Jack of All Trades Mafia -- OVER!

[Yaw]

Vote Count:

mathcam (2): Coron, MrBuddyLee
Coron (1): TheCesspit
TheCesspit (1): Mastermind of Sin
MrBuddyLee (1): Fuldu
Fuldu (1): ibaesha
ibaesha (1): Uraj45
LoudmouthLee (1): Yosarian2

Not Voting: armlx, Harry_Potter, LoudmouthLee, mystery meat of doom, PookyTheMagicalBear, spectrumvoid, mathcam

8 to lynch

[armlx]

Vote Ibaesha

I'm taking MBL's side here, especially given some info I gained from the role swapping combined with basic game logic.

[ibaesha]

So you're taking the side of someone who won't put their vote where their mouth is. Good job. Also, I don't see how what you know of me would make you suspicious of me and not mathcam.

[Coron]

Heh, I'm gone for 2 days and you guys decide to explode.

I think it's funny that people accused me of "just picking people on the BJ wagon" but now 2 of the 3 people I accused are under serious suspicion.

I guess I'm just awesome like that.

unvote vote: Ibby

The explosion a page or however much back with much cursing had the opposite reaction from me as from mathcam. To me it looked like frustrated scum.

[ibaesha]

I can't wait until I can prove Coron wrong about me yet again. And here I used to believe he could read me fairly well.

Dude, you totally fail.

[mathcam]

So you're taking the side of someone who won't put their vote where their mouth is. Good job. Also, I don't see how what you know of me would make you suspicious of me and not mathcam.

I think this is a good point.

FOS: Armlx

for that. It sounds an awful lot like "Ooh, I can get on this bandwagon without much fuss if I just pretend like I've put some serious thought in to the matter."

I don't think it's too much to ask that you share your insight here, armlx.

Cam

[Coron]

I can't wait until I can prove Coron wrong about me yet again. And here I used to believe he could read me fairly well.

Dude, you totally fail.

Eh, even if I'm getting worse on that it's one of those "either you are getting more consistant or I'm getting worse" things.

I could still believe that ibby is town, but for now I feel that ibby is the best vote.

[ibaesha]

Fair enough.

[Yosarian2]

I know he's wrong about some of his suspicions; he's certanly wrong about me

You know, eh? Which other suspicions do you KNOW I'm wrong about, and why? I was under the assumption that you're in a powerless office.

I suppose it would have been more precise to say "I know that not all of his suspicious are correct because he's wrong about me". Still, you knew what I meant, didn't you? It should have been clear the intent of that post was to defend you, to say that even though not all of your suspicions are correct I think your actions today have been generally pro-town.

[MrBuddyLee]

I took the words literally. You're generally a person who chooses the words he means to choose. Therefore I suspect you know I'm wrong about more than one of my accusations.

Your sentence was two parts. The second part said I'm wrong about you. The first part wouldn't say the same exact thing as the second, so it's implying that you know I'm wrong about other people's alignments.

It may be nitpicking, but it feels like you slipped there. I might not be so paranoid if it wasn't for bluemonick's and Max's odd behavior towards you.

[armlx]

Blah, whatever, here's my insight.

Proposition 1: I got role swapped with Mathcam last night, who was previously swapped with Ibaesha, right?

Conclusion: I have Ibaesha's original role.

Proposition 2: If there is a mafia or cult, then alignment swaps would allow the newly town player to out all their old scum partners.

Conclusion 2: Alignments don't swap with role swaps.

Proposition 3: I am now a townie.

Conclusion 3: Ibaesha started with no abilities.

That leaves us with

A. Ibaesha was a townie.
B. Ibaesha was a killer without an ability.

I won't reveal what Mathcam is right now for obvious reasons.

So, the way I see it, there's prolly at most 1/5 people townies, so 5. And a killing group prolly has 2 members w/o abilities if they have 5 members (standard designer logic), and any cult leader or SK would have limited abilities (prolly 1 of 2).

So, the way I see it, its about a 1/4 chance Ibaesha is scum (down due to mod-guessing). Thats good enough for me.

[Uraj45]

. . .your logic is a complete failure armlx. The role an office played cannot possibly have anything to do with alignment. . .

because they were assigned randomly with no regard to allignemnt

unvote ibaesha

I'm curious about recent events and I don't want a lynch pushed while I don't have time to think about stuff.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Yeah, i don't know where armlx got that logic. Up until the last 2 paragraphs it was at least somewhat logical, but that last stuff is ridiculous.

[spectrumvoid]

unvote, vote armIx

For his illogical posts. And for voting Iba by following MBL, when MBL himself didn't even vote. By the way, I don't really think MBL's cautiousness/not votingness is a scum-tell, because MBL usually gives long analysis and waits really long before voting, even though he will accuse someone before he votes.

I don't quite understand the reasons for Iba being scummy, and I think she's responed to the accusations against her (I've read her post 870). There's nothing wrong with picking on one lurker, and not the rest. After all, it is through applying pressure that we get lurkers to talk/replaced. With only one vote, spreading pressure all around is useless.

[mathcam]

Proposition 2: If there is a mafia or cult, then alignment swaps would allow the newly town player to out all their old scum partners.

Now think about this carefull -- were you told whether or not any of your partners were pro-town or not? If so, you got a different role than I did. If not, how could you possibly out any of your partners who are scum?

Cam

[Fuldu]

Proposition 2: If there is a mafia or cult, then alignment swaps would allow the newly town player to out all their old scum partners.

Now think about this carefull -- were you told whether or not any of your partners were pro-town or not? If so, you got a different role than I did. If not, how could you possibly out any of your partners who are scum?

Cam

That's not what I got out of what he was saying here. He's just arguing against alignment swapping along with the offices. Admittedly, it seems like this has been the consensus for a while now, but I don't think he was saying anything wrong (at least with that part). He was just saying that ibaesha is still the same alignment that she started as. The other part of his argument (which, as Uraj points out, relies on a non-randomized initial setup) is that someone who started out with a powerless office is more likely to be scum.

[armlx]

That's not what I got out of what he was saying here. He's just arguing against alignment swapping along with the offices. Admittedly, it seems like this has been the consensus for a while now, but I don't think he was saying anything wrong (at least with that part). He was just saying that ibaesha is still the same alignment that she started as. The other part of his argument (which, as Uraj points out, relies on a non-randomized initial setup) is that someone who started out with a powerless office is more likely to be scum.

If I had a giving a cookie smiley, it woudl go here.

[Yaw]

It's been quite long enough. It doesn't look like LoudmouthLee is going to get around to this. Save The Dragons replaces him.

[spectrumvoid]

Hi STD! I really should start a record of how many games we're in together. LML has disappeared from other mafia games too.

I'm a little confused over what Fuldu said. ArmIx commented on the roles independent of alignment thing (which we all knew about anyway). It's the second part of the argumnet where I'm lost.

[Fuldu]

Hi STD! I really should start a record of how many games we're in together. LML has disappeared from other mafia games too.

I'm a little confused over what Fuldu said. ArmIx commented on the roles independent of alignment thing (which we all knew about anyway). It's the second part of the argumnet where I'm lost.

Oh, the second part of his argument is rubbish. Uraj covered that. It assumes that the mod set up the scum roles for balance, when the sign-up thread pretty clearly indicated it was all going to be randomly assigned. I was just saying that the argument mathcam was making about the outing of scum by the masons wasn't fair.

[mathcam]

Okay, you're right about the part I quoted, but there's still a confusion there separate from the point you're making, I think. It's not clear to me that abilities can't come with an alignment, instead of just the role. These abilities would not be swapped along with role-swaps, so I think it's a bit of a stretch to conclude that Ibby's only chance of being scum is one with no abilities. That would make night-kills rather difficult.

On a separate note, there's been speculation that we have as many as 6 scum left, out of 15. That means that everyone should have a default "average scumminess" of 6/15, or 40%. If Ibby's clocking in at a mere 1/4 chance of being scum, she should probably be the least of your targets today.

LML - You're really starting to piss me off.

StD - welcome!

Spectrum - Surprisingly enough, it's armLx, not armIx.

Cam

[armlx]

Umm, yeah, I'm an idiot. I should have read the first post.....

[spectrumvoid]

My post where I apologized to armlx was eaten up!!! Where did it go???

unvote

Well, I guess I buy the confused part for now. I don't think mafia would say something like that knowing everyone would correct him (yup, wifom logic, but I didn't really have much on him anyway.)

[spectrumvoid]

Oh, and in my eaten up post, I also thanked fuldu for clarifying.

[MrBuddyLee]

HarryPotter, what do you think of bluemonick's actions in the days leading up to his lynch? Who do you think he was implicating, and do you think he was telling the truth about there being multiple scum groups?

Armlx, what do you think about Max's "un-Maxlike" actions this game. What do you think about the fact that scum didn't try to wagon him at all?