scum? Does a GB/Nost team make sense to you?

I certainly think GB are smart enough to bus while planting fake-associative tells linking me and Nost. That way if Nost is lynched against their wishes and flips scum, they can go after me next. And if I get lynched and flip town, Nost doesn't look as suspicious because of how GB tied Nost to me.

We reached a deadlock. If you think both Nost and I are scum, why not vote Nost? That takes care of one scum and I'll defend why I am town tomorrow as opposed to GB.

unvote, vote: F16

due to Dy's comments about CB yet zero actual interaction.

I think DY did a great job leaving false trails. I tried reading into it and went on a wild goose chase of Jacob. It is hardly reliable.

Response to GB's 800, 801, and 804:

Regfan says that I have changed my reads based on new information in my town games. I have changed some reads based on new information here too. For instance, I was more convinced on UT being scum initially but after reading through, I voted Nost since he was more likely to be scum.

Empire provided no difference between my scum posting in Open 448 and town posting in my town games. He merely used exagerrated buzzwords to describe the two walls. As for the remaining comparisons, the meat of it was that my reads changed, but I've shown it depends much more on the gamestate than anything else.

The jester game wasn't a trololol game. I was town and there actually were scum that we needed to lynch. There simply happenned to be a jester in the game. I didn't have in-depth reads in that game because of low activity level. It isn't a scumtell for me to not pay as much attention to a game.

I haven't tried to "discredit" you at any point. I was BOPing you. I know you are very good at catching scum. The fact that you were completely off about me and continue to drive the lynch on me makes me think you are scum. I don't get why you think I am not stating a "hard read" on you. You aren't getting lynched today. Voting you isn't going to help. Besides Nost is a bigger scumread who actually has a chance of getting lynched today. Anyways... you are

scum

. Happy now?

Why do you find 804 "genuine?"

[Gentlemen Bastards]

I see no mention of you having a scum-read on UT, only see you saying there's nothing unusual between him and DY. There's little other mention of him and your change on Nost was at a time when there was a wagon growing on Nost so your change there isn't 'naturally explained' but rather a sheeping of things brought up by other people. Again will let Empire talk about the meta-based stuff but the jester game is a trollolgame because optimal scum-play is to be playing in a manner that makes the town uncertain whether they're town mucking around or jester trying to get lynched which in turn makes the town play a different level, it's not a normal mafia game at all and makes getting accurate meta of it near impossible.

And you have tried to discredit us at multiple occasions, the 'BoP' thing is just plain crap not to mention that you're now saying that your scum-read on us is based around us being 'wrong' on you which means it's just an OMGUS and given that you've seen us be incorrect as town before it makes no sense for you to have that stance at all. You also avoided stating a stance today, your entire defence didn't mention a read on us and yes, not stating it plainly has a lot of scum-motivation since scum-reading us requires you to actually back-up that read and forces you to 1 v 1 us whereas ignoring it means that you can try and play around the bush.

As for what's genuine about 803, the below is incredibly genuine and means we probably have a read wrong on 4nxiety or maybe RC.

On this: If I'm lynched and when I flip town continue to lynch F-16. (Then move on to Emp/RC)

[N]

As far as I can tell, Nost has no scum meta; what are you judging his play here against?

[Plan B]

@ DeasVail:
Unexpected V/LA until Monday, 12/17/12, per the message I sent you.

Apologies. Personal stuff.

[RedCoyote]

GB has been on F-16's case almost from the beginning of the game. I must say that I do feel like F-16, as town, would've been more adept and keeping himself motivated and up-to-date. I'm one to talk, but F-16 certainly spent a great deal of time talking down JS. Coming from someone that had suspected JS early on, it did become increasingly apparent, likely from the end of the first day, that that wasn't where we needed to go.

Analyzing the nightkills, I'm not particularly worried we'd be lynching a Vig in F-16. GB and N have both presented stronger cases on F-16 than I can muster on Nost. I don't agree with them on Nost, but I'm not prepared to make F-16 into any sort of strong townread of mine (in contrast with how GB views Nost, for example).

F-16, let's go ahead and see your claim, please.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

I am a 1X cop. I waived N1. Checked JS N2.

[N]

UNVOTE:
Why did you not use it night 1?

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

I wasn't caught up yet so any choice would have been random. Since it was only 1X, I wanted to save it for when I had a strong enough read.

[4nxi3ty]

F16, explain some townreads?

RC, who were you referring to when you said: scum had a hand in sparing Nost's life?

Nost, which people were you alluding to when you said: no is looking at the people who joined your wagon as suspicious?

[Nostredeus]

UNVOTE: RedCoyote
VOTE: Nostredeus

Throws the town into disarray at the lead up to deadline for no stated reason; making sure RC lives and making sure the only outcome is a no lynch or me dead, which as you'll no doubt end up seeing would have been a mis-lynch.

The scummiest people in the game are chilling out on my wagon as plain as day; I suppose if I do die it wont all be a total waste, it might get people to look at them.


Since an F-16 lynch isn't going to happen after that weak-sauce claim I suppose I'll get back on track:

Vote: RC

[RedCoyote]

So, let me get this straight. You attack Plan B, but you don't have the balls to vote him. So you try to sneak a vote on me at the end instead? When neither of us have any votes? Talk about disingenuous.

F-16, your claim technically adds up, but I still have a sense eating at me that you're not being truthful.

GB, I really want to give y'all support, but I am really, really struggling to see townNost here. Every single post he makes gives me the willies. Had I thought UT was going to be such a hard sell yesterday, I'd have been more than willing to push Nost yesterday. It really only came down to me likely adorkable a teensy bit more.

[Gentlemen Bastards]

Posting to say that it's my birthday today and I have plans both today and tomorrow so I won't be able to post much if at all. I think Regfan's out for a couple of days too. Will get in a full response to F-16 when I come back though.

[RedCoyote]

Happy Birthday, Empire.

[Nostredeus]

So, let me get this straight. You attack Plan B, but you don't have the balls to vote him. So you try to sneak a vote on me at the end instead? When neither of us have any votes? Talk about disingenuous.

Pointing something out doesn't mean you think they're the best lynch on the day; but keep trying it's coming off as really town to the rest of us.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

@ RC and everyone else, why are you so convinced GB is town? I am trying to see things from their perspective but they have offered literally nothing. So far, they pushed 2 mislynches, stalled the third day into a no lynch and are now pushing one more (me). I have a hard time believing they are town.

[Nostredeus]

@ RC and everyone else, why are you so convinced GB is town? I am trying to see things from their perspective but they have offered literally nothing. So far, they pushed 2 mislynches, stalled the third day into a no lynch and are now pushing one more (me). I have a hard time believing they are town.

I have a null read right now after having previously had a scum read on GB and 4nxiety. I have of course considered that scum might be playing two town players off against each other; in the event that is what is happening there would be a scum player on both wagons, I don't need to lynch GB to determine if that is a strong possibility I can lynch likely scum players on my wagon and determine it through inference. Whether GB is town or scum RC is a good lynch.

[DeasVail]

Prodding Empking.

[Empking]

Still voting Nost.

[4nxi3ty]

Unvote

@ RC and everyone else, why are you so convinced GB is town? I am trying to see things from their perspective but they have offered literally nothing. So far, they pushed 2 mislynches, stalled the third day into a no lynch and are now pushing one more (me). I have a hard time believing they are town.

this is a very town thing to say.

The way GB has attacked, defended people and explained their thought process comes across as very much a town mindset. And Senjai's play was townish as well. Just cause you don't agree with their conclusions or they have bad reads doesn't mean they are scum.

Still want to see some town reads from you so I can get a more definite read of you.

Nost dropping his empking scumread today doesn't really make sense.
RC and Nost attacking each other yet both placing doubt onto F16 is something to note. The asking F16 to claim seemed like RC was getting ready to jump off the Nost wagon and hammer F16.

[Nostredeus]

Nost dropping his empking scumread today doesn't really make sense.
RC and Nost attacking each other yet both placing doubt onto F16 is something to note. The asking F16 to claim seemed like RC was getting ready to jump off the Nost wagon and hammer F16.

I still think Emp is scum, but there's no chance of an Emp lynch because everyone is cool with giving scum an easy ride; I think RC is probably Emp's partner so RC is the next best hit.