Kingmaker II-Game Over

[spectrumvoid]

Oops... I'm really sorry, it was pooky not petroleumjelly. I messed up the abbreviations. *bangs head on wall*

I agree with the Phoebus vote. (I've stated my reasons before somewhere). What's a newbie like box doing in a large theme? Not sure what to think of Pab for the moment.

[cardb0ardb0x]

If only I were scum, I would be a genius.

[Thok]

Nonetheless,

vote: ChannelDelibird

. I find that both Mert and CDB are openly suspecting people because of themes (wacky voting or tying people together) and are failing to jump out of that box.

This is probably a weak case, but the patterns are too odd to not point out. Plus I find that sensible scum often hide behind such "rules" so that they can justify their votes.

You seem to have a rule of voting for people who vote based off of rules. I'm curious to see if you plan to vote yourself.

It's also weird that you vote CDB for following a rule in a post where you claimed he broke that rule. This is the second time where your words and your votes don't seem to match up.

[Fritzler]

What? I never said anything about having keyboard problems.

FoS: SpectrumVoid

. Care to explain that statement?

he's confusing you with pooky
duh

[Yosarian2]

PJ... if there's no conversation at all and BMQ is forced to impose a deadline, then what are you going to do? I the last post I made (or maybe second to last) I asked for a LoE, because no one had posted at all... and since then, no real content has been posted. It's not a good idea for the town to drag through the day and then be forced to choose basically a random person to excecute at the last minute because of a deadline. If we can narrow our search and pick out the best candidates out of the people w/ the most votes, then maybe we'll be able to reach a discision before the game dies again. It feels as if the game is draggin unneccessarily at this point... and that actual contribution from the players is nonexistant (or, no content is being posted, take your pick)

Besides, no one is really voting for anyone, and no one is anywhere close to majority... If you don't put at least a couple of people on by your own discression... there won't be a LoE until it's too late to discuss our options.

Agreed. PJ, if you don't want to make a formal LOE just yet, I'd like it if you at least listed a few people you are especally suspicious of at the moment, so we can get some pressure going on someone and get the game moving. The town can't really pressure people very effectivly here; the responsibility to pressure people into getting rections kind of falls on the King.

[Glork]

I'd like Mert and Spectrumvoid to restate their reasons for putting votes on cardboardbox and Phoebus.

[pablito]

You seem to have a rule of voting for people who vote based off of rules. I'm curious to see if you plan to vote yourself.

It's also weird that you vote CDB for following a rule in a post where you claimed he broke that rule. This is the second time where your words and your votes don't seem to match up.

If it so pleases Thok, I would vote myself. It would be an inconsequential vote for the most part, but yeah, it might lead to a majority vote on me. Nonetheless, I feel confident enough with my position in the town and my actions that I could fight my way out of being executed despite an inclusion on a LoE. I don't think it's less than obvious that I'm intentionally being visible today and making unnecessary defenses for people that don't necessarily need or should be defended.

[Thok]

You do realize that in this game, placing a majority vote doesn't matter? The difference between a person having 13 or 14 votes is irrelevant; in either case a substantial number of people find that person suspsicious, and the king can take that into consideration.

It's unclear to me how your wildness/unnecessary behavior is helping town find scum; it's clear that your behavior encourages people to focus on you and allows others to hide while you dance around going "Tra La La, look at me, I are smart".

Wither Vaughn?

[pablito]

It's unclear to me how your wildness/unnecessary behavior is helping town find scum; it's clear that your behavior encourages people to focus on you and allows others to hide while you dance around going "Tra La La, look at me, I are smart".

Well technically, town don't have to find scum, just the kings. So there :p

Well, Thok, wrong or not, would you rather I shut up? I don't see how that helps any more. I can tone myself down, but I think pointing at some of the lesser visible players is only helping the town. While I have attracted attention, I have also pointed out some of the people that have stayed in the limelight. I know my arguments aren't always the best, but I pick up on the small things that no one else sees.

[pablito]

Yeah, after re-reading the above post, I really don't like it. I really gotta shut up more often.

[spectrumvoid]

[quote="spectrumvoid"]Box. I'm not buying the newbieness. Playing on emotion is a scum-tell. Claiming when not under pressure is a scum-tell. Giving up is a scum-tell. [\quote]

I know box is a newbie, but this is a large theme and therefore I'm not cutting him slack.

[spectrumvoid]

My original reason for voting phoebus.

Yep, phoebus is the total opposite of MMOS. But while MMOS claims to think that we can look through his posts to make notes anyway (which is something that I do to everyone anyway whether they vote or not), Phoebus claims to play by gut. While I know that isn't a strong scummy behaviour, it makes it easier for him to randomly accuse others to create confusion (because he won't state cases).

Then I decided that it might just be his playstyle. But something else came up:

Vote: Phoebus, I am not liking the coincidental nature of his votes.

Urgh.

I have not read the first kingmaker.
I do not have cases against these people.
I do not know whether I will be building cases.
I play by gut.

Wake me up when September ends.

As it happens, this was the sixth vote on MBL, the seventh vote on Cb0x, and the sixth vote on Pablito. This post was simply jumping on the three people with the biggest wagons, on the basis of "gut".

vote: Mert

And this post was the fourth vote on Mert, which was the largest wagon that Phoebus was not on. Right now, Phoebus' vote is on all four of the largest bandwagons, and all of it on "gut". I would like to hear more explanations for his votes.

.

So my vote on him stays.

[spectrumvoid]

I like people who talk, like Pablito. So don't shut up. By sticking up for certain people, it makes it easier for us to tell what his alignment is.

[Glork]

Mert... you're up, slugger.

[Thok]

Well, Thok, wrong or not, would you rather I shut up? I don't see how that helps any more. I can tone myself down, but I think pointing at some of the lesser visible players is only helping the town. While I have attracted attention, I have also pointed out some of the people that have stayed in the limelight. I know my arguments aren't always the best, but I pick up on the small things that no one else sees.

I don't necessarily want you to shut up, but I think if you are town, you'd be better served by thinking through your posts more carefully.

[pablito]

Agreed.

[Mert]

My original vote for Cb0x was random, of course, but when he went on to say that he had only voted "because he was told to" it struck me as a possible attempt to set up future doubt in people's minds about whether his voting pattern means as much as it does for other players, for example. I didn't like his reasoning in that post, but his "fine, lynch me" post is what really convinced me that my vote could stay there.

In the sort space of time I've been posting on this site, I've already seen this kind of approach twice before in completed games in which I have taken part and in both games the person that did it was scum. I sort of fell for it a little the first time, which sucked and so I'm far more suspicious of it now. But more than thinking it's a bona fide scumtell per se, I still look at people with greater scrutiny that I would do otherwise. I just hate the appeal to emotions bit, I guess as I think it's a cheap last resort.

As for Phoebus, he gets my vote for generally posting without any content. His Post 152 comments that he doesn't have cases against the people he had voted for, nor would he likely be. I similarly dislike this approach as it's not giving the town any information at all, really. Surely the posts you make and the things you say are just as likely to convince the town that you are on their side as they are to imply you are scum? The only reason, to my mind, to hide your thoughts from the town are because you are worried about the latter or not confident enough in the former.

I hope that answers you sufficiently, Glork, but if you need more info then give me a shout.

[Glork]

What about your bird1111 vote?

[Mert]

The vote on Bird is because he originally posted a couple of pseudo-random votes, retracted them saying they were "joke votes" and that he'd "gone too far" with them.

Pablito later asked him to explain in greater depth, to which he merely restated the fact that they were joke votes. Bird is the person who has irked me least of the three, but he hasn't really given me a reason to take my vote off either. He is lurking to quite a degree and an increase in posting might well change my opinion of him, but since all he's done is vote, tell people they were joke votes when pressed and then say again that they were jokes, I so no reason to unvote at this time.

[Glork]

Last question: Is there anybody else you're considering voting right now?

[Mert]

There are a few people that I've been mulling over in my mind, but I'd like to answer that after I've done a re-read if that's okay? There are people that I'm thinking about but that is different to considering voting for them... will let you know as soon as I've re-read.

[Glork]

Works for me.

I'd noticed that you and SpectrumVoid were on the largest wagons at the moment, and that your other vote happened to be on the birdwagon (which is the third largest wagon). I myself plan on doing a re-read in the next couple of days in order to sort through everything. But in the meantime, I was just looking for full, reiterated explanations.

[Mert]

Not a problem, have no reason not to oblige.

[Thok]

Just to make sure he doesn't avoid being pressured (only two posts, one of which is to promote a glork/pablito pairing), I'll

vote Dead Rikimaru

, although he should also possibly be prodded.

I'll also

vote Nightson

, mostly metagame based on vikingfan being replaced.

[petroleumjelly]

Just read that last couple pages, here are my (few) thoughts, I'll try to be brief (since I am trying to post in all of my games tonight):

1.) I am feeling better about Glork after reading through his interaction with Mert and after rereading his posts from an attempted more objective point of view. I will admit I have fantasized about executing him today and watching him come up scum (I think that would be ironically apropos), but I haven't managed to convince myself he's scum. ><

2.) Since it's pretty clear I'm not the Kingmaker, I think I will advocate a Glork-King tomorrow, although I think I would personally prefer a Thok-King (simply because Thok almost seems to be matching my brainwaves this game), both strong players (who are attentive to the game), and who I am currently thinking are likely to be town.

3.) If a deadline is imposed which cannot be retracted (to respond to Twomz), I will clearly be forced into making a premature LoE and executing from that List whether I wish to or not. Until that time, I will play as I see fit, and not try to rush things.

To respond about the "who I am suspicious" of comments, it really is not too difficult to read back on my posts and determine who I have voted or expressed suspicions of. My current suspicions are primarily Bird1111 (which began for very weak reasons, but there has been absolutely no content from Bird which leads me to want to change my opinion on him) and Phoebus (for his voting record on the largest bandwagons on the basis of 'gut', which I simply have a hard time 'digesting').

I haven't had many 'strong' feelings about other players, but I am becoming worried about Pablito and cb0x (still thinking they are both town, however), and more recently, a

slight

pinging on Twomz for his continual sense of urgency in me making a LoE (although since such an attitude seems to be consistent with his normal playstyle, I am probably making this comment more in general annoyance rather than from actual suspicion). I am really not confident enough to threaten anybody with a pending execution at this time.