Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Legacy (Game Over)
-
-
mastin2 The Second Coming
- The Second Coming
- The Second Coming
- Posts: 14413
- Joined: October 8, 2009
- Location: Replacement Alley
So, you think MoI is town, despite
-Throwing away a gamebreakingly powerful role and instead choosing to mislynch it d2, and
-Pushing a mislynch on El, who we now know to be town, and
-Pushing a mislynch on myk, who I now know to be town, and
-Pushing a mislynch on me, when I am town?
Wouldn't surprise me if MoI came in and began attacking Zab, either.
But I'm a good 90% sure Zab's playing inside his town meta right now, so that's not a lynch I'll support any time soon.
'Specially not when Aco--MoI's scumbuddy--is distancing MoI by putting him in the scumlist but refusing to actually lynch him.My academy.
"...You have a blog?!?" (Yes, I do. Click.)
Agnigi, 13p Mini Theme sequel to Gistou, is in design and could use reviewers!-
-
Yates Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 5119
- Joined: October 12, 2011
- Location: In your closet. In your head.
In post 2975, mastin2 wrote:So, you think MoI is town, despite
-Throwing away a gamebreakingly powerful role and instead choosing to mislynch it d2, and
-Pushing a mislynch on El, who we now know to be town, and
-Pushing a mislynch on myk, who I now know to be town, and
-Pushing a mislynch on me, when I am town?
Wouldn't surprise me if MoI came in and began attacking Zab, either.
1. In fairness, Tammy *was* an SK type of role [typically Anti-Town]. I thought she was an actual vig. I probably would have been more likely to lynch her if I believed she was SK [at least - I would have been less resistant]. This is a strategy decision that doesn't prove MoI is scum. Even if MoI *IS* scum, this wouldn't be a reason fo it and his meta posts support his decision. If anything, Ben also supporting the Tammy lynch should tell you something about how alignment confirming that stance was.
2. Being wrong isn't necessarily scummy.
3. Same as two. Though we don't have a confirmation on that.
4. Same as three. I *think* pretty strongly that you are Town but otherwise that would be confirmation bias on your part.
So yeah. I still think MoI is likely Town for my own reasons [mostly meta]. And none of the reasons you posted carry much weight under scrutiny. I think you are tunneling a bit and sincerely hope you will reevaluate some of these points.Coming soon: 50 Shades of Null
Please pm me to pre-in-
-
mastin2 The Second Coming
- The Second Coming
- The Second Coming
- Posts: 14413
- Joined: October 8, 2009
- Location: Replacement Alley
Except, MoI's meta as town suggests he'd have taken the gamebreakingly powerful strategy. I've seen him as town, and he won't waste an opportunity for one.
He did this game.
And it's more than being wrong. It's not so much who you're pushing, but why.
I do constantly re-evaluate, Yates.
Every damn day (not gameday, though I do do that as well ), more than any other player.
I think things through. I evaluate my stances. I review the evidence and look at what I know. I never tunnel, no matter how much it may seem like it.
I'm willing to acknowledge that MoI could be town. It's possible, yes. But it's not probable. He's not playing as town. He's playing with a survivalistic attitude, trying everything he can to get extra days in his life. Look at who he's pushed. He's pushing the easy mislynch myk. He pushed the easy mislynch El. Heck, the hardest lynch he's pushing is my own, and even then, that's not too hard to do, since I'm an extremely underrated player with an unjustified reputation for being anti-town. And on what MoI knows of me (I know more of him than he does of me), he'd believe me to be easy a-la-Palisade in Zachrulez's Large Normal.
He even backed his way out of the 1V1 successfully. His reasons for it were complete BS, but it slid away because he directed attention away from him and onto El and myk.
Again, this isn't confirmation bias. This is logic. MoI is playing to survive. He could be town, yes, but he isn't. He's pushing about every advantage he can, from myk to El to me to Tammy to Nero to the messenger. He's not scumhunting. He's casting doubt in all the right places, pushing all the easy lynches.
Oh, make that all the easy lynches except for the ones on his scumbuddies, like Kise and Aco.My academy.
"...You have a blog?!?" (Yes, I do. Click.)
Agnigi, 13p Mini Theme sequel to Gistou, is in design and could use reviewers!-
-
mykonian Frisian Shoulder-Demon
- Frisian Shoulder-Demon
- Frisian Shoulder-Demon
- Posts: 11963
- Joined: August 27, 2008
I mean, you are right. I know you are right, I see the things you mention in your case. But fuck it if I let Pidgey get away with the lies he's posting, the complete inability to do anything which doesn't have anything to do with me for the last couple of days, and all that because I was the first to suspect him.
Sometimes I wish we still had Tammy around. A dayvig would come in very handy.Surrender, imagine and of course wear something nice.-
-
pidgey Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 3195
- Joined: October 30, 2011
-
-
AngryPidgeon Glenn Peck
- Glenn Peck
- Glenn Peck
- Posts: 18863
- Joined: June 17, 2012
- Location: a Zulfy thread
In post 2968, mastin2 wrote:I'm the new Tammy.
Huh?
In post 2969, mastin2 wrote:Elscouta - 9 (Cheery Dog, Acosmist, AngryPidgeon, MagnaofIllusion, Kise, Thor665, Kublai Khan, Yates, jasonT1981)
I'm willing to be everyone after Thor was town.
So everyone after Thor is town because scum wouldn't NK Thor after being on a wagon after him? Mmmmm.
I wouldn't even say that the people after Thor sheeped Thor. The wagon was looking inevitable around that time. KK hopped on because Elscouta wouldn't claim. Yates/Jason were just there for the inevitability of it IIRC. Why is Thor such a distinctive point of the wagon (and "because he was NK'd" is a terrible answer). And saying that scum would leave Thor alive because they were on the wagon after him (even if they were blatantly sheeping him) is ridiculous. Why? Its not like sheeping one player all game is a viable scum-strat.
Re Mykonian: Ok. I'll admit Mykonian v Pidgey looks a little genuine. And I was scrounging for D2 quotes and I thought I remembered Mykonian saying that lynching Tammy was strictly anti-town but I can't find that anywhere now. But the even/odd argument was still shallow and reeks of someone just trying to say something relevant.
In post 2972, mastin2 wrote:Worth noting, Thor pushed on MoI and Kise quite a bit. Thor doesn't strike me as the kind of guy who likes to be subtle, so I'm pretty sure that aside from El, those two were his main suspects.
Thor also said he would be willing to 'wagon most of us' when I asked him something about his suspects. He also suspected Jason's hammer. Why are those not relevant?
And the fact he flipped Doc makes it at least plausible that the scumteam has a rolecop and found him (making NK spec pointless)
In post 2975, mastin2 wrote:So, you think MoI is town, despite
-Throwing away a gamebreakingly powerful role and instead choosing to mislynch it d2, and
-Pushing a mislynch on El, who we now know to be town, and
-Pushing a mislynch on myk, who I now know to be town, and
-Pushing a mislynch on me, when I am town?
Wouldn't surprise me if MoI came in and began attacking Zab, either.
But I'm a good 90% sure Zab's playing inside his town meta right now, so that's not a lynch I'll support any time soon.
'Specially not when Aco--MoI's scumbuddy--is distancing MoI by putting him in the scumlist but refusing to actually lynch him.
1. Irrelevant. Town benmage also did the same. As did Town WrathChild. And town me. I refuse to believe this has anything to do with alignment.
2. Pushing ML's isn't a scumtell. Also, I wanted Els. He was scummy as hell.
3. Myk is not conf-town at all.
4.
5. Zab is also scummy as hell. Read my old case on him. Zab is probably not town and this point is a self-fulfilling prophecy because MoI already expressed interest there.
In post 2977, mastin2 wrote:Except, MoI's meta as town suggests he'd have taken the gamebreakingly powerful strategy.
Except it wasn't a clearcut good strategy. Tammy was a wildcard. And MoI reasonably has other opinions about good gameplay. I 100% disagreed with his plan in Switchboard and thought he was scummy for it. We were both town. Opinions on strategy are just that - opinions.
UNVOTE: Zab
VOTE: Mastin2
Mastin, what do you think of Nero testing Acosmist's claim? It is essentially a hide on Acosmist. We can clear someone who is unkillable or get a guilty on scum.-
-
MagnaofIllusion has been killed Night 1
- has been killed Night 1
- has been killed Night 1
- Posts: 13964
- Joined: February 9, 2010
- Location: Assimilating the world ...
I’m going to respond to Mastin’s wave of post with one quote that shows he’s basically not honestly approaching the subject of “MoI is playing to his scum meta”. Whether that lack of honesty is from pride or being scum is up in the air for me.
Mastin wrote:
Except, MoI's meta as town suggests he'd have taken the gamebreakingly powerful strategy. I've seen him as town, and he won't waste an opportunity for one.
He did this game.
This is a bold-faced lie. I can’t put it any more clearly than that. Mastin keeps repeating (again, Appeal to Repition) that leashing a SK is a Powerful, game-breaking strategy. It isn’t. He’s yet to provideevidence that shows doing so has Pro-Town results despite me repeatedly asking for such evidence during Day 2. All I ever got in response is “Double Day is Pro-Town” which isn’t an answer and also isn’t anything other than an unproven assertion. Again – no-one is providing any evidence that Double Day is a powerful Town tool. Whenever I ask for evidence to support that the response is just “Err, because I say it is”. Once again I will respond as follows – more Scum teams have won Open Double-Day set-ups as reported on the Wiki (that I can find, anyway) than Town teams have. So unless someone has a resource that shows it is overwhelmingly Pro-Town that I am missing please link me to it.ANY
MASTIN – time to put up or shut up on this lie – please link to ANY Town MoI game where I advocate leashing a SK (or suspected SK, or hell even directing a Vig) as a Pro-Town stance.
Because I know you can’t. Because I don’t believe in such. I can again providelinks showing my belief as Town that leashing a Killer is terrible Town play and should not be done.MULTIPLE
So either do so or I’ll simply call you “Lying Stupid Town / Lying Scum” every time you bring up that argument.
--
VOTE: Mykonian
I do appreciate how many people today who supported Els as a lynch suddenly are calling me scummy today. My definition of appreciate is different than yours in this statement, for the record.
--
Yates wrote: Vote: JasonT1981
It's not the hammer so much as 2881.
Remind me … did you vote for mykonian at the start of Day 2 based on his hammer Day 1? I’m too lazy to ISO you right now.
--
Nero wrote: oh look, a "Nero didn't do what I would have done therefore he's scum" Get your head out of your arse. He’s scum so he’s just being obtuse.
Bullshit. This is the “throw mud at those suspecting me” defense. Why don’t you refute my actual statements?
Please explain why you didn’t Insta-Neighborize Benmage Night 2. “I didn’t want to” isn’t an explanation that supports your play from a Town perspective. Especially given you per mastin can do more than 1 person a Night.
Nero wrote: Lol no. I never said anything like “I didn’t target last night ‘cause I want to save my shots” Keep putting words into my mouth, I’m sure you’ll fool someone.
Bullshit. You never said ANYTHING about why you didn’t. And then you claimed to be an X-shot when you name claimed. If that isn’t the reason why you didn’t make a clearly Pro-Town choice with Benmage please, as requested above, please enlighten us.
Nero wrote: So you do this all the time and its ok but when I do it its scummy? Way to slip.
Hey, look – more mud-slinging.
Link to support this statement or admit you are fabricating"I am a leaf on the wind ... watch how I soar!"
Pretty much Geriatric game restricted at this point ... unless there are players I REALLY want to play with.-
-
MagnaofIllusion has been killed Night 1
- has been killed Night 1
- has been killed Night 1
- Posts: 13964
- Joined: February 9, 2010
- Location: Assimilating the world ...
-
-
AngryPidgeon Glenn Peck
- Glenn Peck
- Glenn Peck
- Posts: 18863
- Joined: June 17, 2012
- Location: a Zulfy thread
-
-
MagnaofIllusion has been killed Night 1
- has been killed Night 1
- has been killed Night 1
- Posts: 13964
- Joined: February 9, 2010
- Location: Assimilating the world ...
In post 2983, AngryPidgeon wrote:MoI, how willing would you be to vote Mastin?
I think I've been giving him a blind eye for living up to his town-self this game.
If I were to lynch him it probably would be at deadline. My gut says that mastin wouldn't be so willing to spend 3 game days calling me scum with no justification that he can support if he was scum. Otherwise my eventual Town flip would make all his "I am playing to my scum meta" a ticket to rope-ville. But that's just gut and I'll have to re-assess the rest of his play as it relates to others (I especially want to look at Thor's slot and how he treated them) to help to winnow out the inherent frustration his stupidity regarding me is generating in my heart. I'll also need to look at a few recent scum games of his to see if he tunnels this terribly as scum.
Angry - why exactly are you asking me this given you just were calling me scum with Zabriel?"I am a leaf on the wind ... watch how I soar!"
Pretty much Geriatric game restricted at this point ... unless there are players I REALLY want to play with.-
-
AngryPidgeon Glenn Peck
- Glenn Peck
- Glenn Peck
- Posts: 18863
- Joined: June 17, 2012
- Location: a Zulfy thread
In post 2984, MagnaofIllusion wrote:Angry - why exactly are you asking me this given you just were calling me scum with Zabriel?
I'm not sold on that idea. Hence why I was voting Zab and not you.
Ya, you're probably town though. Why did you ask me about not voting Zab though?
He IS providing justification though. His last post mentions you trying to ML Elscouta, Mykonian, and him as reasons for suspecting you. Its bad reasoning, but he IS providing fall back reasoning. If you flip town he can say "well his push on me was scummy and opportunistic and backing down from the 1v1 gave me bad vibes". And he can still say that your Mykonian push was really bad (since in this hypothetical situation he/Mykonian would still be alive) and that you were scummy for suspecting obvtown players.
And his Elscouta wagon analysis reeks of selective scumhunting and trying to read into something for the sake of having opinions.-
-
mastin2 The Second Coming
- The Second Coming
- The Second Coming
- Posts: 14413
- Joined: October 8, 2009
- Location: Replacement Alley
AP--
Yes and no. Yes, they were sheeping Thor, because Thor asked most of them to be on the wagon.
But they'd probably be there anyway even if he hadn't.
But there's more to it than that. The end of the El wagon is exactly like the end of the Tammy wagon--a deadline lynch, made because we literally had no other option and El wasn't being cooperative.
Those are circumstances which breed town players jumping on.
As for why I'm Tammy, it's 'cause in addition to being neighborized by Nero, I've also been sent a message by the messenger again. I now know who they are, and to answer that other question, because Nero is limited-shot, I'd much rather have the messenger target Aco.
Speaking of which, I want the town to swear to this statement:
If the messenger targets Aco tonight guaranteed, we put aside the messenger's alignment until tomorrow, since some of you think the messenger role comes from scum. If we can get a majority to follow this pledge, then the messenger should claim and agree to this plan. (Honestly, if they're just sending reads every night, there isn't much more they can do that they haven't already done. )
Beyond that, you're also ignoring that I'm not just pushing MoI for pushing the mislynches.Spoiler: As for MoI...
I'm pushing him on the why, which I've done my best to show.
Not only that, but I've also shown a consistent pattern! He pushed Tammy, who for all intensive purposes was a mislynch. He pushed El to lynch, who we know was a mislynch. He's pushing myk for a lynch, who I know to be town. He's been pushing me as scum, and yet I am town.
Pushing one mislynch is not a scumtell.
Pushing consistent mislynches, especially from a player such as MagnaofIllusion, is.My academy.
"...You have a blog?!?" (Yes, I do. Click.)
Agnigi, 13p Mini Theme sequel to Gistou, is in design and could use reviewers!-
-
mastin2 The Second Coming
- The Second Coming
- The Second Coming
- Posts: 14413
- Joined: October 8, 2009
- Location: Replacement Alley
And unlike SOMEONE, I might add, I follow through on my 1v1s.
If MoI flipped town, I'd lynch myself. No questions asked. No excuses, no "welp, I'm sorry", no "MoI, you suck", no nothing.
He won't, though. As evident by his having backed out of the 1V1 for BS reasons. Had he ever gotten a mislynch on me, he would do exactly what AP thinks I would do. (AP clearly isn't familiar with how I do 1V1s. As a hint, I'm always the aggressor and initiate them, with as much confidence as I can be that I'm lynching scum.)My academy.
"...You have a blog?!?" (Yes, I do. Click.)
Agnigi, 13p Mini Theme sequel to Gistou, is in design and could use reviewers!-
-
MagnaofIllusion has been killed Night 1
- has been killed Night 1
- has been killed Night 1
- Posts: 13964
- Joined: February 9, 2010
- Location: Assimilating the world ...
So two more posts from mastin that amount to "No, You" on his unproven stance that Leashing a Serial Killer isn't smart and not a single link supporting his "Town MoI would want to leash a SK".
Noted."I am a leaf on the wind ... watch how I soar!"
Pretty much Geriatric game restricted at this point ... unless there are players I REALLY want to play with.-
-
AngryPidgeon Glenn Peck
- Glenn Peck
- Glenn Peck
- Posts: 18863
- Joined: June 17, 2012
- Location: a Zulfy thread
In post 2986, mastin2 wrote:But there's more to it than that. The end of the El wagon is exactly like the end of the Tammy wagon--a deadline lynch, made because we literally had no other option and El wasn't being cooperative.
Those are circumstances which breed town players jumping on.
And not scum players as well?
In post 2986, mastin2 wrote:If the messenger targets Aco tonight guaranteed, we put aside the messenger's alignment until tomorrow, since some of you think the messenger role comes from scum. If we can get a majority to follow this pledge, then the messenger should claim and agree to this plan. (Honestly, if they're just sending reads every night, there isn't much more they can do that they haven't already done. )
Why not have Nero do it?
In post 2986, mastin2 wrote:The pro-town results of a double-day are self-evident. Two town-controlled kills rather than one.
MoI passed on that, in favor of lynching her.
Yes, but you can't argue that town players (you admit to Ben doing it) ALSO did that. So how is it a scumtell as opposed to opinion or just derp? It doesn't matter how right you are or think you are. Someone disagreeing with you is not a scumtell.
In post 2986, mastin2 wrote:Beyond that, you're also ignoring that I'm not just pushing MoI for pushing the mislynches.
Yes, but its hard to fall back on "MoI was misrepping" and "Everyone pushing the Tammy lynch was scum" if MoI flips town. Your recent points ARE things that can be fallen back on and MoI specifically brought fall-back points up so I was mentioning yours.-
-
AngryPidgeon Glenn Peck
- Glenn Peck
- Glenn Peck
- Posts: 18863
- Joined: June 17, 2012
- Location: a Zulfy thread
-
-
Yates Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 5119
- Joined: October 12, 2011
- Location: In your closet. In your head.
This is a good point.In post 2980, AngryPidgeon wrote:And the fact he flipped Doc makes it at least plausible that the scumteam has a rolecop and found him (making NK spec pointless)
In post 2980, AngryPidgeon wrote:But the even/odd argument was still shallow and reeks of someone just trying to say something relevant.
Wait. Didn't you just make an even/odd argument in your Nero tests Acosmist post?
In post 2981, MagnaofIllusion wrote:Remind me … did you vote for mykonian at the start of Day 2 based on his hammer Day 1? I’m too lazy to ISO you right now.
I did but in his case it looked like a quick hammer from someone who had just replaced in and had clearly not read the game. I realize these two incidents make it LOOK like I am suspicious of the hammer but it wasn't the actual hammer in either instance so much as the stuff that lead up to [in Myk's case] or immediately followed [in Jason's case] the hammer.Coming soon: 50 Shades of Null
Please pm me to pre-in-
-
AngryPidgeon Glenn Peck
- Glenn Peck
- Glenn Peck
- Posts: 18863
- Joined: June 17, 2012
- Location: a Zulfy thread
In post 2991, Yates wrote:Wait. Didn't you just make an even/odd argument in your Nero tests Acosmist post?
Not really.
Mykonian was arguing that Tammy should be kept alive purely to put as at odds.
I'm arguing that Nero Cain testing Acosmist's claim gives us a benefit (conf-towning someone that can't be NK'd or proving that he is scum) and doesn't provide much drawback (losing someone that is probably getting ML'd if town and bringing us to odds which doesn't lose us a lynch).
Basically Mykonian argued that being at evens is a compelling reason to leave Tammy alive. Im arguing that being at evens makes having Nero do this have little drawback.
And mykonian flat out flip-flopped on his Tammy opinion for unknown reasons. Thats what was scummy about it. Not that he supports being at odds in itself.-
-
Cheery Dog Kayak
- Kayak
- Kayak
- Posts: 8039
- Joined: June 30, 2012
- Location: OMG BALL!
@mastin; how who you know myk is town now and not just based off your reads as you are claiming?
Did thor say anything in the neighborhood?Holder of the Longest Continuous Weekly Mafiascum Post Record. 1 July 2012 - 16 Feb 2023
*It may be held by someone else if you discount the major downtime in 2012 and 2014, I'm not doing the research.-
-
Acosmist Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 1734
- Joined: August 12, 2009
In post 59, Acosmist wrote:Anyone who targets me for any reason will die.Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens.-
-
AngryPidgeon Glenn Peck
- Glenn Peck
- Glenn Peck
- Posts: 18863
- Joined: June 17, 2012
- Location: a Zulfy thread
-
-
Acosmist Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 1734
- Joined: August 12, 2009
-
-
Yates Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 5119
- Joined: October 12, 2011
- Location: In your closet. In your head.
In post 2996, Acosmist wrote:Sure. Nero has to understand that he will definitely die, and nothing can prevent it.
But you are also saying it may not be immediate?Coming soon: 50 Shades of Null
Please pm me to pre-in-
-
Kise Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 8337
- Joined: May 26, 2009
Cut the crap PV
In post 2447, PeregrineV wrote:In post 1383, Benmage wrote:Remember, BC is scum too.
Vote: WrathChild
Were you or were you not insinuating the cop had a guilty? What reason here were you voting Wrath?
Oh so Nero recruited Thor? Gee we shouldn't think he's scum now. Scum would never kill someone they wasted a neighborize on right?They have escaped into the mansion where they thought it was safe.
Yet…-
-
pappums rat Mafia Scum
Copyright © MafiaScum. All rights reserved.