Mini 343: Donnie Darko 0:0:0:0 Game Over

[MeMe]

MeMe:

<snip>*note in red I really want answered before nightfall. It's lookin' like a slip.

You’re picking a really bad time to bluff. Had I more time, I’d punish you for it.

I don't even understand this. I asked you several questions that arose out of a post

you

made -- I didn't pick the time, nor do I get how you could possibly term it a "bluff."

Let me put it clearly: you say "the other" mafia. Who are you assuming is the first? And why are you assuming there are only two mafia anyway? And why the hell didn't you answer the other (apparently non-bluff, according to your ridiculous retort) questions rather than throwing out a weird accusation? Here's my guess...because it was

right before

deadline and you thought that nonny'd be closing the thread without me having a chance to respond!

So, EmpTyger -- I've got a challenge for you: go

ahead

and "punish" me for it (oh the hubris!).

Kill me tonight

.

Town: if I'm not dead tomorrow, ask yourselves why

not

.

[EmpTyger]

MeMe:
Hello Mistress Godfather.

You were bluffing because there would be no consequence in any way if I didn’t answer before nightfall. But now, in case the town has not yet figured it out:

-I’m not going to be doctor protected because the idea was that if I were lying, the real vigilante would kill me overnight. That clearly won’t happen if I’m doctor protected.

-I’m going to vigkill because there are enough good targets. The same reason why I must lynch. You wouldn’t advocate a nolynch in this situation. The same logic holds for consensual vigkilling.

-Total and utter misquote. I did *not* say “determining the other mafia”. What I said (in [415]) was “determining other mafia”. And I have better things to do than direct the cop for you.

-I’m not the cop. You know I’m not the cop. But as for likely investigations:

Town: if MeMe’s not dead tomorrow, ask yourselves why not.

(ie: Cop: do not waste your investigation on her; if she lives, she is the godfather.)

[Sentinel99]

So, I'm dead, right?

[Scalebane]

Chess:

I don't get the part where you don't wanna lynch anix.

[MeMe]

You were bluffing because there would be no consequence in any way if I didn’t answer before nightfall. But now, in case the town has not yet figured it out:

I wasn't bluffing. And to say that there would be "no consequence" if you didn't answer is unbelievably obtuse. There's more game -- there'd certainly be consequence for me

tomorrow

if you truly thought I was bluffing. The fact that you think you'll either be cleared or killed (now I'm thinking doubtful) tonight shows that you thought you could hold off until then to accuse me. I don't think anyone should consider you cleared tomorrow if you simply live. There's absolutely no guarantee of a vigilante in every mini game.

Total and utter misquote. I did *not* say “determining the other mafia”. What I said (in [415]) was “determining other mafia”. And I have better things to do than direct the cop for you.

You're absolutely right. Misread on my part and, for that, I apologize. Please admit, though, that seeing it as I did (that you said "

the

other") -- my questions were valid.

Would you agree that, if I were not scum with Chess, there was no reason for me to save him? Would you further agree, then, that Chess makes more sense to vig than AniX tonight to "verify" alignment and the cop can check AniX?

EmpTyger -- I'm really distrustful of you right now, as it should be apparent. I don't like when someone attempts to railroad me or says I'm trying to "bluff" without explaining why. Your point about me misquoting you is certainly fair -- but your implication that it was nefarious in intent is not.

-I’m going to vigkill because there are enough good targets. The same reason why I must lynch. You wouldn’t advocate a nolynch in this situation. The same logic holds for consensual vigkilling.

This is idiotic. If there were

one

good target, this would make sense -- but with so many, it's as good as a shot in the dark. If Sentinel's town, you could bring us to lynch or lose unnecessarily (if you're truly a vig and mafia is successful tonight, we'll be down to seven tomorrow, three of whom could be scum) -- because you seem unable to see/consider this, I'm starting to think you're not too worried about the town.

And I have better things to do than direct the cop for you.

Really?

I feel knowing Chess’s alignment would be more useful in determining other mafia, however, but since a cop is still likely outstanding, there’s no reason for me to resort to such a drastic measure to test alignment.

Did you not direct the cop to investigate Chess here? 'Cause that's certainly what it looks like.

-I’m not the cop. You know I’m not the cop. But as for likely investigations:
Town: if MeMe’s not dead tomorrow, ask yourselves why not.
(ie: Cop: do not waste your investigation on her; if she lives, she is the godfather.)

You know, the town is not so stupid not to take into consideration the fact that if I'm not dead tomorrow, it's possible it's because no one tried to kill me.

Here's my claim, though: either I'm dead tonight and it doesn't matter or I'm alive and EmpTyger's scum. If, by some chance, I'm alive -- I don't want anyone pretending I took the time to create a claim overnight. I'm Mrs. Rose Darko, vanilla townie (oh! see why Chess's claim is extra believable to me?).

[MeMe]

So, I'm dead, right?

Yes -- even though nonny hasn't closed the thread, deadline hit and you're dead.

[MeMe]

Oh, and doc, please don't protect me. I want it clear that if I'm alive tomorrow it's because either:

1) I'm unnightkillable
2) EmpTyger lied

[nonny]

Deadline is more than reached. I will put more up on the lynch later in the day.

[nonny]

And Now for the news:

Jim Cunninham(sentinel99) a local celebrity was found dead in his home today. It's quite a loss to the town to have the preacher of fear over love to die. He was very involved in the town, talking at the local school and hosting thier talent show.......THIS JUST IN: While removing Mr. Cunningham from his home and search for the cause of death, the police uncovered a secret stash of illegal underage porn. What a horrible horrible discovery.

Sentinel 99 (jim cunningham, mafia) Lynched Day two.

Night!!! Get those choices in!

[nonny]

Here is the morning news:

In a strange case of events earlier this evening a Mother and Son were found dead. The strange part is the son was found dead in the mountians, while the mother was found on the side of the road on an abondaned street. Still no clue as to what either victim were doing during the time of death.

Mrs. Darko(MeMe, townie) and Donnie Darko(EmpTyger, Vig) have passed away, let us remark upon this with a moment of silence.

With 7 alive it's 4 to lynch!

[Ixnayonthehombre]

Donnie Darko(EmpTyger, Vig)

I seriously don't know why he couldn't have told us this.
Anyway, my guess is that Emp tried to vig MeMe, while he himself got nightkilled by Mafia. Sound about right?

[Chess83]

I disagree Hombre, I think Emp may have not given this information because he figured someone would have suggested Donnie could be Mafia. Also, it seems to me that either we do not have a doc or the doc didn't believe Emp's claim.

It would make sense that Emp vig kill MeMe, if nothing else to protect himself. I want to say that we should still look at STD and Scalebane, but I want to reread the past day before I say anything. I should be able to get a post up later today about whom I think we should go for.

[MeMe]

grr.

[Save The Dragons]

First of all, did anyone besides me already figure out Emp was Donnie Darko? Although this might be more post-game discussion.

Second of all, I'm a tracker.

I tracked MeMe N1.
I tracked Scalebane last night.

I got something strange, and I'm wondering if Scalebane would like to tell me what he did last night.

[Save The Dragons]

I'm Churita Chen, btw.

[Ixnayonthehombre]

disagree Hombre, I think Emp may have not given this information because he figured someone would have suggested Donnie could be Mafia.

I guess I could see that.

Second of all, I'm a tracker.

I'm sorry, but could you please expand on your role? What does tracking do? Sorry...newnishness again.

[EmpTyger]

[bah]I hope that when the world comes to an end, I can breathe a sigh of relief, because there will be so much to look forward to.[/bah]

[Chess83]

I was kinda wondering the same thing hombre, so I looked it up.

A Tracker is a fairly common information role. They can target a person at night and learn who, if anybody, that person targetted the same night. In this regard it is strictly better than a Watcher, who only learns whether or not that person targetted anyone, but not who they targetted.

the above can be viewed here
http://www.mafiascum.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl/Tracker

I am going to wait untill Scale has a chance to reply and probably untill they both begin a discussion concerning this new info before I comment on it.

[Chess83]

This came to me while I was rereading...

Hello Mistress Godfather.

Her accusation is void as she and Emp are dead. My thought is this. Could Jack be a godfather? This is not to detract from the topic at hand (STD's question about Scale's night time activity) but is just me sharing some insight I saw.

[Scalebane]

I'm also kind of wondering what "strange" information came from tracking me last night as I don't really think that I "target" anyone really. If you got the result that I did something interesting to/with/involving empTyger, then that makes a good bit of sense to me. And I think it'll all become clear when I claim (which will probably happen before too long)

[Save The Dragons]

I think that might be in order.

Vote: Scalebane

[Chess83]

Okay... I think I can post this now. Seeminly STD really has no basis for this and upon some digging I think STD is scum. So,

VOTE STD

Below is a copy/paste of a word document I made on my reread of Day 2, this focuses in on STD's role claim of tracker and the fact that he claimed to have tracked MeMe on N1... Enjoy.

Okay…
First STD’s unprovoked claim was weird. It something about it didn’t jive with me so I set out to see if his “following” MeMe was evident in D2. This of course would prove his role because he would have seen that MeMe took no actions during the night as she was townie.

This is the first thing

Posted: Wed Aug 23, 2006 7:22 pm Post subject: 18
Things I'd like to point out:

Another interpretation that just came to me: CK and Scalebane know each other in real life, though 1)

I have no idea if nonny's aware of that and 2) outside-of-game information probably wouldn't be used as

flavor text.

Meme tries to link Scalebane and CK's

Later as clarification he writes,

My biggest beef was that you actually brought the two names together, as if planting a seed in our minds. Subtle tactics.

I will not quote some of these posts as they are very large rather I will highlight parts that should be noted more so than other parts of the posts…
Posted: Mon Aug 28, 2006 12:35 am Post subject: 20
STD writes,

If you're town, of course not. But I'm not accusing you of being town, so suggesting I would consider you to sit on the information seems silly. If you're scum, of course not; I've already explained why.

Posted: Mon Aug 28, 2006 10:17 pm Post subject: 21

I'm trying to figure out where you're at. You shared information benevolently or malevolently, and I'm not going to know until this game is over. But I can pick at it.

right after that

If she's scum, she's sharing the information with bad intentions. That's what I'm suggesting. Do I think she's scum? Maybe. Maybe not. I need more information, which is why I'm bringing this up. But I've said all of this already.

In Posted: Sat Sep 02, 2006 3:54 pm Post subject: 28 STD makes a list of MeMe’s posts, seemingly to cast some suspicion on her.

Posted: Sat Sep 23, 2006 12:29 pm Post subject: 39 STD role claims and says he followed MeMe N1 and Scalebane N2, he says something about his information being “strange” and proceeds to ask Scalebane to confess what he did last night.

My points are simple, these are hypothetical.
1) STD saw my continued suspicion on him and Scalebane. Decided to try to point me in the direction of Scalebane like Emp did yesterday
2) Basically alludes to him knowing MeMe was innocent (by saying he followed her)
3) Name claims in addition to his role claim, possibly to attempt to add some element of truth to his role claim. This name, by the way, represents a very minor character in the movie. Churita Chen is not a major character and most likely would not be a candidate for a role in this game, IMO.

I would like STD to strighten this up. I also would like to ask the town's opinion of how likely Churita Chen would be a character in this game. If Churita is not a likly canidate for this game then it makes the name a semi-safe claim for STD.

[Sotty7]

STD: Where did you track Scale too?

Scale: I don't like how you keep dropping in your role and how you are so confidant that your claim will save you. That said, while re-reading the game during the night, I came across a piece of information that kinda points towards you being pro town (IMO anyway).

During the twilight, I would like to point something out to Ixnayonthehombre: I'm the one who said that chamber always plays like that in past games. Also, I wasn't so much defending chamber, as much as saying that I didn't think there was justification for a lynch of chamber.

Sentinel: I'm not trying to squabble, but what you just posted is just plain factually wrong.

Scumminess isn't definite. What some call scummy others barely notice. It really helps to play or read several games in which others are involved to get a good read on them. Especially if its an old game, and you can tell definately the player's alignment. It helps you to pick up on their individual habits.

The thing is, looking at past games that chamber has played (and there aren't many where he's scum) this doesn't look like how he plays a townie. If you go back and look at some of the other minis he's played (mini 288 and 262) where Chamber is a townie, he's not *nearly* this aggressive. Although, there aren't any examples of him getting into such a "clash of ideas" before, so I guess that might swing things a bit on why he seems to be playing pretty differently than in any of the games I went back and read.

You've really contributed relatively little thus far into the game.

This was the discussion that drew Meme in the direction of Sentinel99 in the first place and I find it very hard to believe that Scale would show up his scum buddy in such away so early in the game. I think you will end up having to claim your role and results eventually, but I would like for you to wait until STD reveals his whole result on you.

Okay... I think I can post this now. Seeminly STD really has no basis for this and upon some digging I think STD is scum. So,

VOTE STD

Below is a copy/paste of a word document I made on my reread of Day 2, this focuses in on STD's role claim of tracker and the fact that he claimed to have tracked MeMe on N1... Enjoy.

I wouldn't say that he has no basis, I mean he did claim to be a tracker and I see no reason to either trust his word or just assume that he is lying. I agree that the fact he claimed to have tracked Meme while grilling her pretty heavily towards the end of day one is pause for thought, but I can think of a situation where he would do such a thing and still be telling the truth about his role. I'm on the fence at the moment with his claim, but I did find STD to be more leaning on the side of a townie as I read though the game, once he started to post regularly anyway.

Churita Chen makes sense as a stalker/tracker too me, but I do agree that she seems a relatively minor role.

Ixnay has piqued my interested with the way he defended his initial vote on Sentinel99 to AniX by saying that he thought he was mafia and it wasn't just because of the deadline that he was voting him. Then he unvotes because Sentinel99 returns from his lurk fest. Surly sending out two contradicting messages there.

I might as well add a list of people I think are scummiset.
1. Sentinel99
2. STD
3. AniX
4. Scalebane
5. EmpTyger
6. MeMe
7. Olio
8. Sotty7
9. Chess83
If the deadline is not lifted, then we need to start discussing who we are going to lynch and who we are going to nightkill. I'd be happy lynching Sentinel99, and having EmpTyger nightkill AniX. Getting rid of the two most inactive players would benefit us, even if they were town. But with the way Sentinel has been acting, I think he's Mafia.
In case the deadline is not lifted,

Vote:Sentinel99

AniX, you seem to completely ignore the fact that I think he is Mafia. And you did seem to me pretty scummy also. But that was only because you openly lurked, and were opposed to participating. That being said, it's good that you're participating now.

<snip>based on the fact that Ixnay's "lynching the lurkers is good for the town, even if they themselves are town" is the scummiest(or most naive) theory I've heard all game

Keep in mind that at this point, Sentinel hadn't posted in what was it, two weeks, three? MeMe probably knows. He wasn't really even playing in this game. He had already been prodded several times, and to no avail. We could've just replaced him, but I thought if it hadn't happened by then, it wasn't going to. And

Unvote:Sentinel99

'cuz he's back.

What difference did it make that he was back if you thought he was mafia? Maybe because once your partner was back you wanted to give him a chance to defend himself? Of course you revote him later, once it was pretty clear that he had painted himself into a corner (his abrupt switch to Emp as a target.)

Sorry it's been so long. I just all of a sudden got really busy and forgot, I guess.

@Ixnay

Why do you vote Sentinel, call him mafia, mention little reason when you vote, state he's lurking later, and then unvote him because of it?

I thought him to be Mafia because of his nearly month-long lurking. The only reason I unvoted him is because it looked like no one else was going for a lynch on Sentinel. Now that people might be interested in lynching Sentinel with the deadline, I'll gladly revote. It just seemed like my vote wasn't helping us along very much. I still think him suspicious because of that long strain of lurking.

Vote:Sentinel99

If you think someone is mafia you push the case and try and try to get everybody to see just what you're seeing. You did nothing of the sort. My line of thinking is that you saw an opportunity to make yourself seem more innocent by jumping on your teammate. Only you didn't really follow though with your plan well enough. You back out to give him a chance to save himself but when he only made it worse you were more than happy to jump back on the bus.

Vote: Ixnayonthehombre

[Save The Dragons]

Okay... I think I can post this now. Seeminly STD really has no basis for this and upon some digging I think STD is scum.

No real basis? My result is my basis. I'm not trying to get him lynched...yet.

Okay…
First STD’s unprovoked claim was weird. It something about it didn’t jive with me so I set out to see if his “following” MeMe was evident in D2. This of course would prove his role because he would have seen that MeMe took no actions during the night as she was townie.

I cannot explain this without revealing my result on Scalebane, which I will not do until he claims or the town bugs me enough.

All will be revealed my friend...

3) Name claims in addition to his role claim, possibly to attempt to add some element of truth to his role claim. This name, by the way, represents a very minor character in the movie. Churita Chen is not a major character and most likely would not be a candidate for a role in this game, IMO.

I can't defend myself against this, because if I did, I'd be scum defending my choice of a role. I recieved this role from nonny, it was her decision. Believe me or not.

If Churita is not a likly canidate for this game then it makes the name a semi-safe claim for STD.

MeMe died to prove your innocence (you ought to thank her) so I'm not concerned about you. But hypothetically if a mod picked 12 people from donnie darko, how likely do you think Elizabeth Darko would be a role?

Sotty: I think Ixnay is probably scum, but I can't vote that yet until the Scalebane issue is cleared up.

Let me explain why I'm not giving my tracking result quite yet.

I'm pretty sure that scalebane could talk his way out of pretty much whatever I'm going to throw at him. If I catch him in a lie, or if I find his action matches his claim, then that lowers the chance of us mislynching.

I'd rather not fully claim, seeing as I have hinted at my result, while Scalebane has barely breadcrumbed his role.

[Save The Dragons]

STD: Where did you track Scale too?

Cellar door.

just kidding.