Mini 1397: War is Hell (Game Over)

[PeregrineV]

WHEN YOU HURT SOMEONE WITH NO VOTES! That is when it changed. You voided ALL the rules, and until you're dead the town cannot return to those rules. We still have a consensus on you and you will die. Period.

I've votes you now to make it official.

Tierce hurt at 4 votes. Did she break the rules?

An this is a direct contratiction to this:

If someone takes off the pedal, and unvotes someone back down to 4, hurting stops. 5 votes is not an instance kill. The kill could still take up to 3 days, assuming everyone voting for him hurts on their timer.

Explain how there are any rules that you aren't making up or changing as the game goes along.

[Kinetic]

Well ok, it's only stupid in principle, not in this particular circumstance. We need to stick with the rules, we can't break them willy-nilly. In this case, it is clear that there's a consensus, so it's nbd etc.

I may have overstated things a bit, but basically, the "rules" if there is any breakdown in them, is being caused exclusively by PeregrineV.

[Kinetic]

[Duplicate post]

[Tierce]

party mode is the best mode

You're a true gentleman and a true demon.

WHEN YOU HURT SOMEONE WITH NO VOTES! That is when it changed. You voided ALL the rules, and until you're dead the town cannot return to those rules. We still have a consensus on you and you will die. Period.

this is stupid.

I know what you mean--the point is that we cannot give him time at this point to use scum tools to damage the Town further. He's getting more Hurts because he went all out and broke the plan in a manner that only favors scum. There is no Town justification to do what PeregrineV did, not if his theory talk was honest. Something has got to give, and it is his alignment--so we can accept that we have a working consensus and kill him off.

[Kinetic]

WHEN YOU HURT SOMEONE WITH NO VOTES! That is when it changed. You voided ALL the rules, and until you're dead the town cannot return to those rules. We still have a consensus on you and you will die. Period.

I've votes you now to make it official.

Tierce hurt at 4 votes. Did she break the rules?

An this is a direct contratiction to this:

If someone takes off the pedal, and unvotes someone back down to 4, hurting stops. 5 votes is not an instance kill. The kill could still take up to 3 days, assuming everyone voting for him hurts on their timer.

Explain how there are any rules that you aren't making up or changing as the game goes along.

That was my position, and I agree with it. My point is that YOU were the one who argued against it, when it was convenient to you, but as SOON as you were caught scum you disregarded EVERYTHING you claimed to stand for. You hurt without 7 votes. Without even 5 votes. Without even 1 vote on your target. You violated the rules of our just society, you do not now get to claim the protections of them.

[PeregrineV]

Well ok, it's only stupid in principle, not in this particular circumstance. We need to stick with the rules, we can't break them willy-nilly. In this case, it is clear that there's a consensus, so it's nbd etc.

Give me a break. There isn't a single game groundrule we set that hasn't been broken so far. If everything is an exception, there are no rules.

And is consensus decided by votes or not?

[Kinetic]

You violated the rules of our just society, you do not now get to claim the protections of them.

I'm just going to quote this now to all of PV's posts.

[PeregrineV]

So less than 5 votes stops the hurting, because as of 472 I had 4 (4.5) votes, and a hurt from Tierce.

No.

You

changed the rules.

So you are attributing me with the power to make/change the rules? Because I said 7 votes.

You

defended "7 votes are needed before Hurting someone!" and then Hurt Kinetic just because.

Yes.
Was I hurt when I did not have 7 votes on me?
Yes.
Did I hurt after I was hurt without 7 votes on me?
Yes.

So, try again.

This means the rules are off. This means you die immediately, because you are scum, and we have nothing to gain from waiting and keeping you alive so you can Hurt more.

Wait, I never made a rule that all rules are off if one was broken. If you are arrtibuting me with the ability to make/change the rules, then why are YOU making/changing rules?

Try again.

[PeregrineV]

That was my position, and I agree with it. My point is that YOU were the one who argued against it, when it was convenient to you, but as SOON as you were caught scum you disregarded EVERYTHING you claimed to stand for. You hurt without 7 votes. Without even 5 votes. Without even 1 vote on your target. You violated the rules of our just society, you do not now get to claim the protections of them.

I know, you want me to shut up and die.

But, since I'm town and can hurt also, I don't have to sit here and take it.

So, welcome to hell.

[PeregrineV]

You violated the rules of our just society, you do not now get to claim the protections of them.

I'm just going to quote this now to all of PV's posts.

Sig it.

[PeregrineV]

Also, are we going to wait until 5, 6, or 7 votes until people start hurting me again, or are you just going to continue down the current path?

[Voidedmafia]

So less than 5 votes stops the hurting, because as of 472 I had 4 (4.5) votes, and a hurt from Tierce.

No.

You

changed the rules.

So you are attributing me with the power to make/change the rules? Because I said 7 votes.

You changed the established rules that were in place. The ones that required 5 votes.

You

defended "7 votes are needed before Hurting someone!" and then Hurt Kinetic just because.

Yes.
Was I hurt when I did not have 7 votes on me?
Yes.
Did I hurt after I was hurt without 7 votes on me?
Yes.

So, try again.

Well, by your system. Not by the one everyone else is following.

Also, you still hurt Kinetic just because.

This means the rules are off. This means you die immediately, because you are scum, and we have nothing to gain from waiting and keeping you alive so you can Hurt more.

Wait, I never made a rule that all rules are off if one was broken. If you are arrtibuting me with the ability to make/change the rules, then why are YOU making/changing rules?

If you break the rules, why should you still be held to them in the strictest sense? Perhaps we should wait for 5 votes, maybe. But you've broken most of everything else at the least, so why should you be beholden to them?

Can't wait for my hurt to return...

[Kinetic]

The rule is not "You must have as many votes on me as I decide before you may hurt me" the rule is 5 votes and hurting may commence. That is the rule the town has a consensus to agree upon. Even NOW you claim it to be 7. All of that shit of a "compromise" on 6 is just that, shit.

And I don't mind you posting at all. The more you post, the more information we will have to figure out who your scum buddies are later. So please scum, keep posting, keep digging that hole.

P-Edit: If you heal the hurt you caused during your next cycle, I will agree that we should re-instated the "wait until 5 votes to hurt YOU" is followed. But that rule IS in effect on everyone else right now. It is only forfeit on YOU because YOU disregarded the rules and hurt someone with

no votes on them at all

. Do you seriously not understand that?

[PeregrineV]

If you break the rules, why should you still be held to them in the strictest sense? Perhaps we should wait for 5 votes, maybe. But you've broken most of everything else at the least, so why should you be beholden to them?

It would be super groovy if you can go ahead and list all the established rules. Since you've stated they exist AND I broke them, I assume they will be fairly comprehensive.

And I'm currently understanding that the rules you are going to post no longer apply to me? Or do they?

[Tierce]

It would be super groovy if you can go ahead and list all the established rules. Since you've stated they exist AND I broke them, I assume they will be fairly comprehensive.

And I'm currently understanding that the rules you are going to post no longer apply to me? Or do they?

...yes. Book nao.

[Kinetic]

[Xalxe]

[PeregrineV]

The rule is not "You must have as many votes on me as I decide before you may hurt me" the rule is 5 votes and hurting may commence. That is the rule the town has a consensus to agree upon. Even NOW you claim it to be 7. All of that shit of a "compromise" on 6 is just that, shit.

Read Tierce 499. Are we going by what I think the rules should be, or what you think the rules should be? You can't have it both ways.

And I don't mind you posting at all. The more you post, the more information we will have to figure out who your scum buddies are later. So please scum, keep posting, keep digging that hole.

P-Edit: If you heal the hurt you caused during your next cycle, I will agree that we should re-instated the "wait until 5 votes to hurt YOU" is followed. But that rule IS in effect on everyone else right now. It is only forfeit on YOU because YOU disregarded the rules and hurt someone with

no votes on them at all

. Do you seriously not understand that?

Do you seriously not understand that I am town, and I do not have to and I will not sit here with my thumb up my ass while 4 players out of 12 try to kill me?

You want me to heal you? You, quadz, and Voided all reach cooldown before me.
If you want to stop the stupidity, then I'll consider a heal.
So it's not up to me, it's up to your posse, and they have not indicated they wish to back down.

So are we going to stop the fighting?

[Kinetic]

Do you seriously not understand that I am town, and I do not have to and I will not sit here with my thumb up my ass while 4 players out of 12 try to kill me?

You want me to heal you? You, quadz, and Voided all reach cooldown before me.
If you want to stop the stupidity, then I'll consider a heal.
So it's not up to me, it's up to your posse, and they have not indicated they wish to back down.

So are we going to stop the fighting?

I seriously know you are not town. I gave you that "option" because I know you won't follow it, instead you will hurt either me or someone else the moment you get the chance. I said what I will do if you heal instead of hurt, but don't for one second think I'm going to hesitate or take my foot off the pedal until you do. I'm the one who has stuck to my word this game and the one with the word that can be trusted, you aren't.

The LAST thing I'm going to do is say "Hey, let's see if PV, the person I think is scum and who is acting scummy, and breaking all the rules we agreed to will now start to suddenly act like town again if we give him another chance." That is just as likely to give you enough time for one more hurt before you die, and that is not something I'm willing to allow happen.

[Kinetic]

In post 512, Kinetic wrote:
The rule is not "You must have as many votes on me as I decide before you may hurt me" the rule is 5 votes and hurting may commence. That is the rule the town has a consensus to agree upon. Even NOW you claim it to be 7. All of that shit of a "compromise" on 6 is just that, shit.
Read Tierce 499. Are we going by what I think the rules should be, or what you think the rules should be? You can't have it both ways.

I'm saying, no matter how YOU define the rules, you broke them. If we are going by who is being hypocritical, it is you. At the very least we should be held up to the least of the rules, or at the VERY least the rules that we championed for. I never agreed or championed anything more than 5 votes. And I hurt when that was achieved. Hell, I didn't even do it right away, I waited a bit because I didn't want to jump the gun.

You, by every single measure, violated the rules. Whether they be by the agreed upon consensus (5 votes), what I felt was right (also 5 votes), or your own personal idea (7 votes).

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I'm sorry, but while I am all for killing PV and I think his response to being hurt is super scummy, I do not think he has "broken" any rules.

The second you hurt him Kinetic, even if it's within the rules, it opens him up to hurt you back if he thinks your scum. No player should ever have to sit there and watch as the town kills them without being able to present their own case.

No, I think this is part of the accountability clause. If you're going to be on the wagon to hurt someone you're fairgame for retaliation. Now, whether that retaliation is townie or scummy is entirely distinct and separate, but this should 100% be the rule. I'm calling it the 1v1 accountability clause and it WILL be implemented.

Now, as for Tierce's VC, the meta changes when I call out someone on putting up a VC being scummy. It becomes very WIFOM as to whether scum or town would try and start that back up. Null tell from this point forward, the VC scum tell may only be used once if the subject doesn't know it's there. Good enough Xalxe?

[Tierce]

"Hey, let's see if PV [...] will now start to suddenly act like town

again

"

Wait did I miss something?

When did PeregrineV

ever

act like Town in this game?

Quick recap: he has no reads. He is just lashing back at the people who voted/Hurt him. He has no coherent train of thought. He spent most of the time talking about theory, no reads at all, and the 'initial' reads he provides

four hundred and twenty

posts in are crap pulled from pseudo-meta from previous games and chiding people for doing what he's doing (i.e. no game content). There are no solid reads there. He blatantly tried to pass off lame sheeping of my reads as sarcasm, when it does not match his own #249. He is continually misrepping people. He broke

his own

rules by Hurting Kinetic, and is now trying to justify that action from the fact that he was Hurt at less than 7 written votes, when it was obvious there were 7 people supporting his death, and by acting like voting Kinetic afterwards makes it all right. He keeps bouncing back and forth among the same people, treating them like Town, then like scum, then like Town, with no train of thought that explains that change.

This is not Town. This dies Today and there will be PARTY in hell for it.


PEdit: The issue is that he is not presenting any logical case for Kinetic, in particular, being scum. Look at that wide-net reaction to the Hurts. It's ridiculously scummy.

[Kinetic]

The second you hurt him Kinetic, even if it's within the rules, it opens him up to hurt you back if he thinks your scum. No player should ever have to sit there and watch as the town kills them without being able to present their own case.

He has plenty of time to "present his own case", this will not kill him immediately. His response was "Fuck I'm going to die, I better throw out as many hurts as possible." He was so preoccupied with hurting as quick as possible that he

hurt before he even voted

. As far as I'm concerned, this sudden new rule addendum is just a justification to allow scum to hurt with impunity and get as much scum hurts out before they lose a partner.

FOS:LLD

[Kinetic]

"Hey, let's see if PV [...] will now start to suddenly act like town

again

"

Wait did I miss something?

When did PeregrineV

ever

act like Town in this game?

Quick recap: he has no reads. He is just lashing back at the people who voted/Hurt him. He has no coherent train of thought. He spent most of the time talking about theory, no reads at all, and the 'initial' reads he provides

four hundred and twenty

posts in are crap pulled from pseudo-meta from previous games and chiding people for doing what he's doing (i.e. no game content). There are no solid reads there. He blatantly tried to pass off lame sheeping of my reads as sarcasm, when it does not match his own #249. He is continually misrepping people. He broke

his own

rules by Hurting Kinetic, and is now trying to justify that action from the fact that he was Hurt at less than 7 written votes, when it was obvious there were 7 people supporting his death, and by acting like voting Kinetic afterwards makes it all right. He keeps bouncing back and forth among the same people, treating them like Town, then like scum, then like Town, with no train of thought that explains that change.

This is not Town. This dies Today and there will be PARTY in hell for it.


PEdit: The issue is that he is not presenting any logical case for Kinetic, in particular, being scum. Look at that wide-net reaction to the Hurts. It's ridiculously scummy.

Ha, good call. I felt like his heal on me before was pretty a pretty townie thing to do. Otherwise, I just use again too much perhaps.

[Xalxe]

Now, as for Tierce's VC, the meta changes when I call out someone on putting up a VC being scummy. It becomes very WIFOM as to whether scum or town would try and start that back up. Null tell from this point forward, the VC scum tell may only be used once if the subject doesn't know it's there. Good enough Xalxe?

Psssst Matt, this is how to answer questions.

Yes LLD, but it was PV who origin--yes, this is good LLD.