Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Legacy (Game Over)

[AngryPidgeon]

We have just over 2 days. If people are going soft on Elscouta I'm still down for a flash Mykonian/Zabriel wagon.

Spoiler: Why people should want to vote Zab

(Also, we couldn't get a consistent counterwagon

Gee, I wonder who is responsible for that?
Zabriel expressed interest in Acosmist but then said he didn't like his wagon once it got to 4 votes. He was also parroting KK/Mastin that the Tammy lynch was bad and implied that another one would be better. Why did he sit on the fence about Acosmist then and only wagon pidgey once Elscouta hopped over? I'm not saying he/Acosmist are a team as that would be a super awkward scum/scum interaction, but he can't keep his opinions straight. He called Acosmist scummy (and provided reasoning wherefore) but decided to ignore the Acosmist wagon and CW someone that he never mentioned before? Right. Thats a town mindset right there.

Also today I asked him about Acosmist and he replied:

I don't know about Aco. That claim is making things really awkward and clouding my thoughts. It might be worth it to remove the doubt and hope we hit scum, but I think that

any lynch on Aco with the information we have right now is a solid policy lynch

.

He is waffling because he knows where Im going with my question. Why not vote Acosmist yesterday if he is a solid PL and he wanted someone other than Tammy to be lynched? Nothing changed between know and then.

Mykonian wall to come again, but I have to run right now.
P-edit: Yates unvoted him. But this is the best post youve made all game.

[mastin2]

Im starting to wonder if Mastin is just saying bullshit intentionally because he knows its expected of him.

That

is

my scum meta, which I'll admit I'm largely playing to. Call it a bad habit, but I'm fighting a losing battle and everyone knows it. I'm a good 90% sure myk's town (see also, this, which I found in my research for a new MD post I'm working on at the moment), and about 85% sure El's town as well.

I can stop the lynch of one, but I'm not going to be able to dismantle both wagons. I've been trying. I've been failing. Simply put, too many people play to the surface and ignore intent. And those that

are

looking at intent are saying that they see the scum picture. If none were present, it'd make my job easier, but quite frankly, it's there. It's not very strong, mind you. The picture, while possible to connect, makes less sense than the town-picture I see painted before me.

But I'm having a hard time explaining

why

it's a stronger town picture. Hence, why I'm losing.

So yes, I'm fully playing to my scum meta...of taking a stance, trying to push it, but ultimately not pushing it hard enough to stop the lynch, so that when I'm proven right, I have more credibility on future days. (The part about not pushing it hard enough to stop the lynch is unintentional in this case, simply because I'm trying, yet running out of steam. In a way, I've kinda already given up on winning the fight. I know, that's bad, but you have no idea how frustrating it is, to know you're right but be unable to prove it. Just like 1377.)
Myk will flip town, El will flip town. And then people will begin to push my lynch, yet I will flip town, too.

I've been in enough games to have a dang-good idea of how things play out. I'm doing everything I can to prevent it, but deep down, I've told myself already that I've lost, and when I'm fighting my own subconscious as well as half the town, it's incredibly difficult.

So when you said “I will not vote Tammy and would rather I get lynched than her” are you indicating you aren’t Town or are just absolutely terrible?

Note how I said "towns". Not "townies". Towns, as a whole, want a lynch, even if it's not their preferred lynch and even if they think the person will flip town.
Townies, as players, are a little bit more, shall we say, wild. As members of the town, they frequently do the above, but if they think it is

just. that. stupid.

to lynch the strongest role in the game...
And you kinda proved my point, anyway. Yes, I was fully willing to get lynched day two, if it meant Tammy living. Lynched. Not just wagoned. Actually lynched, so that Tammy would have at least one more day to shoot, and/or the scum killing her and giving Benmage at least one more day to get results.

Heck, I'm fully willing to get lynched today to help prove my stances do not come from scum and that the town should sheep me in regards to MoI/Aco/Kise all being scum, and that everyone off the Tammy wagon is town. I've made my reads clear enough. (Though my BC/WC read might be changing thanks to Thor, the others still hold--snifit/Cheery on the wrong side of null, pidgey at null leaning town, AP at null leaning town.)

It's not going to happen, since enough players are smart enough to realize that I'm town, but not smart enough to realize that as town, I'm a competent scumhunter from mid-d2 onward.
(A fact that YOU, AP, should know better than anyone else--again, 1377 shows it perfectly. First half of d2 and all play before that, junk play with junk reads. Second half of d2 and onwards, spot-on play and spot-on reads, as I fought as hard as I could to stop the RM mislynch, while correctly pushing the entire scumteam of fitz/Kimor/UN.
This game, much the same. First half of d2, mostly-junk-reads, mostly-junk-play. Second half of d2, I clicked a switch, and suddenly, BAM! Nearly-perfect reads and nearly-perfect play. Fighting as hard as I could to stop the Tammy mislynch [AND I WILL CONTINUE CALLING IT SUCH, THANKYOUVERYMUCH], and now fighting as much as I can to stop the myk/El lynches.)

LINK TO HER POST LYNCH POSTS THAT OOZED TOWN!

Tammy's line of "I am always town" speaks for itself. She was playing as town, she was scumhunting like she would as town. Rather than show SK-like attributes of buddying to those defending her (such as me), she was scumhunting on them and showing caution, just as a town player being defended by others would. (Well, should. Da burds are completely ignoring MoI's defense of them. ) Most of all, she shot scum (the ultimate proof of her scumhunting) day one, and beyond that, chose not to shoot Benmage.

You can argue the last one as being survivalistic, but the fact of the matter is, she wasn't going to win the game. She could have chosen to screw the town over and shoot Benmage, hoping to write his result off as a gambit and/or as a framer and/or as Benmage's results being insane. Had she done so, in fact, it probably would have increased (rather than decreased) her chances of survival, as the town-dayvig mindset of cop-with-a-guilty-on-you is to shoot the claimed cop.

She didn't. She let him live, sealing her fate as being the lynch. You can't get much more town than that. For all intensive purposes, she was a dayvig. She shot like a dayvig, she scumhunted like a dayvig, she chose to let the town win and wished us luck after her lynch. She wasn't putting up appearances, either. She was lynched, it was clear she was lynched, there was no ambiguity to be had. So there was nothing to be gained in lying after her death, 'cause she's independently-aligned, not scum-aligned.

I'm calling it a mislynch for dang-good reason.

---

By the way, both AP and MoI have said my post where I say I haven't forgotten about the Melmond mislynch is an appeal to fear.
I was not aware that

giving reads

was an appeal to fear.

Also, it's quite ironic that they accuse me of appealing to fear, when they were the ones appealing to fear yesterday.
"Tammy will shoot Benmage!" No, she wouldn't.
"Tammy is BP!" No, she wasn't.
"Tammy is a member of a scum faction!"
No, she wasn't.

And the reasons why were clearly explained yesterday as well, yet they were never countered, with those lines repeated over and over again despite the fact that each had been methodically disproven. And all but the first are also evident in her flip, as she didn't flip member of a scum faction, and she didn't flip BP.

[Thor665]

Even with Yates' unvote he is not really in hammer range.
That said, he's in hammer range.

You probably shouldn't comment on quality of posts.

[Elscouta]

Aren't I at L-3?

[Thor665]

You are.
Claim.

[Elscouta]

uh. no.

[Thor665]

Here, I'll even spell it out for you.

You're going to be the lynch today unless something *drastic* happens in the next 48 hours.

Hint: Nothing drastic is going to happen.

Additional Hint: I'd rather have your role discussion with 48 hours to have discussion and vote moves rather than 4 hours to have discussion and vote moves.

So - claim now.

[mastin2]

El, you're town.
I get it.

I know you are.

I'm not going to lynch you.

But, uh, can't say the same for the rest of these guys.

So considering deadline's proximity, claiming should be done now rather than later.

[Thor665]

Let's see, Yates is derp and will move back to voting you for "deadline, lulz"
I will vote you straight up from boredom.
KK would vote you to avoid no lynch.
Pere would stand a decent chance of sheeping me if I yelled about it.
Jason would vote you to avoid a no lynch.

So...yeah, you're already past L-1.
Claim.

[Thor665]

So considering deadline's proximity, claiming should be done now rather than later.

Mastin groks basic pro-town play.
Huzzah.

El - claim.

[Elscouta]

I have taken a few minutes to consider the various options and outcomes, and I can safely say this:

You won't get a claim by me.

[Thor665]

Okay, you're a good lynch then for being anti-town and silly and also wanting time to work on your fake claim.

Vote: Elscouta

@Pere
@Yates

LET'S SPEED LYNCH HIM FOR LULZ!
He already said he wouldn't claim, so no point in waiting, he's at L-2, you guys can make this happen!

[Elscouta]

Okay, you're a good lynch then for being anti-town and silly and also wanting time to work on your fake claim.

Am i silly town or scum wanting to work on his fake claim?

[Kublai Khan]

btw its encouraged SK tammy to shoot BENMAGE THE COP lol im bad at writing

That's kinda the big one, Thor665. Not once, not twice, not three times, but 5 different posts after Benmage claimed cop with a guilty on Tammy and Tammy claimed dayvig.

What was his stated justification for that?
Because that almost seems too blatant to possibly come from scum to my mind.

Pretty much what you just said:

It's not making sense. The last thing I would do as scum would be to tell the SK to kill the cop for me.

But I'm not a fan of the WIFOM-y "too scummy to be scum" defense. I've played badly and escaped nooses thanks to town thinking that.

Meaning that if tammy was town, she should have shot the fakeclaiming cop. However, if she was scum, benmage flipping would confirm her as scum. If she were scum, she couldn't kill benmage, if she was town she had to.

If you had only suggested it once or twice, then I'd be more willing to accept this explanation. Five times is pressuring.

@KK

– How’s that Acosmist reading coming? Oh, did you forget you said you would do that and instead just wanted to come and active lurk?

Okay, it's been less than 24 hours since you linked and, with the deadline looming, an Acosmist lynch is pretty unlikely. But since you seem to be in a rush to know RIGHT NOW what I think:
I've skimmed his ISOs and I see where you are coming from. As scum he had a more aggressive verbose style and as town he had a more defensive style. However it's still a very small sample size of ONE game each. And you have the burden of explaning why you think it's likely that scum-Acosmist isn't capable of replicating his town-meta.

@Elscouta

- Not the time for games. Deadline is looming. Claim. If I don't see a claim in the next hour, I'm voting you.

[Thor665]

Okay, you're a good lynch then for being anti-town and silly and also wanting time to work on your fake claim.

Am i silly town or scum wanting to work on his fake claim?

Well, since I didn't call you silly

town

I'll go ahead and say 'scum'.

@Kublai - one hour deadline for claim? Egads - just vote now and put him to L-1, it will get better results.

[Thor665]

@El

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E9wUJBfvTL4

[pappums rat]

Votecount 3.9

"It was never going to work out for me. It even rained the day I was born." -Raiden
"You've got it all wrong. You were the lightning in that rain. You can still shine through the darkness." -Solid Snake, Metal Gear Solid 4

Elscouta - 6 (Cheery Dog, Acosmist, AngryPidgeon, MagnaofIllusion, Kise, Thor665)
AngryPidgeon - 3 (mykonian, Elscouta, jasonT1981)
MagnaofIllusion - 2 (mastin2, Nero Cain)
Acosmist - 1 (Kublai Khan)
Thor665 - 1 (PeregrineV)
mykonian - 1 (pidgey)

Not voting - zabriel, Yates

Nero Cain, mastin2, PeregrineV, and zabriel are V/LA.

With 16 alive it takes 9 to lynch.

The deadline for Day 3 is 9 PM EST on November 30, 2012.

[Thor665]

"It was never going to work out for me. It even rained the day I was born." -Raiden
"You've got it all wrong. You were the lightning in that rain. You can still shine through the darkness." -Solid Snake, Metal Gear Solid 4

This reminds me why Raiden sucks.

[pidgey]

People: MYK HAS FKN SKATED THE WHOLE DAY

Remember how cocky he was D2, calling everyone ignorant or scummy around? Sitting smirkly on the sidelines waiting for tammy to shoot the cop (notice he never gave a target of choice himself, he was just there "Im waiting for you to shoot")

And today since cases and opinions have began piling up on him, he has gone to the shadows, only appearing here and there to throw a jab around.

Is no one baffled by how his votes suddenly stopped and changed? After he did.... what? What was his defense?

Yeez

Although I dont find elscouta to be super TOWN, lately I don't really feel him to be scum either, dont like this elscouta lynch, would prefer even zabriel over this.

[jasonT1981]

Yes, I would vote to avoid a no lynch.

I believe there are outstanding questions to me, sorry spent the last 2 days setting up my own modded game, sorry. Will get to them soon.

[pidgey]

Also yeah elscouta, claim now

[Acosmist]

I'd lynch zabriel also.

[mykonian]

People: MYK HAS FKN SKATED THE WHOLE DAY

Remember how cocky he was D2, calling everyone ignorant or scummy around? Sitting smirkly on the sidelines waiting for tammy to shoot the cop (

notice he never gave a target of choice himself, he was just there "Im waiting for you to shoot"

)

And today since cases and opinions have began piling up on him, he has gone to the shadows, only appearing here and there to throw a jab around.

Is no one baffled by how his votes suddenly stopped and changed? After he did.... what? What was his defense?

Yeez

Although I dont find elscouta to be super TOWN, lately I don't really feel him to be scum either, dont like this elscouta lynch, would prefer even zabriel over this.

Bolded is bull. I gave her a list of about 6 people to shoot from. I was one of the first to do it.

And I'm more the sick of you. This is the newest piece of bullshit that you could easily have found was wrong. It's there, in a post, clearly calling names who she should shoot. And this isn't the first example. "Myko called me town then suddenly voted me". Clear bullshit as well. If you are going to fling shit and hope it sticks, don't make it this obvious.

I don't care about a No lynch if you guys want to lynch anyone but pidgey.

vote pidgey

. See you at the 30th.

[Kublai Khan]

Vote: Elscouta

[pidgey]

unvote

Well, this one is easy to figure out. Tammy gets shot in the face within a day: she wasn't the dayvig. Someone else gets shot: she is!

I think benmage might want to fullclaim before he's shot (so if you are town tammy, please don't act too quickly)

I can bold who I want to vig in thread or email it and it will happen.

Well I guess it is multiball, or I caught the SK... either way Tammy hangs.

Fire away tammy. If you are town you can prove it now. He isn't a gunsmith or something which could explain a possible false guilty.

If you are fakeclaiming... well, I guess benmage doesn't die very quickly then

I love how in 5 minutes we'll have certain scum.

nero, if tammy is town, that's a flat out fakeclaim from ben, and he isn't taking it back in any form. She should shoot that if she's town.

Because I actually care about who gets shot. I'm not interested in shooting town. I'm not lying.

Is there a way for a cop to get a guilty on you?

If not, shoot benmage. If there is, he might be town, and you can shoot whoever you please. So unless you want to claim miller now, you should shoot benmage or get shot

Because I actually care about who gets shot. I'm not interested in shooting town. I'm not lying.

Is there a way for a cop to get a guilty on you?

If not, shoot benmage. If there is, he might be town, and you can shoot whoever you please. So unless you want to claim miller now, you should shoot benmage or get shot

How are you so bad?

Technically there's like a 0.000000000001% chance a framer landed correctly. But nevertheless optimal strategy is to have her shoot, and obviously not the unCC'd cop who claimed D2 with little to no threat on himself.

Who happens to have a guilty on her. That's kind of the crux.

And I don't know. I'm a bad boy I guess. I'm enjoying this.

tammy, more time doesn't help you! I can wait all night, but that doesn't mean I want to! Shoot to kill or burst out in tears and confess you are going to get shot pretty soon

Either that means you didn't get what I said, or you didn't want to listen to me. Lets be optimistic.

I can't read snifit. I'll be happy if he's gone, even though he's a null read. The scumlist I posted somewhere is all better then a snifit kill, but everything else kinda drops below the bottom line of what's an acceptable kill for me.

I just went and ISOed you. The only one you said you'd "take as a good vig shot" was snifit.

How is that any good?

And AFTER she shot, you voted her immediatly the next day.

Dude i dont care if you are pissed because I got you for the right or wrong reasons, this isnt the first time I've countered your

"Oh no pidgey is a lier!!! i swear even if my ISO says otherwise!"

I already did it twice and you never have anything to say when i provide evidence.

Cant get more obvious